"ScotRail Express" What is the point of this brand?

[Transilien]

From the introduction of the 385s, all Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk High services were branded as ScotRail Express. What is the point of this brand when it only is used on one line? Also, all 385s carry this branding, including the 3-car ones which I’ve never seen run the Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk High route.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I suppose that it’s a compromise for not having any services between Scotland’s largest cities under the Inter7City umbrella.

 

[EMU303]

From the introduction of the 385s, all Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk High services were branded as ScotRail Express. What is the point of this brand when it only is used on one line? Also, all 385s carry this branding, including the 3-car ones which I’ve never seen run the Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk High route.

I thought it was to distinguish the service from the slower (Helensburgh) Glasgow Queen St Edinburgh service?

 

[waverley47]

I thought it was to distinguish the service from the slower (Helensburgh) Glasgow Queen St Edinburgh service?

Also the two other routes (formerly three) from Waverley to Glasgow.

In some hours at Waverley pre-Covid, there were trains from Waverley to Glasgow 13 times an hour, with journey times ranging from 45 to 100 minutes. It was deemed useful to have a big sign at Waverley pointing to the fastest, highest capacity route.

 

[Sorcerer]

It sounds like a brand for regional express services like ones running between Glasgow and Edinburgh that don't quite fall under the Inter7City brand. "Express" kind of works because it refers more to stopping pattern than distance and locations and could reasonably work outside the scope of intercity operations.

 

[WAB]

How widely is the name promoted? It occurs to me that these names get put in but you rarely see them on the trains, CIS, PIS, websites, timetables etc. and don't add much at all.

 

[A S Leib]

Are there any other routes where using the brand could make sense? Maybe non-HST Central Belt to Aberdeen and Inverness services, given the length of them, even if most stations north of Perth get calls?

 

[Sorcerer]

How widely is the name promoted? It occurs to me that these names get put in but you rarely see them on the trains, CIS, PIS, websites, timetables etc. and don't add much at all.

I think it's only really seen on the Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh Waverly route via Falkirk High. Not quite sure the brand is really used anywhere else and might just be a Central Belt thing if anything, but I'll let the more knowledgeable correct me on that if need be.

 

[Failed Unit]

Didn’t this used to be used in BR days - back in the days the 158s were new?

 

[GusB]

Didn’t this used to be used in BR days - back in the days the 158s were new?

The brand was used before that, when the push-pull sets ran between Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.

 

[fgwrich]

The ScotRail Express brand was bought in during the arrival of the 385s to boost promotion of the direct Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High route - it’s still the quickest way to travel between the two cities and at one point (not sure if it still does) have a 15 minute frequency. Don’t forget it is also now competing with very regular bus services which now includes Ember too.

 

[Citybreak1]

I remember there use to be a direct Falkirk high to edinburgh train also Stirling services use to skip Polmont and Linlithgow. Glasgow trains use to
To Edinburgh rather than terminate at Falkirk. Was much better service.

 

[route101]

From the introduction of the 385s, all Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk High services were branded as ScotRail Express. What is the point of this brand when it only is used on one line? Also, all 385s carry this branding, including the 3-car ones which I’ve never seen run the Glasgow-Edinburgh via Falkirk High route.

The 3 car sets run on this route, usually in pairs.

 

[Kite159]

...

I remember there use to be a direct Falkirk high to edinburgh train also Stirling services use to skip Polmont and Linlithgow. Glasgow trains use to
To Edinburgh rather than terminate at Falkirk. Was much better service.

The extension of the Glasgow - Cumbernauld - Falkirk G trains to Edinburgh was one of those crazy ideas.

Although it would be nice if Glasgow - Edinburgh via Falkirk High went back to 4tph all day, back to a service pattern with Glasgow - Croy - Falkirk - Haymarket/Edinburgh with 2tph and Glasgow - Falkirk - Polmont - Linlithgow - Haymarket Edinburgh with the other 2tph, maybe changing at peak times with Bishopbriggs & Lenzie if there is demand for Edinburgh services at those stations

 

[Transilien]

The 3 car sets run on this route, usually in pairs

I’ve never seen that before, how common is that?

 

[waverley47]

The 3 car sets run on this route, usually in pairs.

Officially, it's 95% eight cars, and then one diagram during the evening peak is a seven car set. In practice, you can get anything from four to eight cars depending on what's being used elsewhere and how many units are at Craigentinny for maintenance .

The extension of the Glasgow - Cumbernauld - Falkirk G trains to Edinburgh was one of those crazy ideas.

The Cumbernauld service actually worked really well in the timetable. The problem was that it was established pre-Covid, during the days of forecasted 5% growth year on year, and basically free money.

