Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[318266]

Corrosion worsens with age and older vehicles in a fleet tend to see less spend on such matters. Caveat emptor!

I am aware of the concept of entropy. However, the coastal environment applies mostly to one particular depot in which the vehicles are generally kept inside for most of the time, negating the salty sea air that would generally condemn such vehicles. Plus, most routes are not exactly coastal - most go west to east, or north to south, across the centre of the city - avoiding the sea air for most of the vehicle's mileage.

 

[Lothianbus703]

Indeed, after 16 or 17 years in a coastal environment, potential buyers are likely to be very wary of purchasing used B9s, because of corrosion issues. Not to mention poor mpg, and very expensive Volvo spare part prices.

Lothian buses have been purchased quickly second hand for years.
I dont think this time anything will change.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I am aware of the concept of entropy. However, the coastal environment applies mostly to one particular depot in which the vehicles are generally kept inside for most of the time, negating the salty sea air that would generally condemn such vehicles. Plus, most routes are not exactly coastal - most go west to east, or north to south, across the centre of the city - avoiding the sea air for most of the vehicle's mileage.

It’s a hopeless argument I’ve heard time and time before, yet nobody can prove it.

As you say it’s completely down to how something is looked after. I’ve seen plenty of vehicles from down south in far worse condition than something up here.

If you do nothing, of course it will rot. That’s why you look after something in the first place…

Lothian buses have been purchased quickly second hand for years.
I dont think this time anything will change.

Absolutely it won’t change. Lothian have some of the best maintained vehicles around. That’s why they’re snapped up that quickly.

The only ones that struggled to sell were the 7900’s and that was purely down to the fact they’re totally non standard for the UK, but they still managed to sell.

I’m quite sure if the user’s concerns were that much of an issue in reality, all ex Scottish stock would go straight to scrap.

 

[ScotRail158725]

The only ones that struggled to sell were the 7900’s and that was purely down to the fact they’re totally non standard for the UK, but they still managed to sell.

How many have actually sold if they haven’t all been?

 

[Bus9120UK]

How many have actually sold if they haven’t all been?

All of 1-20 that weren't withdrawn due to fire damage. Three are in reserve, 34, 35 and 49. There is a chance bus 31 (which has just returned) will replace another, such as 21, but it's not yet clear if this will or has happened.

 

[jacoblikesbus]

482 is on the 3 has it went on loan

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Had the privilege of trying out the new 28 yesterday, full route from Gilmerton to Bellevue, it was probably the quietest bus journey I ever had (untill it hit King's Building) not a single person got on from Gilmerton to King's Building, was a relatively fast route but I do hope the journey I took was not a reflection of what the demand is like any other time, it's nice seeing another service along the likes of Causewayside and Kirk Brae/Lasswade Road.

 

[slee]

How should we expect services to be disrupted from resurfacing work on Craigmillar Park Road?

Minto Street, Mayfield Gardens and Craigmillar Park Improvements

Information about the roadworks taking place on Minto Street, Mayfield Gardens and Craigmillar Park, Edinbugh.

www.edinburgh.gov.uk

 

[Lothian285]

It appears that Lothian may have sold a couple of their Routemasters recently as RM143 and RM235 do not feature in the latest official fleet list. I wonder if the remaining six will also be sold?

 

[jacoblikesbus]

its been rumored that once 1126-40 have had been repainted and refurbed they are apparently heading to longstone can anyone confirm

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Was discussing this with a pal of mine and it had me thinking, and apologies if this comes out of left field here, what are the absolute chances of Lothian ever serving Linlithgow again? Lothian Country seems to finally be in a sort of good position right now, and I know McGills still run the X38, but it's been at least 7 years since Lothian first tried running out that far west, and unless you count the brief Christmas tender of the (231) almost 6 years since they last set foot in the village.

Since they extended the X19 out to Livingston that blows any chance of that service getting tweaked, but maybe a local service could work? I know they don't have to cover every corner of West Lothian but Linlithgow is a pretty big area that it makes me wonder if the Lothian bosses ever think of heading back that way.

