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I've got a few days in Rotterdam coming up, but I was thinking of hopping across to Belgium on a EuroCity push/pull and spending a day doing electric locos, making use of the SNCB Train+ product.
I've been asking AI (specifically just using Google's proprietary LLM) to assist, and pointed it to www beluxtrains.net specifically to identify an itinerary of loco hauled services across Belgium with a cost limit of €75.
There was a bit of refinement needed (it directed me to the standard multi, which was discontinued this time last year, for example!), and it would be excessive to repeat all the prompts used in the various iterations of this here, but it has generated an interesting looking itinerary that I'd welcome any views on.
LEG 1: 07:10 – 09:17 | The Cross-Border Opener (EuroCity)
Route: Rotterdam Centraal ➔ Brussels-Midi (EC 9212)
Stock: Traxx Locomotive + SNCB I11 coaches in push-pull setup.
LEG 2: 09:57 – 10:56 | The High-Speed Incline Run
Route: Brussels-Midi ➔ Liège-Guillemins (IC-01 / Train 510)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron + I11 or M7 coaches blasting along High-Speed Line 2.
LEG 3: 11:17 – 11:39 | The Eastern Border Hop
Route: Liège-Guillemins ➔ Welkenraedt (IC-12 / Train 410)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron + M6 double-deckers.
LEG 4: 12:21 – 12:43 | The Return Mainline Chase
Route: Welkenraedt ➔ Liège-Guillemins (IC-12 / Train 433)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron + M6 double-deckers.
LEG 5: 13:17 – 14:23 | The Deep Ardennes Climb
Route: Liège-Guillemins ➔ Gouvy (IC-33 / Train 114)
Stock: Heavy Class 13 locomotive + I11 express coaches.
The Experience: This is arguably the finest locomotive run in Belgium. The Class 13 handles the punishing gradients and tight, winding valleys of Line 42 up toward the Luxembourg border.
LEG 6: 15:47 – 16:58 | RARE PEAK SERVICE: The Commuter Heavyweight (P-Train)
Route: Gouvy ➔ Liège-Guillemins (P-Train 8465)
Stock: Class 13 locomotive propelling or pulling a heavy rush-hour rake of M6 double-deckers.
The Experience: A rare, peak-only P-service designed to flush students and commuters out of the Ardennes hills back into the industrial hub of Liège.
LEG 7: 17:15 – 18:03 | RARE PEAK SERVICE: The Walloon Evening Escape (P-Train)
Route: Liège-Guillemins ➔ Namur (P-Train 8215)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron or Class 13 + M6 double-deck coaches.
The Experience: This train runs right along the Meuse Valley (Line 125) at the absolute height of the evening rush hour, packed to the brim and running at full power.
LEG 8: The Night-Cap EuroCity Home
20:13 – 22:15 | Namur ➔ Brussels-Central ➔ Rotterdam Centraal (EC 9273)
Stock: Traxx Locomotive + SNCB I11 coaches in push-pull setup.
I've got a few days in Rotterdam coming up, but I was thinking of hopping across to Belgium on a EuroCity push/pull and spending a day doing electric locos, making use of the SNCB Train+ product.
I've been asking AI to assist, and pointed it to belux.net specifically, and there was a bit of refinement needed (it directed me to the standard multi, which was discontinued this time last year, for example!) but it has come up with an interesting looking itinerary that I'd welcome any views on.
LEG 1: 07:10 – 09:17 | The Cross-Border Opener (EuroCity)
Route: Rotterdam Centraal ➔ Brussels-Midi (EC 9212)
Stock: Traxx Locomotive + SNCB I11 coaches in push-pull setup.
LEG 2: 09:57 – 10:56 | The High-Speed Incline Run
Route: Brussels-Midi ➔ Liège-Guillemins (IC-01 / Train 510)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron + I11 or M7 coaches blasting along High-Speed Line 2.
LEG 3: 11:17 – 11:39 | The Eastern Border Hop
Route: Liège-Guillemins ➔ Welkenraedt (IC-12 / Train 410)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron + M6 double-deckers.
LEG 4: 12:21 – 12:43 | The Return Mainline Chase
Route: Welkenraedt ➔ Liège-Guillemins (IC-12 / Train 433)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron + M6 double-deckers.
LEG 5: 13:17 – 14:23 | The Deep Ardennes Climb
Route: Liège-Guillemins ➔ Gouvy (IC-33 / Train 114)
Stock: Heavy Class 13 locomotive + I11 express coaches.
