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You failed to mention the competitive advantage of the shortest turn up and go overall journey time.
I can think of several cases where including the average wait for a low frequency train, completely negates the faster journey time over a more frequent bus service, even when it's a standard all stops double decker.
This is no more obvious than on sparsely served rural rail lines, where with some stations not served by every train, you can possibly be waiting maybe 2 hours, so on average an hour, but where decent A roads and with far more decent sized villages that can be served with central stops, are allowing buses to be run at a frequency as good as 15 minutes.
It's so stark, it's as if Beeching never even happened, and the railway is still the absurd, anachronistic, throwback mode from a different era, where you expect to be sharing a carriage with milk churns or even livestock, and closure is expected any day now.
The fact the train is often the budget option too, preferred by commuters and shoppers but not travellers or tourists, is just absurd as well.
Also locational comparisons. Leicester to Loughborough by train is only 10-mins whilst the Skylink bus takes 30-mins but neither station, particularly Loughborough, is central to the focus of the town so once you add the travel time to/from the station the bus gets very competitive centre to centre. Then your frequency comparison also kicks in as the Skylink is every 15-mins and whilst the trains appear to have 3 per hour (one of which is all stations and takes 25-mins) they aren't evenly spread and seem to all be concentrated into a 20-min period. The Red Arrow Derby to Nottingham will be even more pronounced due to the remoteness of Derby Station in particular given that the actual times are similar.
The 825 also takes 45 minutes from Harrogate to York on a Summer Sunday & Bank Holiday. However, the journey from York to Harrogate takes 56 minutes. The 74 takes 52 minutes from York to Harrogate as well.
Most people use the 74 between York & Harrogate to connect with the 59 but if you're travelling to Acomb, Holgate or Rawcliffe, journey times favour the bus even more so.
I think it's worth considering the time to get from station to centre.
For example Skylink Debry - Leicester to Loughborough - is 30 minutes by bus and 10 minutes by train. However, it's a 10/15 minute walk at each end so the bus (£3) is quite competitive compared to the train (£8) and take you directly to the centre of each place.
** Sorry, just noticed Dwarfer1979 posted the exact same thing.
I think it's worth considering the time to get from station to centre.
For example Skylink Debry - Leicester to Loughborough - is 30 minutes by bus and 10 minutes by train. However, it's a 10/15 minute walk at each end so the bus (£3) is quite competitive compared to the train (£8) and take you directly to the centre of each place.
** Sorry, just noticed Dwarfer1979 posted the exact same thing.
In the example in the original post (Farnham to Guildford), the train is only a minute quicker than the bus but the bus stops in central Farnham. Therefore for journeys to/from Farnham town centre, the bus becomes the quicker option when you factor in the additional walk from Farnham station to the town centre.
But on the flip side, the majority of Farnham residents probably live south of the railway in the more densely built up residential area of Farnham, Wrecclesham and Shortheath, with the town centre to the north. So for Farnham residents travelling to/from Guildford, then walking into town for the bus would flip the situation to become a noticeably longer than the train.
So in some cases it’s probably hard to say which is categorically the better option.
The Brighton and Hove buses no. 12 takes 37-40 mins from Brighton station to Newhaven Town station, and a further 14-15 on to Seaford town centre (so 51-55 mins total).
The Train takes 35 mins from Brighton to Newhaven Town, and a further 8 on to Seaford (so 43 mins total). Given the first 10 mins of the bus journey is from Brighton station to the Seafront, if your ultimate destination is on the seafront, the bus would be appreciably quicker.
Although the 12 does continue on to Eastbourne, it ceases to be competitive against direct trains from Brighton.
X10 Telford to Shrewsbury, quite a popular service everytime I use it aswell despite the longer travel time, only £3 on the X10 compared to the train being anywhere between £5.50 and £7.70
I've been on it a few times where there is standing space only as it a popular service, and most times I use it is fairly busy.