It only used one extra diagram compared to the current set up, which has 1tph turning at Cumbernauld and the other going to Grahamston and reversing on the Grangemouth branch. The thinking was giving an even 2tph service to the Cumbernauld branch stations, plus picking up extra stops at Bonnybridge and Winchburgh when they opened. The extra diagram came from replacing the 314s, 318s and 320s in a single block.

Unfortunately COVID came along and money dried up across the board. The extra diagram was needed to spare two units for Glasgow southside services when the 314s left without replacement, and they were an easy target for savings as they were never the busiest. Winchburgh is in the final stages of hashing out how much of the cost ScotGov Vs West Lothian council are going to front, Bonnybridge has been dropped by the council as a priority scheme so thats in the long grass, and COVID delayed the purchasing of the new fleets by about five years when borrowing costs hit the roof.

 

[styles]

How widely is the name promoted? It occurs to me that these names get put in but you rarely see them on the trains, CIS, PIS, websites, timetables etc. and don't add much at all.

It is promoted well on the Glasgow Edinburgh express services. It features in most automated and manual announcements. In that respect it probably is useful for people wanting to make that journey and get there as soon as possible.

Other than that I'm not sure.

 

[numtot12345]

I'm sure Neilston has an Express service in the morning and evening that omits Cathcart<> Pollokshields East stations. Not sure if Newton has a comparable one of these that misses the Cathcart Circle stations?
Any other Glasgow Suburban routes which do this?

 

[EMU303]

The Cumbernauld service actually worked really well in the timetable. The problem was that it was established pre-Covid, during the days of forecasted 5% growth year on year, and basically free money.

It only used one extra diagram compared to the current set up, which has 1tph turning at Cumbernauld and the other going to Grahamston and reversing on the Grangemouth branch. The thinking was giving an even 2tph service to the Cumbernauld branch stations, plus picking up extra stops at Bonnybridge and Winchburgh when they opened. The extra diagram came from replacing the 314s, 318s and 320s in a single block.

Unfortunately COVID came along and money dried up across the board. The extra diagram was needed to spare two units for Glasgow southside services when the 314s left without replacement, and they were an easy target for savings as they were never the busiest. Winchburgh is in the final stages of hashing out how much of the cost ScotGov Vs West Lothian council are going to front, Bonnybridge has been dropped by the council as a priority scheme so thats in the long grass, and COVID delayed the purchasing of the new fleets by about five years when borrowing costs hit the roof.

I travel in and out of Queen St 2-3 times a week and it’s noticeable how much time the Cumbernauld/ F Grahamston trains remain on platform, over 25 minutes. I guess this is the only way to maintain a consistent 30 minutes frequency in both directions to/from Cumbernauld. But it sharply contrasts with Gla Edi trains which have a fast turnaround of approximately 8 mins, in a station which has only 7 platforms.

 

[The exile]

The ScotRail Express brand was bought in during the arrival of the 385s to boost promotion of the direct Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High route - it’s still the quickest way to travel between the two cities and at one point (not sure if it still does) have a 15 minute frequency. Don’t forget it is also now competing with very regular bus services which now includes Ember too.

“Brought back” rather than brought in. I would think it dates back to 1985/86 - whenever it was that ScotRail became a “thing”.

 

[waverley47]

I travel in and out of Queen St 2-3 times a week and it’s noticeable how much time the Cumbernauld/ F Grahamston trains remain on platform, over 25 minutes. I guess this is the only way to maintain a consistent 30 minutes frequency in both directions to/from Cumbernauld. But it sharply contrasts with Gla Edi trains which have a fast turnaround of approximately 8 mins, in a station which has only 7 platforms.

The current timetable works with one sat in Queen Street for 50 minutes in an hour, and another sat on the branch at Grangemouth for 30 minutes in an hour. It's not the most intensive use of resources, hence why it only required one extra diagram to run the whole thing through to Edinburgh.

To add, we could do the 'via Grahamston' services with a nine minutes turnaround in Waverley, and a mostly 12 minute turnaround at Queen Street. The departures from Glasgow were never perfectly even, they were always timed for a minute or two pathing time at the top of Cowlairs tunnel, inevitably waiting for something to come into Queen Street before crossing over the down line.

Unfortunately, I don't remember what the service timetable became, but we spent about three months in the EGIP planning rooms fitting it all together; the timetable, the infrastructure, and the planning. The final product was one of those rare moments where it all did come together to create a very comprehensive service across the board. Its a shame COVID came along and suddenly it all fell apart when the next lot of investments got kicked down the road a few years

 

[EMU303]

The current timetable works with one sat in Queen Street for 50 minutes in an hour, and another sat on the branch at Grangemouth for 30 minutes in an hour. It's not the most intensive use of resources, hence why it only required one extra diagram to run the whole thing through to Edinburgh.

