Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[35B]

That might explain why I was moved from TalkTalk to Utility Warehouse for my home phone and broadband at the start of the year (I've now switched to YouFibre after a rather hit-and-miss service during the spring and summer). The writing must have been on the wall back at the end of last year, prompting TalkTalk to start offloading customers to other providers.

As a recent and so far satisfied YouFibre customer, I'm a little nervous that they've been bought out by the owners of Virgin Media

 

[STINT47]

Modella Capital seem to be behind the purchase of Dealz, the European arm of Poundland, and seem to be front runners to buy the UK bit of Poundland too.

Adding them to the list of companies we expect to disappear soon!

Being purchased by Mondella Capital is the kiss of death.

 

[jon0844]

Being purchased by Mondella Capital is the kiss of death.

Unless you're invested in them.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Unless you're invested in them.

Then it's the "Chefs Kiss"

 

[jon0844]

Then it's the "Chefs Kiss"

The sad thing is that anyone in business thinks what they do is excellent, and would aim to do the exact same thing.

Loading a business with debt (either from selling off properties and leasing it back, or making the company pay to use its name and all the other 'tricks') is not something designed to help a business. If a business can survive that and still make money, it's more luck than judgement and the staff that create the wealth are not considered at all.

Only today I found out through a friend that Future Publishing has laid of loads of staff today on sites they acquired - but they've been buying back shares with money at the expense of keeping the cashflow to continue paying the reporters that kept the site going. Apparently they've paused this now, but it's crazy. Everyone is redundant and no doubt Future will sell off the sites to someone else as quickly as they can, and any new staff will be offered significantly worse contracts.

 

[Djgr]

The sad thing is that anyone in business thinks what they do is excellent, and would aim to do the exact same thing.

Loading a business with debt (either from selling off properties and leasing it back, or making the company pay to use its name and all the other 'tricks') is not something designed to help a business. If a business can survive that and still make money, it's more luck than judgement and the staff that create the wealth are not considered at all.

Only today I found out through a friend that Future Publishing has laid of loads of staff today on sites they acquired - but they've been buying back shares with money at the expense of keeping the cashflow to continue paying the reporters that kept the site going. Apparently they've paused this now, but it's crazy. Everyone is redundant and no doubt Future will sell off the sites to someone else as quickly as they can, and any new staff will be offered significantly worse contracts.

Ah, the legacy of Thatcher's Children!

 

[BuhSnarf]

The sad thing is that anyone in business thinks what they do is excellent, and would aim to do the exact same thing.

Loading a business with debt (either from selling off properties and leasing it back, or making the company pay to use its name and all the other 'tricks') is not something designed to help a business. If a business can survive that and still make money, it's more luck than judgement and the staff that create the wealth are not considered at all.

Only today I found out through a friend that Future Publishing has laid of loads of staff today on sites they acquired - but they've been buying back shares with money at the expense of keeping the cashflow to continue paying the reporters that kept the site going. Apparently they've paused this now, but it's crazy. Everyone is redundant and no doubt Future will sell off the sites to someone else as quickly as they can, and any new staff will be offered significantly worse contracts.

If I'm honest, I'm surprised Future are still going - do people still buy magazines? Used to subscribe to Amstrad Action back in the day.

 

[jon0844]

If I'm honest, I'm surprised Future are still going - do people still buy magazines? Used to subscribe to Amstrad Action back in the day.

They have bought loads of online sites and now use them for a lot of clickbait, ridiculous levels of ads and sponsored content (which sadly then comprises impartiality because nobody is writing bad reviews about a company that is giving you a load of money).

They're very much going but they won't hesitate to shut down sites and lay people off, and many staff members were made to become contractors too.

They're not unique. I think most publishers operate the same way.

 

[Gareth1990]

These type of Vulture Capital companies should just be banned, they are directly responsible for the decline of the high street and what good do they serve, apart from their shareholders? None is the answer…

 

[sor]

TalkTalk is back in the news again. It has had financial difficulties for some time but now the crunch is becoming real with a big bill to Openreach becoming due. It's particularly messy as TalkTalk is both a retail and a wholesale network provider, but the wholesale side depends on the retail business to survive, so the collapse of one is going to lead to the collapse of the other. It might be the first test of a "supplier of last resort" system similar to that used by the energy sector.

