Avanti West Coast - Renationalisation on March 7th 2027

[Djgr]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand how this is the "earliest opportunity", when the core expiry is in October, and there's a 3 month notice period?

Surely the earliest opportunity would be today plus 3 months, or October plus 3 months, which would be in January?

Do they mean the earliest opportunity which happens to be convenient for DfT(O)?

I think that they will be busy dealing with Great Western around then!

 

[Clarence Yard]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand how this is the "earliest opportunity", when the core expiry is in October, and there's a 3 month notice period?

Surely the earliest opportunity would be today plus 3 months, or October plus 3 months, which would be in January?

Do they mean the earliest opportunity which happens to be convenient for DfT(O)?

Correct. They are taking them back in strict CTED order, at a rate of 4 a year, approximately three months apart. The CTED dates for Avanti and EMR are identical so it was always a toss up as to who went in March and who went in June/July 2027. Now we know.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's probably worth doing a similar GBR thread for management grades. I've already heard about TOC management staff on significantly less than what the people they're working with in NR are on.

And then you add on the very significant bonus NR staff have just received which TOC / DFTO / DFT don't get, and you can imagine how uncomfortable things are going to get.

Not unusual to have such pay disparities in any industry. In fact I've been in roles in the past, in both public and private sectors, where I've line-managed staff within the same grading structure as me who are paid more than me.

 

[Rail2002]

A few questions:- Will Avanti gain a Penalty Fares liecence by default?

Will customers with First Class tickets for the former LNWR services have access to Avanti First Class lounges?

 

[andyjhatton]

Will customers with First Class tickets for the former LNWR services have access to Avanti First Class lounges?

LNWR don't offer first class, do they?

 

[styles]

LNWR don't offer first class, do they?

Not for about 3 years now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few questions:- Will Avanti gain a Penalty Fares liecence by default?

The price of their outrageous long distance Anytime fares kind of renders Penalty Fares a bit moot. LNER don't have them either.

 

[Rail2002]

The price of their outrageous long distance Anytime fares kind of renders Penalty Fares a bit moot. LNER don't have them either.

So, do you reckon they'll only have them on the former LNWR services or do you think they'll surrender their PF licence? I don't think we've been in a situation before where a franchise is restructured with one being a PF operator and one not. Interesting times.

 

[thedbdiboy]

A few questions:- Will Avanti gain a Penalty Fares liecence by default?

Will customers with First Class tickets for the former LNWR services have access to Avanti First Class lounges?

There's no such thing as a Penalty Fares licence under the current iteration of the legislation. Provided the statutory rules are followed a TOC in England can charge Penalty Fares. As every TOC transferring into DfTO will eventually become part of a single GBR operation, it seems inevitable that a corporate Penalty Fares policy will need to apply at some point. This won't be on day one but at some point 'Avanti' won't be a separate legal entity.
I would imaging First Class would also at the very least become a line of route policy for the same reason (although of course on the WCML south there is no longer any LNW First Class accomodation)

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's no such thing as a Penalty Fares licence under the current iteration of the legislation. Provided the statutory rules are followed a TOC in England can charge Penalty Fares. As every TOC transferring into DfTO will eventually become part of a single GBR operation, it seems inevitable that a corporate Penalty Fares policy will need to apply at some point. This won't be on day one but at some point 'Avanti' won't be a separate legal entity.
I would imaging First Class would also at the very least become a line of route policy for the same reason (although of course on the WCML south there is no longer any LNW First Class accomodation)

Created a new speculative thread for these discussions: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-will-gbrs-line-on-penalty-fares-and-first-class-be.307908/