The Experience: This is arguably the finest locomotive run in Belgium. The Class 13 handles the punishing gradients and tight, winding valleys of Line 42 up toward the Luxembourg border.
LEG 6: 15:47 – 16:58 | RARE PEAK SERVICE: The Commuter Heavyweight (P-Train)
Route: Gouvy ➔ Liège-Guillemins (P-Train 8465)
Stock: Class 13 locomotive propelling or pulling a heavy rush-hour rake of M6 double-deckers.
The Experience: A rare, peak-only P-service designed to flush students and commuters out of the Ardennes hills back into the industrial hub of Liège.
LEG 7: 17:15 – 18:03 | RARE PEAK SERVICE: The Walloon Evening Escape (P-Train)
Route: Liège-Guillemins ➔ Namur (P-Train 8215)
Stock: Class 18 Vectron or Class 13 + M6 double-deck coaches.
The Experience: This train runs right along the Meuse Valley (Line 125) at the absolute height of the evening rush hour, packed to the brim and running at full power.
LEG 8: The Night-Cap EuroCity Home
20:13 – 22:15 | Namur ➔ Brussels-Central ➔ Rotterdam Centraal (EC 9273)
Stock: Traxx Locomotive + SNCB I11 coaches in push-pull setup.
At first glance, that looks like a decent day, and it seems to check out from a cursory scan of SNCB's timetables, but it's AI generated, so some verification by a human would be reassuring please!
AI is notoriously bad at things like this. Information is often outdated, sometimes multiple years.
Some examples:
IC-1 doesn't have I11 anymore. Only M7 and 1 I10 carriage.
Liège-Gouvy-Luxembourg is a Desiro. The train number is also from a very long time ago.
P8465 doesn't exist anymore since that line has hourly trains.
P8215 doesn't exist.
IC 2139 exists but leaves Namur at 18:16 and consists of a class 13 with M7. IC 2439 leaves Namur at 18:44 with AM96.
AI is notoriously bad at things like this. Information is often outdated, sometimes multiple years.
Some examples:
IC-1 doesn't have I11 anymore. Only M7 and 1 I10 carriage.
Liège-Gouvy-Luxembourg is a Desiro. The train number is also from a very long time ago.
P8465 doesn't exist anymore since that line has hourly trains.
P8215 doesn't exist.
IC 2139 exists but leaves Namur at 18:16 and consists of a class 13 with M7. IC 2439 leaves Namur at 18:44 with AM96.
Thank you. 50% of the services not existing or their consists incorrectly looked up on beluxtrains.net isn't terribly impressive from AI, although perhaps a better LLM might perform better (I have a friend with a Claude subscription, so I may ask him).
An improvement to my prompts will probably also help (although I didn't expect to have to specify to use only this year's current timetable, for example), but it's clear a very close manual check is going to be needed.
I don't mind it getting the stock wrong on a loco hauled service (although that's still a pretty straightforward look-up), but trains not running or being a bloody Desiro or a Toilet Seat is pretty poor.
The SNCB journey planner also gives train formations so long as you aren't looking too far in the future (they seem to appear a few weeks before travel).
I do not think they should be taken too seriously though. Unless they really are running trains with four M7 power cars, two at each end. Plus a locomotive.
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To be fair, we tried Claude pro at lunchtime today, and, as you'd expect for £20 a month, it is appreciably better, and the consists in particular look identical to beluxtrains.net, which the others failed hopelessly to do.
I'm just checking through it manually and will post it later. 9 moves excluding the EuroCity push/pull Traxx journeys at the start and end of the day for €78.60 with the train+ monthly sub included. Some nice long runs where I max out on the €14 fare as well.
It's a bit disappointing that the initial results are so poor, as it is just lookups and cross referencing, which is what AI is ideal for. Searching through data and applying some relatively simple rules much faster and accurately than a human can. But, apparently not......
AI slop indeed.
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Here we go again. I've checked this one, and it seems to work. Claude even asked me nicely if I'd like some lunch in Namur and dinner in Brussels. How thoughtful of him!
I have a feeling I may get the same class 13 and 18/19 twice, but I can live with that. They're locos! No M4 stock though......an opening window would have been nice, but I'm not sure how many of it is left these days.
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This one I have checked myself and looks alright, and has been adjusted to me now staying near Lelylaan. 6 pairs and 2 single locos, and the total cost is about €109, or €7 per loco.