X10 Telford to Shrewsbury, quite a popular service everytime I use it aswell despite the longer travel time, only £3 on the X10 compared to the train being anywhere between £5.50 and £7.70
I've been on it a few times where there is standing space only as it a popular service, and most times I use it is fairly busy.
The morning journey from Madeley on college days is full and you can be turned away from it if you want to board at Lawley depending on the day, despite using a double decker.
The morning journeys on weekdays until just after 10 can be busy as some of the earlier buses get full and college students have to use later buses and be late for classes, however from Shrewsbury just board at the bus station, from Telford you'll just have to wish for the best, outside of peak times it is fine and I've always gotten a seat too outside peak times.
And then from Shrewsbury the 14:05 until the 16:45 can be busy and get full, the 18:15 doesn't get full.
On Saturdays it is fine and it does not run on Sundays.
Also be careful not to board any of the short journeys to London Road or Weeping Cross.
The following journeys (usually) run a double decker Monday - Friday just for your convenience.
The Madeley service only runs on college days.
7:22 from Madeley to Shrewsbury
8:50 Shrewsbury to London Road
15:15 Telford to Shrewsbury
16:05 Shrewsbury to Priorslee via Telford
17:02 Priorslee to Shrewsbury (departs Telford Bus Station at 17:25)
The last bus of the night from Telford is 17:25 Mon-Fri and Saturdays at 17:15.
The last bus of the night from Shrewsbury is 18:15 Mon-Fri and 18:05 on Saturdays.
Practically all Highland to City services (Glasgow-Oban, Glasgow-Fort William/ch. for Mallaig, Inverness-Kyle and Inverness-Wick) compete with and run faster than the trains, as well as being used more so by locals due to reliability issues on the single track lines, though congestion at Loch Lomond/Great Western is also an issue for the Glasgow services.
The Kyle service is also dependent on bus connections from Skye.
Chelmsford to Braintree springs to mind. The bus is only about 10 minutes slower than the train and it does go right into Braintree town centre and out the other side.
I'm not sure if Burnley to Manchester has been mentioned.
The X43 Witchway takes roughly between 1hr10mins and 1hr20mins from Burnley Bus Station to central Manchester, while the train takes about 50 mins to Manchester Victoria.
It's worth mentioning that the peak express departures get you into Chorlton St Coach Station in around 1hr 20mins though, which is on the south side of Manchester city centre for those who don't know and about another 10 mins walk/tram from Victoria.
The bus is certainly quicker than the train at the moment, as Huddersfield is closed. Even outwith the current blockade the Bradford train isn't running due to the lack of useable platforms at Huddersfield!
When things reopen fully, I agree that the journey times to both Halifax and Bradford will remain competitive due to the rather circuitous route of the railway... if and when Elland opens the bus will be even more competitive, especially if a Deighton call is added too. For a while my commute was from Denby Dale to Bradford, and poor connections at Huddersfield between the Penistone line and the Bradford train meant taking buses all the way was quicker overall compared to taking the train all the way.
I'm not sure if Burnley to Manchester has been mentioned.
The X43 Witchway takes roughly between 1hr10mins and 1hr20mins from Burnley Bus Station to central Manchester, while the train takes about 50 mins to Manchester Victoria.
It's worth mentioning that the peak express departures get you into Chorlton St Coach Station in around 1hr 20mins though, which is on the south side of Manchester city centre for those who don't know and about another 10 mins walk/tram from Victoria.
I thought of that but imo the buses tend to get bogged down going through Prestwich. Plus the final stop is no longer convenient for Piccadilly station.
I thought of that but imo the buses tend to get bogged down going through Prestwich. Plus the final stop is no longer convenient for Piccadilly station.
They do sometimes in peak traffic, but then you have the option of jumping on the Metrolink at Prestwich if the traffic is particularly bad that day.
The express departures still serve the convenient stop for Piccadilly that you mention