A private equity firm is suggesting that BT forgive £100m in payments due to assist in a potential takeover of that wholesale arm. Why they'd have any reason to agree to that is anyone's guess. If they bought the wholesale arm (with or without BT's help) then they're going to face a huge problem if the likes of BT, Sky or Vodafone take over the retail side and would quickly want to get the customers onto their existing networks.

https://news.sky.com/story/bt-asked-for-payment-waiver-as-talktalk-rescue-negotiations-intensify-13593725

The private equity firm which wants to buy the wholesale arm of struggling TalkTalk Telecom Group has approached BT Group to seek relief from payments worth over £100m in order to push a rescue deal through.

Sky News has learnt that Epiris has asked the FTSE-100 telecoms giant to waive or write off several months of payments from TalkTalk's PXC division to BT's arms-length subsidiary, Openreach.

PXC typically pays between £60m and £80m every month to Openreach, making it by far TalkTalk's biggest supplier.

 

[35B]

TalkTalk is back in the news again. It has had financial difficulties for some time but now the crunch is becoming real with a big bill to Openreach becoming due. It's particularly messy as TalkTalk is both a retail and a wholesale network provider, but the wholesale side depends on the retail business to survive, so the collapse of one is going to lead to the collapse of the other. It might be the first test of a "supplier of last resort" system similar to that used by the energy sector.

A private equity firm is suggesting that BT forgive £100m in payments due to assist in a potential takeover of that wholesale arm. Why they'd have any reason to agree to that is anyone's guess. If they bought the wholesale arm (with or without BT's help) then they're going to face a huge problem if the likes of BT, Sky or Vodafone take over the retail side and would quickly want to get the customers onto their existing networks.

https://news.sky.com/story/bt-asked-for-payment-waiver-as-talktalk-rescue-negotiations-intensify-13593725

You mean Epiris are asking BT to forego payments to their arm's length subsidiary, to allow Epiris a favourable position with Openreach that the arm's length nature of Openreach is specifically designed to prevent?

 

[sor]

You mean Epiris are asking BT to forego payments to their arm's length subsidiary, to allow Epiris a favourable position with Openreach that the arm's length nature of Openreach is specifically designed to prevent?

Unsurprisingly BT didn't go for that. They bought it themselves instead

BT Group has acquired TalkTalk and PlatformX ensuring continuity of service for millions of customers

BT has this morning acquired TalkTalk Telecommunications Limited and PlatformX Communications Limited out of administration to protect continuity of service for its 2.5 million customers, avoiding the risk of material harm to vulnerable customers and key emergency servicesThe estimate of the...

newsroom.bt.com

BT Group today announced that it has acquired TalkTalk Telecommunications Limited and PlatformX Communications Limited out of the administration of TalkTalk Group on a debt-free basis. The estimate of the total cash impact in FY27 is c£400m, comprising both consideration and other cash impacts.

After a prolonged, but ultimately unsuccessful, sale process for TalkTalk’s consumer and wholesale (PXC) operations, BT recognised the risk to the country, and especially vulnerable customers and key public services, should the company collapse. BT therefore approached the Directors of TalkTalk and offered to step in immediately, in the public interest, to protect customers and critical national infrastructure.

By acquiring the business out of administration, BT will be providing much needed and immediate reassurance for TalkTalk's employees, its 1.5 million retail customers and its 1 million wholesale customers across the UK. This includes vulnerable households, and connections that support critical national infrastructure providers across health, emergency services, defence, education, transport, banking and government.

 

[Backroom_boy]

TG Jones still feels like a temporary brand to me; when even company spokesman are saying sales are down because of the rebranding it doesn't seem that they put much value on it. If Modella are actually intending to keep the business I think they could rebrand once its been downsized to a manageable rump and they've got rid of the WH Smith branded stock. John Menzies has been suggested as a brand but that is still in use for other businesses. But how about Martins the Newsagent? Think the brand is owned by Morrisons now but they could be open to licencing/selling it, and I think there is still some residual recognition of it.

 

[jon0844]

I think the whole TG Jones 'thing' was a clever way to get rid of the high street stores without it impacting on WH Smith. If some stores can be maintained, happy days, but I think we'll eventually see most or all of them go.

WH Smith high street must be one of the most discussed 'company expected to disappear' topic for many years on this thread. I think it's amazing they lasted as long as they did.

TG Jones made it quick and easy to rebrand, as you could in many cases just put a sticker/vinyl over the old name. Probably very easy to search and replace on the website and so on. I don't know who came up with the name, but suspect the name Jones was a tongue-in-cheek joke about Smith & Jones for those who can remember it!

 

[Harpo]

I don't know who came up with the name, but suspect the name Jones was a tongue-in-cheek joke about Smith & Jones for those who can remember it!