 

[Lx008]

Was discussing this with a pal of mine and it had me thinking, and apologies if this comes out of left field here, what are the absolute chances of Lothian ever serving Linlithgow again? Lothian Country seems to finally be in a sort of good position right now, and I know McGills still run the X38, but it's been at least 7 years since Lothian first tried running out that far west, and unless you count the brief Christmas tender of the (231) almost 6 years since they last set foot in the village.

Since they extended the X19 out to Livingston that blows any chance of that service getting tweaked, but maybe a local service could work? I know they don't have to cover every corner of West Lothian but Linlithgow is a pretty big area that it makes me wonder if the Lothian bosses ever think of heading back that way.

The train is just too good of an alternative for an Edinburgh route to make any sense, and if there already is a local service in place I’d consider it very unlikely that LCB would decide to go out there, the dead mileage alone would be a killer

 

[overthewater]

I think it will get worse IF the so called Winchburgh Train station ever get built. I think more people would agree that Lothian would be better off getting the rest of West Lothian back up to a decent standard before having new adventures.

 

[DunsBus]

Lothian going back out to Linlithgow is very unlikely. The EX2 and X38 both died a death and, as others have said, there is already an excellent train service plus the McGill's X38.

That particular bus has long since departed.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think it will get worse IF the so called Winchburgh Train station ever get built. I think more people would agree that Lothian would be better off getting the rest of West Lothian back up to a decent standard before having new adventures.

For what it's worth they seem to have the right idea with the X19 currently, but only time will tell if it pays off.

The train is just too good of an alternative for an Edinburgh route to make any sense, and if there already is a local service in place I’d consider it very unlikely that LCB would decide to go out there, the dead mileage alone would be a killer

Is Linlithgow that much further from Livingston than say Fauldhouse?, from my understanding I think Linlithgow is closer, but I know distance doesn't measure demand.

If Lothian were to take on the 31 route hypothetically, (presumly under a new route number) I think maybe that would be the only shot.

Lothian going back out to Linlithgow is very unlikely. The EX2 and X38 both died a death and, as others have said, there is already an excellent train service plus the McGill's X38.

That particular bus has long since departed.

To be fair those two aren't the best examples I can think of, the X38 was definitely not the result Lothian were expecting I think, and don't even get me started on the Green Arrow disaster.

 

[mb88]

I think there’s a lot more needs to be done with the existing services before there can be any chance of looking at Linlithgow again. The X27/X28 could do with being upped to half hourly each to make a combined 15 minute service. The West Lothian locals again up to half hourly. The 43 could easily sustain a 15 minute service, with all the new houses being built in Queensferry. Not sure how Linlithgow could be worked into it, if I’m honest. As others have said, the X19 being extended there is not an option now, and I’m not sure there would be enough demand for a local service to other parts of West Lothian that isn’t already covered by the 31. Dead mileage shouldn’t be an issue though as buses already run empty to and from Queensferry, the Gyle, Fauldhouse etc.

 

[davp]

Is Linlithgow that much further from Livingston than say Fauldhouse?, from my understanding I think Linlithgow is closer, but I know distance doesn't measure demand.

Not really, but the run out to Fauldhouse goes through several areas of demand whichever way you do it. The Linlithgow train service is considerably better than from Fauldhouse. I suspect demand from Linlithgow to Livingston via bus isn't great.

 

[sng7]

The other problem getting from Livingston to Linlithgow (or vice versa) is the roads. Although its not far as the crow flies the roads between are not great (and most are not ones I would reccomend for regular large buses) such that one of the better options to do it is probably going via the M8 to Newbridge and then the M9 which is a fair bit of dead mileage.

 

[JKP]

SD Travel 31 runs hourly between Linlithgow and Livingston so cannot see why on earth Lothian would even consider putting on a service themselves.

