The Railways Bill - discussion about the legislation that will create Great British Railways

[YamYamDave]

Some useful draft policies for the Railways Bill released last week. The Long Term Strategy for Rail being particularly interesting:

Policy papers and consultations

Find policy papers and consultations from government

www.gov.uk

 

[StephenHunter]

Some useful draft policies for the Railways Bill released last week. The Long Term Strategy for Rail being particularly interesting:

Policy papers and consultations

Find policy papers and consultations from government

www.gov.uk

Good luck with fleet standardisation - BR never exactly achieved it the first time!

 

[Snow1964]

A batch of new papers have been uploaded 9th October
(not looked at them yet)

Fares - House of Lords Factsheet

Fares: House of Lords Railways Bill fact sheet

www.gov.uk

fair and Open Retail market

Supporting a fair and open rail retail market: House of Lords Railways Bill factsheet

www.gov.uk

There is also summary page with lots of other Railways Bill factsheets (but I think they are not new)

Railways Bill

Factsheets and links to information relating to the Railways Bill.

www.gov.uk

 

[Watershed]

Notable that they are supposedly going to be making sale fares available to all retailers:

This principle will mean, for example, that GBR will not be able to run exclusive fare promotions that customers of other retailers cannot purchase, as train operating companies historically have.

Let's see if that actually happens. Experience shows us that the TOCs are very keen to limit things to their own platform.

The section on fares "reform" contains the usual made-up arguments, for example:

regulation can make it harder to tackle anomalies such as single fares which can be only 10p less than a return fare

(Fares regulation limits increases, not reductions. So this is only an issue if they want to increase return fares in order to tackle this sort of "anomaly"!)

And it gives us a very clear indication of the increased fares and reduced flexibility we can look forward to:

Longer-distance and more discretionary markets could allow greater pricing flexibility, provided passengers continue to have access to affordable options, such as cheaper advance fares.

...

Greater GBR operational ownership of fares should accelerate the ability to deliver reforms such as fares simplification. This is needed to deliver pay-as-you-go (PAYG) schemes and ensure GBR can align demand and pricing to make best use of the capacity

...

For example, changes to fares are necessary to deliver simple PAYG ticketing, where passengers pay for the journeys they actually make. They are also needed to move away from fares based on traditional peak times on long-distance routes that do not reflect actual demand patterns.

I'm very much reading that as the government being in favour of further abolitions of Off-Peak fares

 

[Djgr]

Notable that they are supposedly going to be making sale fares available to all retailers:


Let's see if that actually happens. Experience shows us that the TOCs are very keen to limit things to their own platform.

The section on fares "reform" contains the usual made-up arguments, for example:

(Fares regulation limits increases, not reductions. So this is only an issue if they want to increase return fares in order to tackle this sort of "anomaly"!)

And it gives us a very clear indication of the increased fares and reduced flexibility we can look forward to:

...

...

I'm very much reading that as the government being in favour of further abolitions of Off-Peak fares

On the other hand, perhaps it is to stop operators such as Avanti carrying loads of empty space until off peak kicks in?

 

[StephenHunter]

On the other hand, perhaps it is to stop operators such as Avanti carrying loads of empty space until off peak kicks in?

Avanti ceases to exist soon.

 

[Djgr]

Avanti ceases to exist soon.

OK. In clarification of the point.

GBR will not price in a way so that trains run in peak hours with loads of empty space (as operators such as Avanti currently do).

 

[Watershed]

On the other hand, perhaps it is to stop operators such as Avanti carrying loads of empty space until off peak kicks in?

There's nothing to stop them from reducing the ridiculous Anytime fares which do the very opposite of reducing overcrowding. Of course they're not going to do so because it would reduce their opportunity to cash in on time sensitive commuters and business travellers.

 

[JamesT]

OK. In clarification of the point.

GBR will not price in a way so that trains run in peak hours with loads of empty space (as operators such as Avanti currently do).

That’s quite a bold statement. Do you have a source for that change in approach?

GBR will almost certainly be under the same government funding constraints as the operators are today. Maximising revenue versus expenditure will be the name of the game. A few passengers willing to pay peak fares can be more lucrative than a trainload on cheap off peaks.

 

[Djgr]

That’s quite a bold statement. Do you have a source for that change in approach?

GBR will almost certainly be under the same government funding constraints as the operators are today. Maximising revenue versus expenditure will be the name of the game. A few passengers willing to pay peak fares can be more lucrative than a trainload on cheap off peaks.

It is just my take on what the statement:

They are also needed to move away from fares based on traditional peak times on long-distance routes that do not reflect actual demand patterns

could mean.

 

[KNN]

It is just my take on what the statement:

They are also needed to move away from fares based on traditional peak times on long-distance routes that do not reflect actual demand patterns

could mean.

In fairness, Avanti have already started this approach by dropping peak on a Friday.

 

[AlterEgo]

In fairness, Avanti have already started this approach by dropping peak on a Friday.

Virgin Trains started this with the afternoon peak so it isn't a new thing.

 

[JamesT]

It is just my take on what the statement:

They are also needed to move away from fares based on traditional peak times on long-distance routes that do not reflect actual demand patterns

could mean.

I think the more likely route is to look at what LNER have been doing (who have been nationalised for 8 years now), and extrapolate that across the network.