The name of the TV series ‘Alas Smith And Jones’ was itself a humorous take on the title of a vintage western series called ‘Alias Smith And Jones’.

 

[Towers]

TG Jones still feels like a temporary brand to me; when even company spokesman are saying sales are down because of the rebranding it doesn't seem that they put much value on it. If Modella are actually intending to keep the business I think they could rebrand once its been downsized to a manageable rump and they've got rid of the WH Smith branded stock. John Menzies has been suggested as a brand but that is still in use for other businesses. But how about Martins the Newsagent? Think the brand is owned by Morrisons now but they could be open to licencing/selling it, and I think there is still some residual recognition of it.

Let’s be brutally honest, it’s a dying company trying to sell things to an increasingly non-existent market; they’re toast. They might well linger on a while, but they have no long term outlook unless something very radical is planned!

 

[BuhSnarf]

TG Jones still feels like a temporary brand to me; when even company spokesman are saying sales are down because of the rebranding it doesn't seem that they put much value on it. If Modella are actually intending to keep the business I think they could rebrand once its been downsized to a manageable rump and they've got rid of the WH Smith branded stock. John Menzies has been suggested as a brand but that is still in use for other businesses. But how about Martins the Newsagent? Think the brand is owned by Morrisons now but they could be open to licencing/selling it, and I think there is still some residual recognition of it.

The name TGJones was chosen as it was the exact same number of letters and similar dimensions when written out meaning that it was an easy replacement on signs/website without completely reformatting and reshaping various graphics/signage. The name has always been a temporary solution with an intention to eventually complete a full rebrand. However, it's likely there never will be a full rebrand as it's Modella.

There wouldn't be much point buying up the name Martins The Newsagent as there's very little mainstream heritage associated with that - similar to calling it Forbuoys or RS McColls. Furthermore, if they actually wanted to invest it would make more sense to have something moving away from the newsagent side of the business bearing in mind that is not the future. If I was Modella I'd actually do a tie in with their other property (Hobbycraft) and have focus the name more around the stationery/hobby/gift side of things, maybe something like Canvas & Craft, Inkwell or Jotter just off the top of my head.

 

[eyebrook1961]

The name of the TV series ‘Alas Smith And Jones’ was itself a humorous take on the title of a vintage western series called ‘Alias Smith And Jones’.

Ah, "Alias Smith & Jones", a must watch for me on BBC2 when younger - really enjoyed it

 

[Djgr]

Let’s be brutally honest, it’s a dying company trying to sell things to an increasingly non-existent market; they’re toast. They might well linger on a while, but they have no long term outlook unless something very radical is planned!

Agreed. Retailers have disappeared all the time. It's just that TG Jones (and Smith's before them) have made such a hash of not disappearing.

 

[Andyh82]

TG Jones still feels like a temporary brand to me; when even company spokesman are saying sales are down because of the rebranding

I’m not sure I believe that. Surely sales are down because they were down before and were always going to be down again

Who seriously would previously have shopped at WHSmith but the new name put them off, despite it being the exact same store in the exact same location, still with a blue sign above the door.

 

[lookapigeon]

The name TGJones was chosen as it was the exact same number of letters and similar dimensions when written out meaning that it was an easy replacement on signs/website without completely reformatting and reshaping various graphics/signage. The name has always been a temporary solution with an intention to eventually complete a full rebrand. However, it's likely there never will be a full rebrand as it's Modella.

There wouldn't be much point buying up the name Martins The Newsagent as there's very little mainstream heritage associated with that - similar to calling it Forbuoys or RS McColls. Furthermore, if they actually wanted to invest it would make more sense to have something moving away from the newsagent side of the business bearing in mind that is not the future. If I was Modella I'd actually do a tie in with their other property (Hobbycraft) and have focus the name more around the stationery/hobby/gift side of things, maybe something like Canvas & Craft, Inkwell or Jotter just off the top of my head.

TG jones sounds like one of those names a bunch of Apprentice candidates could come up with in a brainstorm in one of the tasks.

Although it probably boiled down to the idea of - what name sounds reasonably common like Smith, errr, Jones? And look T is near W, and G is next to H.
Right lads, how much can we charge the client for this...steak and fine red all round.

Even from the horse's mouth (the MD at Modella), the backstory for the rebrand feels like dishwater tea.
"TGJones feels like a worthy successor to the WHSmith brand, carrying with it the same sense of family, given that these stores are at the heart of everyone’s high street. By combining TGJones’ heritage with fresh capital and strategic support, we are confident we can unlock sustainable growth and re-establish these stores as the hub of every high street they serve."

