Lumo-only ticket (almost) same price as Any Permitted

[endecotp]

I have ended up buying a Lumo-only ticket by mistake. This is for the return half of an Edinburgh-Poole trip.

For 40 years I always bought "super saver returns" for this sort of journey. Now that's not possible and what I should do is to buy "super offpeak singles" for each half.

Somehow I got it wrong this time. On the forum's ticket site I entered dates for the outward and return journeys and selected "Flexible tickets only" in the "Filter" box. But then, I somehow I managed to buy a £124.40 "super offpeak single" for the outward journey and a £124.00 "Lumo & SWR Only Anytime Day Single" for the return. I guess I didn't notice the 40p difference and thought both tickets must be the same type.

This is annoying. I wanted "flexible" tickets, but a "Lumo-only" ticket very much isn't flexible, is it?

I am inclined to refund it - which I think I can do, for a small fee, right?

<rant over>

 

[jfollows]

But they all do it.
Avanti-only fares are marginally cheaper than “any permitted” on many flows.
Essentially designed to trick people who look for the lowest price to buy them.
10p difference has been mentioned before.
Originally the Avanti-only fares were inherited from Virgin-only and were a significant saving. Then the pricing managers got hold of them.
For example, for me, Avanti First Day Return Wilmslow-Manchester is now £21.50 versus £21.70 “any permitted”. So for 20p I deny myself the opportunity of using other trains, one of which also has first class sometimes. I used to use the Avanti-only fare when it was more like £11, but not any more.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 13:48 ==

They (Avanti, Lumo, etc.) used to be happy with receiving 100% of the TOC-only fares, versus a percentage of the “any permitted” fare which would have been less. Then they got greedy by trying to get 100% of a fare which was almost the same as the “any permitted” fare.

 

[Haywain]

They (Avanti, Lumo, etc.) used to be happy with receiving 100% of the TOC-only fares, versus a percentage of the “any permitted” fare which would have been less. Then they got greedy by trying to get 100% of a fare which was almost the same as the “any permitted” fare.

Using Lumo as an example, if they were to receive around 30% of the Any Permitted fare why would they simply price the Lumo only fare at that level when they know that the small number of people buying a flexible fare will actually happily pay 95% of the Any Permitted fare in return for the TOC only restriction? It's a commercial decision that is far from being greedy. Having said that, pricing it at 99.6% of the Any Permitted fare doesn't make sense to me as the differential is so small that most people who actually understand what they are buying will choose the one that nets Lumo the least money.

 

[gray1404]

Which retailer did you purchase the ticket with?

 

[jfollows]

Using Lumo as an example, if they were to receive around 30% of the Any Permitted fare why would they simply price the Lumo only fare at that level when they know that the small number of people buying a flexible fare will actually happily pay 95% of the Any Permitted fare in return for the TOC only restriction? It's a commercial decision that is far from being greedy. Having said that, pricing it at 99.6% of the Any Permitted fare doesn't make sense to me as the differential is so small that most people who actually understand what they are buying will choose the one that nets Lumo the least money.

Of course not, I agree, but charging 99.6% of the Any Permitted fare, or 99% in my example, is pretty objectionable to me - I know what they're up to but many people don't. Charging 50% of the Any Permitted, as Virgin used to do (approximately) made sense and was a reasonable compromise - Virgin got more money and I accepted the restrictions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 14:17 ==

Which retailer did you purchase the ticket with?

This forum. Which isn't responsible for pricing the fares, just for selling the tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

Of course not, I agree, but charging 99.6% of the Any Permitted fare, or 99% in my example, is pretty objectionable to me - I know what they're up to but many people don't. Charging 50% of the Any Permitted, as Virgin used to do (approximately) made sense and was a reasonable compromise - Virgin got more money and I accepted the restrictions.

Virgin's competition over most of their market offered a substantially inferior product.

 

[gray1404]

Then the OP will need to check the refund/exchange policy to see if they can change refund and rebook if they want the Any Permitted fare.

 

[jfollows]

Virgin's competition over most of their market offered a substantially inferior product.

In my case, a Pendolino first class seat (with no free food or drink, fair enough) versus a 323. For a similar price (especially before 09:30). Now the Pendolino may be refurbished but the Avanti-only fare is too much.

 

[endecotp]

Then the OP will need to check the refund/exchange policy to see if they can change refund and rebook if they want the Any Permitted fare.

I was hoping someone here would tell me that...

Following the refund instructions, they want me to take before-and-after photos having destroyed the paper tickets. I'd like to know how much of a refund I'm going to get before doing that!

(The site also doesn't have an obvious way to indicate that it's only the unused return tickets, bought in the same transaction as the outward tickets, that I want to refund. I guess there must be a way to do that?)

 

[jfollows]

From https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/terms-and-conditions

7. Admin Fees For Refunds

The maximum administrative fee is capped at £5 per booking reference. For ticket values exceeding £10, the admin fee remains at £5. In cases where the ticket value is less than £10, the administrative fee is set at half of the ticket value. Additionally, a minimum administrative fee of £1.25 has been introduced.

Ticket Value	Administrative Fee
Over £10	£5
£2.50 - £10	Half of Ticket Value
£1.30 - £2.45	£1.25
£1.25 or under	Non-refundable

 

[endecotp]

Thanks!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

But then, I somehow I managed to buy a £124.40 "super offpeak single" for the outward journey and a £124.00 "Lumo & SWR Only Anytime Day Single" for the return. I guess I didn't notice the 40p difference and thought both tickets must be the same type.

