Southeastern Penalty Letter Help

[75Cassi]

Hi all

Over 11 months ago I was stopped at a London station by a ticket inspector when trying to tap through. I had bought a ticket on board the train at a nearer station than I boarded. I received the MG11 and awaited the letter through the door.

It arrived last week after 11 months. Not citing any thing in particular other than my version of events and the incident date. I have 21 days to respond.

I am keen to deal with this issue and feel genuinely remorseful and like an idiot. It is not in my character. I want to deal with it also as I am worried about potential fraud implications as I had a habit of doing this on and off over a 4 month period. I think about 17 times. Total cost to deal with should be about £200 - £300 plus penalty / admin charge.

I plan to write a letter expressing the above and trying to be honest and deal proactively but wanted to check the forums view if a) you think i should specially ref the other previous incidents or just make it clear I want to address this directly but not into specifics b) do you think i should get legal advise now? C) any other suggestions, in particular the structure my letter should consist of. Thank you.

Thank you

 

[Chiltern 165]

after 11 months

Did you continue it until recently? We generally see letters within 6 months of the stop.

 

[75Cassi]

Hi

No I stopped straight after I got caught and never since

 

[Chiltern 165]

Hi

No I stopped straight after I got caught and never since

Do you know if the letter was recently sent to you? Is there a date on it indicating that it is new?

 

[75Cassi]

No does not ref any other dates or indications they contacted me separately at any other time

 

[Chiltern 165]

No does not ref any other dates or indications they contacted me separately at any other time

Generally, we see first contact within 6 months, so such a distance is quite abnormal. We will see what the forum’s experts think.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all

Over 11 months ago I was stopped at a London station by a ticket inspector when trying to tap through. I had bought a ticket on board the train at a nearer station than I boarded. I received the MG11 and awaited the letter through the door.

It arrived last week after 11 months. Not citing any thing in particular other than my version of events and the incident date. I have 21 days to respond.

I am keen to deal with this issue and feel genuinely remorseful and like an idiot. It is not in my character. I want to deal with it also as I am worried about potential fraud implications as I had a habit of doing this on and off over a 4 month period. I think about 17 times. Total cost to deal with should be about £200 - £300 plus penalty / admin charge.

I plan to write a letter expressing the above and trying to be honest and deal proactively but wanted to check the forums view if a) you think i should specially ref the other previous incidents or just make it clear I want to address this directly but not into specifics b) do you think i should get legal advise now? C) any other suggestions, in particular the structure my letter should consist of. Thank you.

Thank you

Can you upload a copy of the letter you have been sent with your personal / any ref numbers / details blanked out and any other paperwork you have associated with it (eg anything you were given on the day when questioned etc)

For offences of this nature they have 6 months to take the matter to court - which is the main leverage they have over you including to maximise any payment they want - so it seems that they have missed that deadline (but bthey have 6 years to use the civil court to claim debts of unpaid fares though, but this is much less serious for you than being prosecuted for this as a criminal offence) - so the fact they have missed this deadline or so it seems would probably change the advice you might get from here in terms of how to respond - and I suspect some here might suggest not responding at all, although their are arguments either way.

Certainly don't plash out the c£700 on legal advice at this stage if they have genuinely lost the ability to actually prosecute you.

The way this usually works is that the rail company would write to you within the 6 months and under threat of prosecution ask for 'your version of events' which if you do not co-operate with / offer to pay what you owe means they can and do take it to criminal magistrates court where they would secure a guilty verdict for fare evasion and you have a criminal record plus a court fine, costs etc - so it's very much in your interests to negotiate an out of court settlement and pay them what they ask for in terms of the evaded fares (usually calculated at the most expensive Anytime Single fare) alongside an admin fee of c£150. So you are over a barrel in that scenario

But SE Trains in particular seemed to have some internal issues which meant they got behind with cases for a length of time, and now seem to have resolved those issues - so it looks like they are tackling their backlog - but they really shouldn't be threatening you with court proceeding they can't undertake - so that's why it would be helpful to see what they are saying to you - hence the benefit of seeing whatever you have been sent.

Their may still be an argument for engaging with them and co-operating, but the tone / manner in which you do so after all this time might be different then the usual advice given on here for people who receive these letters within the 6 month period mentioned.

This thread from last week (or responses to it), and noting letter shown in post #1, may have some similarities that you will want to note - albeit the case involves what the OP says is accidentally having the wrong ticket as opposed to deliberate fare evasion.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/fine-prosecution-need-help-please.307813/#post-7967618

 

[skyhigh]

Generally, we see first contact within 6 months, so such a distance is quite abnormal. We will see what the forum’s experts think.

We mention 6 months because that is the time limit to lay papers before the court. Southeastern are well out of time to prosecute now if they haven't already started proceedings (and if they had, you'd know by now).

 

[WesternLancer]

I guess if 21 days to respond from the date on the letter the OP probably has about 14 days yet to decide what they want to do about this - ie if to respond or not, and if so how to respond.

Seeing the letter would be useful (without personal details or ref numbers showing)

 

[75Cassi]

See letter attached

 

[WesternLancer]

See letter attached

Thanks for posting - I would imagine this is the pretty standard letter they would send when they are writing to people they have caught with ticket irregularities within the 6 month period from the date of catching someone.

Have you further thoughts yourself on how you are minded to respond given the posts on here and the other linked thread? (thoughts that may now be different from your initial thinking in your first post).

You mention about 17 times - it would be worth carefully checking your online buying records to see exactly how many instances you can find (no need to state the answer here).
Also do you typically travel at peak or off peak travel times for the journeys where you have not bought tickets for the full journey?

 

[AlterEgo]

It's a civil matter and all they suggest is that the OP owes money. Leave it for them to work it out and don't reply. They'll write again. Don't grass yourself up.

 

[75Cassi]

Thanks for posting - I would imagine this is the pretty standard letter they would send when they are writing to people they have caught with ticket irregularities within the 6 month period from the date of catching someone.

Have you further thoughts yourself on how you are minded to respond given the posts on here and the other linked thread? (thoughts that may now be different from your initial thinking in your first post).

You mention about 17 times - it would be worth carefully checking your online buying records to see exactly how many instances you can find (no need to state the answer here).
Also do you typically travel at peak or off peak travel times for the journeys where you have not bought tickets for the full journey?

My main worry is that they accuse me of fraud and try to prosecute that way which I believe is not limited to 6 months and therefore my preference would be to be cooperative and look to settle out of court. Thoughts on general experience on this topic?

 

[WesternLancer]

My main worry is that they accuse me of fraud and try to prosecute that way which I believe is not limited to 6 months and therefore my preference would be to be cooperative and look to settle out of court. Thoughts on general experience on this topic?

I’m pretty sure you are correct in that fraud prosecution is not limited to 6 months.

I can’t recall a case on here of anyone coming for advice who was actually being prosecuted for fraud.

That’s not to say it doesn’t happen but I suspect it’s not a way that many evasion cases are dealt with.

 

[AlterEgo]

My main worry is that they accuse me of fraud and try to prosecute that way which I believe is not limited to 6 months and therefore my preference would be to be cooperative and look to settle out of court. Thoughts on general experience on this topic?

It won't happen.

I'd ignore the letter and let them work out what you owe them. That's what is supposed to happen when a company feels they're owed money in a civil process.