Sir Felix Pole
Established Member
Yep - what is the splodge below the cab all about? Is the green brighter than the traditional shade, or is it just the photo?
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Blackpool Trams News
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Was 005 physically damaged so that repair became unviable? Or is the problem simply that the stripping has gone too far?
I'm afraid I don't know for sure, it seems like it's the latter.
Om a brighter note, trams have been running through to Fleetwood Ferry again since Saturday, following the fire damaged building's scaffolding being made safe. Trams are not stopping at the Northbound London Street stop, as the scaffolding is partly on the platform.
And finally, the livery on 012 is fabulous, especially compared to the dull and uninteresting, and now dirty looking, purple.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
The green and cream shades always varied - it doesn’t look too out place for an approximation of the 1970s half green/half cream livery with the swooped Vs on the front applied to the Brush cars, but if green & cream must have been chased then something bespoke for the Flexities would be a better idea.
Was in Blackpool last weekend while the Fireworks were on and surprise surprise it was chaos, full Trams everywhere. One extra tram ran to Bispham and another to Little Bispham and that was all the extras after the fireworks unti 23:00 (Source: My hotel I was staying at looked directly at the tramway and was looking to see if they were any extras running)
philthetube
Established Member
- Joined
- 5 Jan 2016
- Messages
- 4,200
Blackpool council do not seem to realise just how much the lack of a good tram service costs the town, in many ways.
There is the obvious lost revenue because of left behind travellers, and non collected revenue because conductors are unable to get through the tram to collect fares.
But also a reduction of footfall in the town centre, because non drivers cannot get into town at certain times, and possibly loss of business to hotels as people will not return if their experiences are bad.
It is not uncommon for there to be effectively no service south to the Norbreck Castle in a morning as all trams run through full.
I they cannot run adequate services they should at least put on additional bus services to allow all intending passengers to travel, they could even call them tram replacement services to allow them to charge pensioners.
I really feel that if they cannot get their act together the trams should be privatised, with strict service requirements concerning frequency and service start and finish times. (This is something I never thought I would advocate for any public transport).
There is the obvious lost revenue because of left behind travellers, and non collected revenue because conductors are unable to get through the tram to collect fares.
But also a reduction of footfall in the town centre, because non drivers cannot get into town at certain times, and possibly loss of business to hotels as people will not return if their experiences are bad.
It is not uncommon for there to be effectively no service south to the Norbreck Castle in a morning as all trams run through full.
I they cannot run adequate services they should at least put on additional bus services to allow all intending passengers to travel, they could even call them tram replacement services to allow them to charge pensioners.
I really feel that if they cannot get their act together the trams should be privatised, with strict service requirements concerning frequency and service start and finish times. (This is something I never thought I would advocate for any public transport).
If were to be privatised you'll never see the historic/legacy trams running again
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The National Tramway Museum in Crich in Derbyshire is a good place to see historic trams for people to visit and there are also other places of interest in that general area to make a full day out.
It's hardly the same as seeing them running in their correct historic location.
And somehow I doubt if they have the room to take on many of Blackpool's remaining historic fleet
philthetube
Established Member
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This may or may not be true, we see preserved vehicles on the main line railways.
In any case how likely are we to see preserved trams in any case.
Leedsbusman
Member
They aren’t running now either!
Topmandog1
Member
In the modern world of TFL and bee network we are never going to see a new private tram network
edwin_m
Veteran Member
They might still contract out to a private operator, as TfL do with London Trams and TfGM do with Metrolink. But it will be run as a part of the wider network with integrated ticketing etc, not like a deregulated bus operator.
Given that things like the tower and sandcastle went from contracted to in-house last year, it'll be extremely unlikely that the trams would go the other way
With this level of mismanagement, the historic trams aren’t safe anyway either because the system eventually closes as a result of financial loses or the decision makers inexplicably pull the plug. It’s a wretched downward spiral.
No private operator is going to agree to share tracks with a bunch of ill-maintained ancient unreliable museum pieces which are a risk to reliable service and bring unwanted associated costs e.g. the need for discrete platforms because of the differing disability access needs.
