I wouldn't even say the ramps, I'd want to allow passengers to actually be able to wait on the platform even if the train isn't ready yet. I've never seen Liverpool Lime Street close off the platform, they either just let people on, or keep the doors locked until it's ready. But in Euston it genuinely feels like a criminal offence to even hang around on the ramp. It feels more like an international airport than a public transport hub.
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Euston £50m upgrade
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It was designed to work like that when airports were considered the height of modernity, to be fair, and during that period when hiding the planes was the thing to do (that too no longer is).
Platforms do get closed off at Lime St, presumably you do mean 6-10 as they aren't barriered, but only for large events. Usually managed by TOC revenue and BTP teams.
It's probably down to passenger numbers - for example;
LNWR Euston - Crewe regularly has 400-500 passengers boarding
LNWR Liverpool - New St regularly has 150-180 boarding.
Now granted, the trains are longer for Euston services than Liverpool, and would hopefully spread out down the platforms, the reality is both stations have big issues with crowding at the concourse end of platforms, making it difficult for those departing the train to get off and subsequently leave the platform.
This is something I see every weekend at Lime St for instance, and something that I'm glad I don't have to see at Euston (other than when platforms are announced ahead of the incoming train service which has happened before and is a very dangerous situation)
This is true, and it was very much reflective of a society where politicians didn't understand or care to understand public transit that wasn't cars or aviation. But given that Euston won't be getting rebuilt for today's needs I think the very least that could be done is allow passengers to disperse more around the station including waiting on the platform. Boarding ten minutes before departure would feel a lot less chaotic than it would from the concourse.
Yes, I did mean platforms 6-10. Quite often when I've gone there, be it either passing through, meeting someone or getting a train, I've never seen anyone be prevented from walking down the platforms beyond a ticket inspection. Even platforms 1-5 with the ticket barriers people are free to wait on the platforms even when the train isn't ready to go yet (and sometimes when the train hasn't even arrived). Lime Street is a small station as far as terminus stations go, but it's very much operated like a railway station where you can walk in and get your train no hassle, unlike Euston which was rebuilt to work like an airport and still does to this day.
ScottGallagher
Member
- Joined
- 9 Dec 2012
- Messages
- 847
Avanti do have roving on board cleaners/litter pickers during the journey for that reason and so did Virgin before that and i think even BR before that !!
With the litany of excuses about why passengers have to be kept on the concourse until the last second, one wonders how through stations that are major termini, such as Leeds or Newcastle, seem to manage without issue.
It seems the principal Euston issue is about management of resources, something which a different management could be expected to address. The quoted new expenditure may seem attractive, but Euston really needs new procedures, rather than having all the money scooped up by suppliers of assets, whose salesmen must now be licking their lips at what they can flog there, regardless of whether it makes any improvement to things or not. One is reminded of airports which take 30 minutes to get through security while five of the eight security checkpoints are unstaffed, coming up with a solution - to buy more checkpoints.
Back at Euston, new seats by the truckload are possibly attractive, we will have to trust they are not sited somewhere where you can't see the departure screens. Management of the train cleaning staff so they are ready as the train arrives rather than reporting job completion 5 minutes before it leaves again, and similar issues, do not really seem to need £50m to handle.
It seems the principal Euston issue is about management of resources, something which a different management could be expected to address. The quoted new expenditure may seem attractive, but Euston really needs new procedures, rather than having all the money scooped up by suppliers of assets, whose salesmen must now be licking their lips at what they can flog there, regardless of whether it makes any improvement to things or not. One is reminded of airports which take 30 minutes to get through security while five of the eight security checkpoints are unstaffed, coming up with a solution - to buy more checkpoints.
Back at Euston, new seats by the truckload are possibly attractive, we will have to trust they are not sited somewhere where you can't see the departure screens. Management of the train cleaning staff so they are ready as the train arrives rather than reporting job completion 5 minutes before it leaves again, and similar issues, do not really seem to need £50m to handle.
If Euston changed to encouraging waiting on the platform all that would happen on the forum is all the complaints about having to wait on the concourse would be replaced with Manchester Victoria / Birmingham style complaints about the platforms.
It's not that bad a station, but any "improvement" plan isn't going to do much when it's constrained by having a lot of semi-umderground platforms in a straight line with relatively restricted access in a corridor in front of them. And that's not getting changed without rebuilding that'd cost a lot more.
