Missed last LNWR direct train from Crewe to London Euston - do I have to take LNWR indirect services or can I take a direct train from Avanti?

[Falcon1200]

I've never understood the attitude some staff take in situations like this.

Discretion costs nothing and it's not as if the guard would face any personal repercussion or financial penalty, it would also show that 'the railway' does actually care about it's customers.

Indeed, hopefully this kind of nonsense will cease under GBR. Not only is the passenger inconvenienced by disruption, their journey is then further delayed and/or made more expensive by ridiculous restrictions which doing away with would cost the railway nothing.

 

[Russel]

Indeed, hopefully this kind of nonsense will cease under GBR. Not only is the passenger inconvenienced by disruption, their journey is then further delayed and/or made more expensive by ridiculous restrictions which doing away with would cost the railway nothing.

Not just that though, an occasional traveller is going to think twice before using the train again, if they have been inconvenienced and then given the guilty until proven innocent attitude that a small number of staff have.

 

[Rail2002]

Unfortunately there are some guards who will in fact deny you travel in this situation (if anyone could explain why this happens I would be interested as it's pretty ridiculous)

If a train is extremely busy or heavily reserved the Train Manager will use his initiative to make a decision that's in the best interests of his customers. If it's unlikely to be busy, the Train Manager can decide to allow travel. It's at his discretion and the decision has to take in to account the interests of those with valid tickets that may be inconvenienced by another operator's passenger(S).

 

[Russel]

If a train is extremely busy or heavily reserved the Train Manager will use his initiative to make a decision that's in the best interests of his customers. If it's unlikely to be busy, the Train Manager can decide to allow travel. It's at his discretion and the decision has to take in to account the interests of those with valid tickets that may be inconvenienced by another operator's passenger(S).

But in the case of Avanti, it's usually just down to the jobsworth mentality a small minority of them seem to have.

 

[blimmo]

another operator's passenger(S).

So this will stop once Avanti are nationalised?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So this will stop once Avanti are nationalised?

It certainly should because not only is it to be nationalised but it is also to be merged with WMT.

 

[A Fellow Human]

Northern has now rejected my Delay Repay claim:



I've sent an appeal in response. They still have not replied regarding my purchased ticket from Rugby to Euston.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. If TOCs are treating missed connections the same as cancellations in Delay Repay, this means they need to be treated as such on the ground too...a policy update needed already?

 

[Adam Williams]

I think whoever is responsible for the Delay Repay software has completely dropped the ball here.

The govt's policy, as written, does not allow using the alternative leg it's proposing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The govt's policy, as written, does not allow using the alternative leg it's proposing.

Agreed. It probably should, but it indeed doesn't.

It would have done had the WMT train been cancelled.

 

[py_megapixel]

Interesting. If TOCs are treating missed connections the same as cancellations in Delay Repay, this means they need to be treated as such on the ground too...a policy update needed already?

To be honest I am unconvinced that it is even the intention for the current policy to treat them differently. I think it's far more likely that whoever wrote the policy wording simply didn't think about it. Given the railway's terrible record on communicating this sort of thing clearly to passengers, I'm very happy to assume cock-up before conspiracy.

Of course that is little consolation to a passenger stranded by guards who insist on enforcing the nonsensical letter of the policy...

 

[redreni]

I think whoever is responsible for the Delay Repay software has completely dropped the ball here.

The govt's policy, as written, does not allow using the alternative leg it's proposing.

I agree, although it is useful, as the claimant, to be able to see the reasoning behind the TOC's decision.

I recently sent in a paper claim to GWR for a journey from Maidenhead to Paddington. I didn't intend to, and didn't, travel anywhere else by rail after arriving at Paddington. They've entered my journey details onto their online portal and have hallucinated additional journey legs between Paddington and Waterloo and between Waterloo and Feltham, seemingly for no other reason than that my inboundary Z1-6 Travelcard season ticket happened to be issued from Feltham to Z1-6. But at the same time, they've also claimed that my intended train from Maidenhead to Paddington isn't in the timetable (it was the Tuesday after the fire just outside Paddington and the Didcot Parkway to Paddington services were curtailed to run Didcot Parkway to Reading, but they were still shown as cancellations between Reading and Paddington on journey planners and on screens at stations). This makes it difficult to know where to begin as one doesn't quite know which bits of nonsense to focus on when appealing.

At least in the OP's case you can see that they've identified an alternative service for which the OP's ticket was not valid, which is a very clear point of appeal. Even somebody working for Northern really ought to be able to grasp it.

As a more general point, even if the system took TOC and route restrictions into account when identifying the first alternative service the passenger could have taken, it seems to me to be unsatisfactory to assume the passenger did in fact take that service. It's the same thinking that gives us microeconomics - the individual is assumed to be not only rational but all-knowing.

The passenger ought to be able to say which train they took and if the TOC wants to base its decision on compensation on a quicker journey that should hypothetically have been possible, it needs to be sure that it was the passenger's choice or, at the very least, the passenger's fault that they didn't make that quicker journey. The test is whether the delay was caused by a delayed train or trains; if it was, compensation is owed based on the actual delay.

 

[Kite159]

Interesting. If TOCs are treating missed connections the same as cancellations in Delay Repay, this means they need to be treated as such on the ground too...a policy update needed already?

Or is it another case of the system being used for delay repay doesn't understand TOC only restrictions when it comes to missed connections (or even cancellations before the rules changed*)

(Ie someone travelling from Crewe to London on a LNR only ticket getting turfed off at Milton Keynes due to late running with various announcements made about not boarding the Avanti services)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or is it another case of the system being used for delay repay doesn't understand TOC only restrictions when it comes to missed connections (or even cancellations before the rules changed*)

I'm fairly sure it does normally.

(Ie someone travelling from Crewe to London on a LNR only ticket getting turfed off at Milton Keynes due to late running with various announcements made about not boarding the Avanti services)

That is a cancellation, so now under the new rules they can.

 

[A Fellow Human]

I filled out their appeal form and somehow my claim from Northern was rejected yet again, even though they admit that the ticket I had was LNR&WMR only:

I don't even see an option to appeal again... now what?

 

[Watershed]

I filled out their appeal form and somehow my claim from Northern was rejected yet again, even though they admit that the ticket I had was LNR&WMR only:
View attachment 212811
I don't even see an option to appeal again... now what?

Raise a complaint about their rejection of the claim.

 

[soccermad]

Please does someone have a link to the PRO rules regarding catching trains +/- 2 hrs from originally planned and when / how they apply ?

Thanks in Advance

 

[jfollows]

A quick search for
pro rules railway
immediately came up with https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...2007-on-rail-passengers-right-and-obligations

 

[Haywain]

Please does someone have a link to the PRO rules regarding catching trains +/- 2 hrs from originally planned and when / how they apply ?

Thanks in Advance

I don’t think you mean PRO, which doesn’t have anything about catching trains earlier than booked, and isn’t something you can exercise yourself.

 

[soccermad]

A quick search for
pro rules railway
immediately came up with https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...2007-on-rail-passengers-right-and-obligations

Thanks brill , I failed in my attempt to find a link

 

[redreni]

I don’t think you mean PRO, which doesn’t have anything about catching trains earlier than booked, and isn’t something you can exercise yourself.

Are you sure?

If I am booked with an Advance single on a train due to depart at 16:00 and I find out at 10:00 that it is cancelled, and it is anticipated that if I take the next train of the same operator then I will be delayed by at least an hour, then I can ask to be rerouted at the earliest opportunity. It does not say "at the earliest opportunity, but not departing before the original train was due to depart".