This is annoying. I wanted "flexible" tickets, but a "Lumo-only" ticket very much isn't flexible, is it?

Does potentially allow you to get from Edinburgh Waverley to London Kings Cross for 1044 (midweek) using Lumo, whereas It probably wouldn't be until 1201 using a direct LNER train, this due to the time restrictions applicable on the Super Off Peak Single.

 

[endecotp]

Does potentially allow you to get from Edinburgh Waverley to London Kings Cross for 1044 (midweek) using Lumo, whereas It probably wouldn't be until 1201 using a direct LNER train, this due to the time restrictions applicable on the Super Off Peak Single.

Right; also northbound there is quite a long afternoon / early evening period when the "super off peak single" isn't valid for Kings Cross departures. This isn't much of a concern for me in this case, and I didn't look at when the Lumo departures are compared to that period.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 17:18 ==

The site also doesn't have an obvious way to indicate that it's only the unused return tickets, bought in the same transaction as the outward tickets, that I want to refund. I guess there must be a way to do that?

Or not. That's a peculiar omission. Oh well, I've uploaded images of only the return tickets and I'll see what happens. (Well, I've uploaded them after I've worked out that to make it work I need to convert the .heic files from my iPhone to .jpeg!)

 

[Mainline421]

Unless you're going for cashback incentives I'd just buy this at the station, it's marginally faster than collecting it from the same machine or ticket office.

https://www.brfares.com/ is good if you do want to buy online

 

[Kite159]

Unless you're going for cashback incentives I'd just buy this at the station, it's marginally faster than collecting it from the same machine or ticket office.

https://www.brfares.com/ is good if you do want to buy online

Unless the OP wants to get a seat reservation for the Edinburgh - London leg and doesn't want to play the LNER game where a seat marked as available suddenly changes along the way and they get evicted at York and find themselves having to stand

 

[Mainline421]

Unless the OP wants to get a seat reservation for the Edinburgh - London leg and doesn't want to play the LNER game where a seat marked as available suddenly changes along the way and they get evicted at York and find themselves having to stand

That doesn't happen in Coach C.

 

[Kite159]

That doesn't happen in Coach C.

It does, unless you are in the know and can tell the difference between the seats which are completely unreservable showing Available and those seats which show available but can change along the way.

It's only around a third of that coach which are completely unreservable

 

[redreni]

Using Lumo as an example, if they were to receive around 30% of the Any Permitted fare why would they simply price the Lumo only fare at that level when they know that the small number of people buying a flexible fare will actually happily pay 95% of the Any Permitted fare in return for the TOC only restriction? It's a commercial decision that is far from being greedy.

I agree it's not personal greed by any individual.

Whether ordinary commercial practice is particularly far removed from greed is debatable.

Having said that, pricing it at 99.6% of the Any Permitted fare doesn't make sense to me as the differential is so small that most people who actually understand what they are buying will choose the one that nets Lumo the least money.

Who knows? Some of the most popular retailers don't always present these choices particularly clearly, in my humble opinion.

 

[yorkie]

I have ended up buying a Lumo-only ticket by mistake. This is for the return half of an Edinburgh-Poole trip.

For 40 years I always bought "super saver returns" for this sort of journey. Now that's not possible and what I should do is to buy "super offpeak singles" for each half.

Somehow I got it wrong this time. On the forum's ticket site I entered dates for the outward and return journeys and selected "Flexible tickets only" in the "Filter" box. But then, I somehow I managed to buy a £124.40 "super offpeak single" for the outward journey and a £124.00 "Lumo & SWR Only Anytime Day Single" for the return. I guess I didn't notice the 40p difference and thought both tickets must be the same type.

Within an hour it would be free to refund.

As it will obviously be longer than that now, if you rebook the correct ticket, and let me know the applicable reference numbers via direct conversation message, I will ask them if it can be waived on this occasion.

This is annoying. I wanted "flexible" tickets, but a "Lumo-only" ticket very much isn't flexible, is it?

I am inclined to refund it - which I think I can do, for a small fee, right?

<rant over>

TOC restrictions are a different concept to flexible Vs fixed.

If the suggestion is to exclude TOC specific fares from that filter, feel free to propose this in a separate thread and we can see what the majority view is, and put the feedback to the retailer to consider.

 

[endecotp]

if you rebook the correct ticket, and let me know the applicable reference numbers via direct conversation message, I will ask them if it can be waived on this occasion.

Thanks for the offer. I've now sent the refund application. I'll probably wait until the day I go before buying the replacement ticket.

 

[Mainline421]

It's only around a third of that coach which are completely unreservable

Which is lit up green, so quite easy to spot

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for the offer. I've now sent the refund application. I'll probably wait until the day I go before buying the replacement ticket

I'm not sure they would issue a fee free refund if you didn't book a replacement. The best thing to do would be to include the reference of the new ticket with your application .

If you had spotted within one hour, a refund would have been no problem at all

 

[Kite159]

Which is lit up green, so quite easy to spot

Any difference to the other green lights which can turn red all of a sudden?

 

[Mainline421]

Any difference to the other green lights which can turn red all of a sudden?

Unless I'm mistaken everything else is lit up orange now, and the reservation system will attempt to only allocate the reservable part of Coach C last. Certainly I've never been asked to move or seen it happen to anyone