The reality is that by injecting all of these other brands in, it just shows how muddled the whole operation is. It doesn't know what it wants.

 

[wilbers]

NCP gone into administration for the second time this year, following closing 10% of its sites last time.

 

[Djgr]

TG jones sounds like one of those names a bunch of Apprentice candidates could come up with in a brainstorm in one of the tasks.

Although it probably boiled down to the idea of - what name sounds reasonably common like Smith, errr, Jones? And look T is near W, and G is next to H.
Right lads, how much can we charge the client for this...steak and fine red all round.

Even from the horse's mouth (the MD at Modella), the backstory for the rebrand feels like dishwater tea.
"TGJones feels like a worthy successor to the WHSmith brand, carrying with it the same sense of family, given that these stores are at the heart of everyone’s high street. By combining TGJones’ heritage with fresh capital and strategic support, we are confident we can unlock sustainable growth and re-establish these stores as the hub of every high street they serve."

The reality is that by injecting all of these other brands in, it just shows how muddled the whole operation is. It doesn't know what it wants.

Indeed. It smacks of sheer amateurism, demonstrating that those who engage in financial engineering often lack skills elsewhere.

 

[Andyh82]

I has there ever been a situation like this before where a retailer has split into two parts, one part having to be renamed, but both parts basically selling the same stuff, just in different locations, rather than two different sectors. I’m sure it’s pretty rare.

Out of interest, who got the head office, and we may never know, will WHSmith stationery ever be rebranded as TG Jones, and will it start being sourced separately, with different products compared to what they will sell in the remaining WHSmith locations

 

[Bald Rick]

I has there ever been a situation like this before where a retailer has split into two parts, one part having to be renamed, but both parts basically selling the same stuff, just in different locations, rather than two different sectors. I’m sure it’s pretty rare.

Lloyds TSB Bank split back into Lloyds and TSB. (Retail banking so I’m counting it!)

 

[BuhSnarf]

I has there ever been a situation like this before where a retailer has split into two parts, one part having to be renamed, but both parts basically selling the same stuff, just in different locations, rather than two different sectors. I’m sure it’s pretty rare.

Out of interest, who got the head office, and we may never know, will WHSmith stationery ever be rebranded as TG Jones, and will it start being sourced separately, with different products compared to what they will sell in the remaining WHSmith locations

So there are multiple head offices, the main one that was used by WHSmith High Street (now TGJones) was Greenbridge Road in Swindon with WHSmith Travel (the bit that still remains WHSmith) using Swindon but mainly London. Over the years the Greenbridge Road site has been reduced to it mainly just being one office block and the warehouse. The warehouse in Swindon tended to supply just the High Street stores with Travel being supplied from multiple other locations including previously Birmingham, Holford and Dunstable - although I believe both of these are now gone also.

The sale to Modella included the Greenbridge Road site and I believe they are currently in the process of closing it down with proposals to replace it all with housing.

Lloyds TSB Bank split back into Lloyds and TSB. (Retail banking so I’m counting it!)

And TSB is now being absorbed in to Santander.

 

[joncombe]

My local T J Jones also includes a Toys RUs toy section and is part branded as such outside. Except all the branding still says Toys R Us at WH Smith, including the WH Smith logo. Either they didn't notice or can't be bothered to change it.

 

[m0ffy]

And TSB is now being absorbed in to Santander.

After an absolutely disastrous integration into another Spanish bank - Sabadell.

 

[Djgr]

Lloyds TSB Bank split back into Lloyds and TSB. (Retail banking so I’m counting it!)

Not sure that was a total triumph!

 

[Bikeman78]

Furthermore Royal Mail seem to favour parcels business over the letter post service they have a monopoly on. So I am moved to boycot Royal Mail parcels service !.

It does make me wonder how close to collapse the Royal Mail letter service is ?.

It's only recently dawned on me how useless Royal Mail has become. I'll have no post for days on end, then suddenly five or six letters appear at once. Birthday cards are arriving late, even if posted a week ahead. Recently I've had dealings with the Office of the public guardian. They allegedly sent me a letter in early August which never arrived. So they assumed I wasn't interested and returned my application form. That took 11 days to arrive, assuming they posted it on the date stated on the letter. I phoned them the same day and they said they would resend the lost letter. A week later, I'm still waiting. Assuming I can fix whatever is the problem on the form (they wouldn't tell me over the phone), I'll then have the expense of a second recorded delivery to send it back to them. Given that they have my phone number and email address, it seems amazing that they would rely on Royal Mail.