And to be honest it's hard to see a council owned operation accepting those costs either. Somewhere the cost of electricity, track, OHLE and repairs has to come out of someone's commercial budget - and it won't be a private operators
Sir Felix Pole
Established Member
I think the best we can hope for is a dedicated museum at Rigby Road and a few running days a year on the 'main line' - this is the model municipal operators on the continent adopt e.g Den Haag in the Netherlands.
Blackpool Council will cease to exist with local government reorganisation - its successor is not yet clear but will probably include the rest of the Fylde. We don't know what the attitude to the tramway will be - I'd like to see an expansion to Lytham but who knows?
Blackpool Council will cease to exist with local government reorganisation - its successor is not yet clear but will probably include the rest of the Fylde. We don't know what the attitude to the tramway will be - I'd like to see an expansion to Lytham but who knows?
Skymonster
Established Member
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- 7 Feb 2012
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- 2,070
The tram shed at Rigby Road is almost derelict - it'd take ages and a lot of money to refurbish is and get it to a public visitable standard. And what would they do with fifty odd trams while they were renovating the depot? Put them outside under tarps? That'd do them good - not. Move them to another site - and then back again? At what additional cost on top of renovating the depot? Find an alternative undercover location? How much would that cost? Could it even be connected to the tramway rail network? And the cost of moving all the trams... Then almost all the trams would need money spending on them before they could run again... Rigby Road is too big and there are too many duplicates in the heritage fleet anyway... Anyone who thinks that the entire collection can be saved, in a secure weatherproof site, with all the vehicles in presentable condition is living in cloud cuckoo land. It took the National Tramway Museum more than 60 years to get where it is now. Without massive public-funded investment getting Blackpool's heritage trams on a similar level isn't going to be any different.
In my opinion Blackpool has to cut its cloth according to realistic measures of potentially available funding and future income. A small shed, probably connected to or alongside Starr Gate, and a few operational heritage trams (a Boat, a Balloon, the Western Train, HMS Blackpool, the trawler, a Standard, Bolton 66 if you must) that are operable but could be visited when they're not running. Cosmetically restore a few more to be put in the same shed (Rocket, Twin Set, Railcoach). Sell the rest - including potentially operable Balloons, Boats, the B-fleet - to help raise money for the project.
In my opinion Blackpool has to cut its cloth according to realistic measures of potentially available funding and future income. A small shed, probably connected to or alongside Starr Gate, and a few operational heritage trams (a Boat, a Balloon, the Western Train, HMS Blackpool, the trawler, a Standard, Bolton 66 if you must) that are operable but could be visited when they're not running. Cosmetically restore a few more to be put in the same shed (Rocket, Twin Set, Railcoach). Sell the rest - including potentially operable Balloons, Boats, the B-fleet - to help raise money for the project.
As the Isle of Man found out a few years back when they tried that same trick with some of their trams. Ended up with several scrappings
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
A point well made and one that all contributors on this thread should be mindful of.
The issue here is the total lack of forward thinking. We are were we are because nobody has done anything sensible for years So this is what you end up with, something pass the point of no return. or is it?
As a child of the sixties, I grew up with a love of steam engines and overnight society coach trips to what was known at the time as Barry Scrapyard, except unbeknown to us, it wasn’t. Those 180 or so rusting locomotives, many of which appeared beyond redemption, were eventually saved and now form the backbone of our heritage railways. It’s just going to take someone cleverer than me, to come up with a solution For the Blackpool tram fleet.
Leedsbusman
Member
Did it? Apart from trailer 45 I’m don’t recall any MER scrappings in recent times.
Having hit the regular 20-minute gap in the northbound service last week after *just* missing a tram, I have to agree. I hung around for the next one (which then, of course, got very busy as it passed along the prom) but how many occasional travellers are going to want to wait that long?
Serving North every 30 minutes seems pretty useless too. It isn't frequent enough to provide a useful service, but irritates those not travelling to North by *sometimes* extending their journey time, depending on which tram they caught. I can't imagine a service level of 2ph would have justified building the extension.