 

[overthewater]

SD Travel 31 runs hourly between Linlithgow and Livingston so cannot see why on earth Lothian would even consider putting on a service themselves.

Your mist one important key fact. West Lothian council pays for the 31.

The Fastest bus ever between Linlithgow and Livingston was 15 years ago when First had a 47 every 2 hours from Bo'ness

 

[Busman757]

For what it's worth they seem to have the right idea with the X19 currently, but only time will tell if it pays off.



Is Linlithgow that much further from Livingston than say Fauldhouse?, from my understanding I think Linlithgow is closer, but I know distance doesn't measure demand.

If Lothian were to take on the 31 route hypothetically, (presumly under a new route number) I think maybe that would be the only shot.



To be fair those two aren't the best examples I can think of, the X38 was definitely not the result Lothian were expecting I think, and don't even get me started on the Green Arrow disaster.

In the weeks before Covid, the EX2 was starting to pick up, especially at peak times. The move to St Andrews Square helped massively. I know this as I used to drive it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2026 ==

As for Linlithgow, they could potentially extend the 43 once and hour via Newton and Springfield to Linlithgow Bridge. However as others have said the Train from Linlithgow is far superior. What might make it work would probably the Scot Gov’s £2 capped fare program.

 

[paravostok]

Linlithgow seems like an obvious gap but as others have said they already have a service, including to Edinburgh, alongside the train, and even Winchburgh seems like it will be borderline once its station opens, Linlithgow is that but if it was far further, had services to other regional hubs (like Falkirk) and

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think the only chance of Lothian returning to Linlithgow is if either the X38 is cut back (very unlikely) or if they were to successfully bid for the 31. A standalone commercial option seems as good as impossible in practice.

Again though, what is Lothian’s incentive to do any of this? For those reasons, I highly doubt Lothian will be back in Linlithgow anytime soon.

 

[mb88]

The other problem getting from Livingston to Linlithgow (or vice versa) is the roads. Although its not far as the crow flies the roads between are not great (and most are not ones I would reccomend for regular large buses) such that one of the better options to do it is probably going via the M8 to Newbridge and then the M9 which is a fair bit of dead mileage.

The official off service route when LC had the X38 was via Avon Gorge.

 

[Busman757]

The official off service route when LC had the X38 was via Avon Gorge.

Even that could be a nightmare at times. Will be easier now that they have installed traffic lights at the top of the hill.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Your mist one important key fact. West Lothian council pays for the 31.

The Fastest bus ever between Linlithgow and Livingston was 15 years ago when First had a 47 every 2 hours from Bo'ness

What was this service? Curiousity beckons!

I think the only chance of Lothian returning to Linlithgow is if either the X38 is cut back (very unlikely) or if they were to successfully bid for the 31. A standalone commercial option seems as good as impossible in practice.

The only way I could see that working is if they reworked the X38 to bypass Linlithgow completely but then that would be an incredibly stupid move, and I doubt the X38 will be going anywhere.

The official off service route when LC had the X38 was via Avon Gorge.

Is Avon Gorge the route the 31 goes when running to Bathgate?

 

[mb88]

Is Avon Gorge the route the 31 goes when running to Bathgate?

No Avon Gorge is the A801, the 31 takes the A706 from Linlithgow and turns off before the junction with the A801 at the top of the Avon Gorge onto the B792 to service Torphichen.

 

[overthewater]

Even that could be a nightmare at times. Will be easier now that they have installed traffic lights at the top of the hill.

it run the around summer and autumn the first year the expanded shopping centre opened. It was a one bus service every 2 hours, livingston straight to linlithgow - did a cirular around Bo'ness

They should have kept it on for 4 more weeks..

PM0000003/355 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

 

[Auld reekie]

A very popular route then.

 

[DunsBus]

A very popular route then.View attachment 212944

A good way to kill time - get on, spend the next two hours and twenty minutes taking in the sights (both good and bad) of the city, then get off where you started from. On Sundays, it took two hours to do the full circle.