To add, we could do the 'via Grahamston' services with a nine minutes turnaround in Waverley, and a mostly 12 minute turnaround at Queen Street. The departures from Glasgow were never perfectly even, they were always timed for a minute or two pathing time at the top of Cowlairs tunnel, inevitably waiting for something to come into Queen Street before crossing over the down line.

Unfortunately, I don't remember what the service timetable became, but we spent about three months in the EGIP planning rooms fitting it all together; the timetable, the infrastructure, and the planning. The final product was one of those rare moments where it all did come together to create a very comprehensive service across the board. Its a shame COVID came along and suddenly it all fell apart when the next lot of investments got kicked down the road a few years

It seems unlikely the through service to Edinburgh will return, a lack of demand as much as a lack of units?
When the station at Winchburgh is built it will likely be served by the existing Dunblane - Edi service?

 

[route101]

I remember using a Glasgow to Edinburgh ticket on the service via Cumbernauld to Edinburgh and the guard said it wasn't valid. I could not understand that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Oct 2026 ==

I'm sure Neilston has an Express service in the morning and evening that omits Cathcart<> Pollokshields East stations. Not sure if Newton has a comparable one of these that misses the Cathcart Circle stations?
Any other Glasgow Suburban routes which do this?

Checked the timetable and its only Balgray that gets omitted by the extra peak services. There is no express service anymore.

The East Kilbride line still has two afternoon peak with first stops Clarkston. There is no morning express services anymore.

I recall services on the Argyle Line omitting Bridgeton and Dalmarnock.

 

[Falcon1200]

Checked the timetable and its only Balgray that gets omitted by the extra peak services. There is no express service anymore.

I don't see any trains booked non-stop through Balgray? There as you say however no Neilston express services any more, which I had not realised!

 

[Kite159]

I don't see any trains booked non-stop through Balgray? There as you say however no Neilston express services any more, which I had not realised!

1N05 0808 Neilston to Glasgow Central
1N12 0750 Glasgow Central to Neilston

Both are nonstop Glasgow - Muirend and don't stop at Balgray.

Evening wise these two services at least don't call at Balgray otherwise call everywhere else:
2N34 1726 Glasgow Central to Neilston
2N31 1716 Neilston to Glasgow Central

 

[Falcon1200]

Thanks @Kite159; I checked RTT for Balgray rather than Neilston and as those trains do not have passing times they did not show! Rather odd that they miss Balgray, maybe calling there would disrupt pathing elsewhere?

 

[route101]

I’ve never seen that before, how common is that?

Not very, perhaps on Saturday when its an every 15 minute service.

 

[Bill57p9]

I'm sure Neilston has an Express service in the morning and evening that omits Cathcart<> Pollokshields East stations. Not sure if Newton has a comparable one of these that misses the Cathcart Circle stations?
Any other Glasgow Suburban routes which do this?

1737 Anderston to Carstairs skips Bridgeton, Dalmarnock and Motherwell (runs via Holytown without calling).

1630 Glasgow Central to Ayr is first stop Kilwinning, skipping Paisley Gilmour Street and Johnstone from the usual pattern, though running non-stop between Glasgow and Kilwinning was the usual half-hourly fast pattern before the COVID cuts

 

[Kite159]

.

1737 Anderston to Carstairs skips Bridgeton, Dalmarnock and Motherwell (runs via Holytown without calling).

1630 Glasgow Central to Ayr is first stop Kilwinning, skipping Paisley Gilmour Street and Johnstone from the usual pattern, though running non-stop between Glasgow and Kilwinning was the usual half-hourly fast pattern before the COVID cuts

That 16;30 to Ayr is an oddity considering it's too early for commuter traffic

 

[InvernessTMD]

Unfortunately COVID came along and money dried up across the board. The extra diagram was needed to spare two units for Glasgow southside services when the 314s left without replacement, and they were an easy target for savings as they were never the busiest. Winchburgh is in the final stages of hashing out how much of the cost ScotGov Vs West Lothian council are going to front, Bonnybridge has been dropped by the council as a priority scheme so thats in the long grass, and COVID delayed the purchasing of the new fleets by about five years when borrowing costs hit the roof.

Were there any plans for Bonnybridge other than "Yes we'll think about it" which turned into "Haha in your dreams" post-COVID? I know there was plenty of humming and hawing but I never saw any concrete ideas being put forward as to what it might look like