If Metro problem causes missed connection does it count for permission to take a later train?

[trainophile]

I know if you use a bus to get to the station and it is late or doesn't turn up you don't have any rights regarding your missed train. However this morning there was a problem with the Tyne & Wear Metro in front of the one that I was stuck on, and we were sat just outside South Gosforth for about half an hour. By sheer luck it started again just giving me enough time to get my booked Advance ticket connection at Newcastle Central. Only because I'd deliberately taken an earlier Metro than i strictly needed to, but it saved the day.

If I'd not made my connection (Newcastle to Carlisle on Northern), would I have had any rights to take a later train than my ticket was for, or would I have to buy a new ticket? Also subsequent connections on Avanti if missed?

Does the Metro count as part of the rail network for such purposes?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Did you have a ticket including the metro?

 

[trainophile]

No a POP card for the Metro. I didn't know you could get through tickets?

 

[Watershed]

Tyne & Wear Metro operate under their own Conditions of Carriage and they are not a party to the NRCoT. As such there is no strict legal right to take a later train in the event you didn't book it as a through journey.

If you had booked it as a through journey (even if the retailer had sold you splits), there would probably be an implied contractual obligation to allow travel on a later train because otherwise you would not be receiving the service you paid for (transport from your origin to your destination).

 

[A S Leib]

If you had a Tyne and Wear Daysaver and a MetroCentre to Carlisle advance ticket, would that count as a through ticket, whether delays happened on the Metro or at Dunston? What about a Daysaver and an advance ticket from Newcastle to Edinburgh?

 

[charley_17/7]

T&W Metro isn't listed as a 'Train Company', despite services running on the 'National Rail' network, and times appearing in the journey planner. As a former Station Supervisor and Senior Conductor, I would always "honour", whether it be a bus, train (other TOC), tram, Metro or whatever, if it was genuinely not the cause of the passenger. Best thing is to speak to someone and explain, rather than assume, and if you come across Revenue Protection being "difficult", ask to speak someone who can help.

 

[londonbridge]

On the one occasion I’ve missed my train at Central station due to metro delays, I spoke to the train manager before boarding the next one and he said he’d have to charge the difference between the advance that I held and a walk up single, but when he came round checking tickets he just nodded at me as he passed and carried on down the train.

 

[Tester]

On the one occasion I’ve missed my my train at Central station due to metro delays, I spoke to the train manager before boarding the next one and he said he’d have to charge the difference between the advance that held and a walk up single, but when he came round checking tickets he just nodded at me as he passed and carried on down the train.

Classic railway

Why, oh why, do they do that?

 

[philthetube]

Probably because he knows what he should do but then goes away and thinks about it and feels that is the fair thing to do, or possibly to check if there are Metro problems.

 

[trainophile]

The possible problem with this situation is that you can't prove you actually travelled on the Metro, if you use a POP card or some other seasonal type of payment. Easy enough if you've arrived on another operator's train and can show your ticket. I guess the same could apply on the London Underground if you've used an Oyster, a Freedom Pass or contactless and are connecting to a mainline operator.

 

[Llanigraham]

Classic railway

Why, oh why, do they do that?

He seems to have used discretion, which should be applauded, not criticised.

 

[londonbridge]

The possible problem with this situation is that you can't prove you actually travelled on the Metro, if you use a POP card or some other seasonal type of payment.

Scan a POP card with the POP app on your phone and it will show the date, time and location where the card was last used.

Image is a partial screen shot of the POP app after scanning my card. The white area at the bottom of the image has been redacted in order to remove the card account number.

 

[trainophile]

Ooh I never knew that! Thanks.

 

[Sonic1234]

I guess the same could apply on the London Underground if you've used an Oyster, a Freedom Pass or contactless and are connecting to a mainline operator.

The same if you have a U-Zone ticket, it's very hard if not impossible to prove the delay. But if you are delayed on such a ticket this is valid on the next train (it's more ambiguous if you use Oyster or Contactless)

Really, the passenger's word should be enough. It's good customer service. So what if 0.01% of Advance ticket holders realise they can get the next train by saying "my bus was late", it's better to offer good service to those who are already stressed about missing a connection.

 

[Haywain]

Classic railway

Why, oh why, do they do that?

It’s ridiculous to be criticising staff for NOT charging. You have no idea what happened - they may have encountered a couple more passengers in the same situation and concluded that showing discretion was appropriate because the story had been backed up. Whatever the case, it’s better to give the bad news first and then give something better.

 

[Tester]

It’s ridiculous to be criticising staff for NOT charging. You have no idea what happened - they may have encountered a couple more passengers in the same situation and concluded that showing discretion was appropriate because the story had been backed up. Whatever the case, it’s better to give the bad news first and then give something better.

I am in no way criticising staff for NOT charging.

And indeed I have no idea what happened.

But sadly 'no' followed by 'ok then', sometimes followed by 'just this once' is almost a meme, and gives a very bad impression to normal people (which we are not).

Some will defend it; some will roll their eyes, but here we are!

 

[Segedunum]

If there's a service suspension that affects the Metro it usually gets circulated internally with a message for staff to "exercise discretion".

Gateline staff at Newcastle will be well familiar with Metro delays and from experience will tap you through and tell you to go speak to the TM/guard.

 

[Anvil1984]

If you had a Tyne and Wear Daysaver and a MetroCentre to Carlisle advance ticket, would that count as a through ticket, whether delays happened on the Metro or at Dunston? What about a Daysaver and an advance ticket from Newcastle to Edinburgh?

In the first case nope, because the product formerly known as Daysaver (Metro Ticket) isn’t valid to the Metrocentre it’s Newcastle to Sunderland only, same with some of the products on POP cards

(There was a Tyne and Wear day rover which included Metrocentre but this was discontinued in favour of the all North East product). As a multimodal ticket I think it’d be conductor discretion

 

[londonbridge]

That’s something I’m finding frustrating with the reopening of the Ashington line, they’ve enabled POP PAYG on that line but it’s still not available on Northern between Sunderland and Newcastle even though there’s inter availability with metro and Northern tickets.