It's not that bad a station, but any "improvement" plan isn't going to do much when it's constrained by having a lot of semi-umderground platforms in a straight line with relatively restricted access in a corridor in front of them. And that's not getting changed without rebuilding that'd cost a lot more.
Or add some detail units, drives me mad, we've lost:
Boots
Wh Smith
M+s food (albeit smaller than the one left)
Costa
And outside
All Bar One
Caffe nero
Original pret
Ed's diner
Possibly others I've forgotten! When will they add more units - it's crying out for a Greggs. Must be the only central London station without one now? St. Pancras has 3 and another at Kings Cross!
Mikey C
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 8,287
Euston has loads of space on its platforms. And with so many passengers having reserved seating, it would be so much more convenient to be able to stand outside Carriage H in advance, even if you can't board yet. Indeed it's the seat reservations which would ensure a nice spread of people along the platform, rather than bunching at one end, especially as Standard is further down the platform anyway.
When did Caffe Nero go? I was in it a couple of weeks ago.
The reason the units on the concourse have gone is to create space for waiting passengers - of which there are rather more than 20 years ago.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I guess Nero suffered because people didn't walk past it any more - it doesn't even look like you can go that side now.
When was this? I walked past it last Friday!
The Nero branch at Euston is still there, next to Sainsbury's. I used it yesterday to buy a coffee before getting a train.
Removing the retail units from the main concourse and opening it up was a good thing. Additional units were added on the relatively recently installed mezzanine.
Removing the retail units from the main concourse and opening it up was a good thing. Additional units were added on the relatively recently installed mezzanine.
Having used Euston today, it seems that they've already sorted the last minute platform announcements. Trains were getting prepared and boarding started about 20 minutes before departures which I think is quite reasonable. That said I do still think the station would benefit from improved spacing on the concourse and the separation of foot traffic for inbound and outbound passengers even though £50m probably won't cover either of them completely.
I should have explained prooperly. There's still Nero by Sainsbury's. However there used to be 2 branches, the other was where benches etc now are, there was a few units with Nero, Pret, Ed's Diner and maybe another.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
I think that there was a Patisserie Valerie at one time as well.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
There was. The company went into administration and closed many units. I think they have something like 5 or 6 units left!
How would you even do that within the confines of the existing NR & underground structures?
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Tezza1978
Member
Indeed but crucially smaller queues than the Starbucks on the mezzanine (and better coffee too!)
Its clearly very popular with HS2 contractors too and rightly so.
Within the confines of the existing design, sadly not so much beyond creating a few new exits such as one to Eversholt Street. Even creating a little more space such as cutting back the ticket office might be able to spread out the crowd a bit more so that passengers walking through the concourse don't get so tightly squeezed in with those waiting and staring up at the board. If a rebuild or extension isn't on the table, repurposing the station like this is about as good as you can get.
CheshireCrusty
Member
- Joined
- 6 Feb 2014
- Messages
- 101
What about putting the new seats on or over the platforms?
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How far towards a thermonuclear bomb does £50m get us, to just raze Euston and start all over again? 
To be honest personally I'd be up for evicting most of the remaining ground floor retail units and the needlessly large ticket office, and placing the retail somewhere else if space could be found.
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Add retail units? Is there a way to do that without losing concourse space, and without the retail unit entrances interfering with existing passenger flow?
To be honest personally I'd be up for evicting most of the remaining ground floor retail units and the needlessly large ticket office, and placing the retail somewhere else if space could be found.
If I had a couple of billion pounds, I'd love to see a Eurostar style setup where the waiting could be done below (or above as you suggest) the platforms, with entry and exit passengers segregated. However that's definitely getting into "full rebuild" territory and not the £50m allocated here...
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Two Neros seemed a bit ridiculous. There was a time you could stand on the corner of Euston Road and Tottenham Court Road/Hampstead Road, and you were within 500m of three Neros, three Starbucks, three Sainsbury's, two Costas, three Itsu...
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Having been through Euston quite a bit recently I think the best thing they could do for now is to convert the lower floor of the podium office building into a space for food/coffee shops/seating with some new escalators added to take you up there. With this done you could then remove all the existing units outside (Nandos, Pret) and the mezzanine to really open up the square outside and flood the concourse with light again.
boiledbeans2
Member
If they won't be rebuilding the LU entrance/exit, then my suggestion would be to shelter the short distance between the LU and NR entrance/exits.