Ploughman
Established Member
What route would it be using from Laisterdyke?
Via Leeds or relay the link to Bowling Tunnel.
Avoids any problems with the 1 in 50 gradients.
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Rail Freight Flows and News UK
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Via Leeds or relay the link to Bowling Tunnel.
Avoids any problems with the 1 in 50 gradients.
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RailUK Forums
S101
Member
I pesume it will be the same sort of idea that it was back in 2017, propel in, load up (quite short trains because of siding length) and run-round length at Interchange) then drive out to Bradford, run-round and on it's way either Calder Valley, or towards the L&Y depending on destination. The signalling does not allow for propelling movement out onto the UP and then towards Leeds. Whatever happens, it needs a run round at Bradford.
Adrian Barr
Member
It's traffic changing hands when contracts are won or lost (quite often you see press releases coming out saying haulier X has won a contract with company Y for Z years, or has renewed a contract). In this case it's a bit of a scrap swap like you say, with DB picking up flows to Liverpool and GBRF taking over 7Steel traffic to Cardiff Tidal. GBRF already have the contract for shunting at Tidal (plus already work into there with scrap traffic from Beeston - previously Burton - for the Ward terminal at Cardiff Docks).
I don't think there's usually much direct co-operation between companies in terms of hauling each other's flows, although there are some cases where more than one haulier is involved with the same flow (for example GBRF and DB from Portbury to Margam, and DB and Freightliner from Tunstead to Washwood Heath). In those cases if one haulier can't resource a requested train, the other might be able to. This also applies with engineering trains, where there are contracts in place between Network Rail and several different hauliers, but there might be some juggling of services between hauliers depending on resource availability (such as the number of traincrew that sign an unusual route).
Co-operation directly between hauliers can take the form of loco hires (short or long term) and sometimes hire of traincrew to cover gaps at short notice. Another example is DB maintaining the GBRF 60s at Toton (and also hauling them between Doncaster and Toton for exams or repairs). A few years ago DB sub-contracted a few of their flows to DCR (I assume due to crew availability) - resulting in pairs of 56s being seen operating out of Peak Forest, to Attercliffe for example, but I don't think that kind of sub-contracting of the entire haulage element happens very often.
Last time the Laisterdyke scrap train ran, I think it was split into two portions at Neville Hill. The loaded working ran round at Bradford Interchange and the gradients (and possibly the siding lengths too) meant the train was fairly short. Judging from the most recent photos, the last working was in 2017 (I believe the scrap was destined for Liverpool).
66185 with 9 wagons being loaded in the terminal in April 2017:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewshenton/34237797461/ (Photo: Andrew Shenton)
View of 66194 showing the connection to the main line (due to the layout, the train will have to follow the unit and head towards Bradford Interchange):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewshenton/27790038086/ (Photo: Andrew Shenton)
66185 in Bradford Interchange
https://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewshenton/34237795721/ (Photo: Andrew Shenton)
When was the last one? The Bradford bypass line is long gone so it’ll have to trundle out through Armley, something I could have looked out for if I still lived there!
S101
Member
2017 I think....
DBS92042
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Deferring from a post by Bristol Ports on Tiktok, the Whatley to Avonmouth (6B51/6C79) aggregate flow has now finished (with, I think, the last train running on 9th/10th September 2026 behind 66610)
distinctratio
Member
Anyone have an idea as to why why DB have increased the number of light loco runs between Dollands Moor and Ripple Lane this week? Usually there's only one run a week or sometimes fortnightly on a Friday under headcode 0L22 to and 0O20 back, for route retention I believe. But since Monday it's run every morning, 0Z20 to and 0Z23 return.
I know Barking Eurohub is set for redevelopment, but that seems like quite some time away for training runs to begin.
is there a new flow starting?
I know Barking Eurohub is set for redevelopment, but that seems like quite some time away for training runs to begin.
is there a new flow starting?
EastWest
Member
After a couple of workings to and from MOD Ashchurch in recent weeks, the first for many months, and then last week’s unusual MOD working from Fairwater Yard to Mossend, this past week has seen a working to MOD Warminster, also the first for a very long time.
Anyone might think there was a war going on...!
Solweytracker
Member
Unusual Gbrf working running today in Dan's list: 66678 GBEL KNGMORUTS 096Z843605 6 * AVONHGBRF N
which RealTimeTrains has as: 6Z84 0620 Carlisle N.Y. to Avonmouth Hanson Siding Gbrf, described as Building Materials and pathed with a 2000t trailing load, 27mph timing. KNGMORUTS translates as Kingmoor Up Through Siding. Anyone with more details e.g. is this to do with changes to the Clitheroe - Mossend cement traffic/FOC move away from Gbrf?
which RealTimeTrains has as: 6Z84 0620 Carlisle N.Y. to Avonmouth Hanson Siding Gbrf, described as Building Materials and pathed with a 2000t trailing load, 27mph timing. KNGMORUTS translates as Kingmoor Up Through Siding. Anyone with more details e.g. is this to do with changes to the Clitheroe - Mossend cement traffic/FOC move away from Gbrf?
zwk500
Veteran Member
It's a VSTP path, the 27mph is a data error.
Freightmaster
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It was formed off this working last Friday:
6C03 - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H01566/2026-10-02/detailed#allox_id=0
I guess Mossend was unable to accept that particular delivery??
geordieblue
Member
This press release from GBRf hints at some more changes to the 7 Steel (Cardiff Tidal) services, particularly in terms of outbound product : https://www.gbrailfreight.com/gb-railfreight-signs-long-term-agreement-with-7-steel-uk/
zwk500
Veteran Member
That is interesting, would they be able to run the same wagons loaded both ways or would it require separate sets?
Solweytracker
Member
Thanks Mark. Assuming consists are the same, then that 6C03 would have been the first loaded Mossend-bound Clitheroe cement for at least 2 weeks, possibly longer. Hence the flow is under closer observation.
Freightmaster
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The last delivery to Mossend was on Saturday September 19th.
SomeTrainboy
Member
Just seen a second aggregates load coming from Doncaster to Grimsby Pyewipe Road, very exciting!
muddythefish
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Impala have announced the closure of the Milford Haven site - is this the end of the oil tank traffic from Robeston?
That’s a shame, I think that was the only train that would on occasions bring a class 59 into the Bristol area, although never at a time when I’d be able to see it!
I guess so in the future, wonder if the Theale and Westerleigh depots will use another refinery instead? Lindsey?
stantheman
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One of the very infrequent Carlisle to Garelochhead Glen Douglas MOD ran yesterday with 66302 . Return should leave about now
i Just looked for that place on google maps, and there is a freight in Garelochead station platform on there, haha
waverley47
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That would be the daily (one day up, next day down) alcan, transporting alumina powder from near Newcastle up to Fort William.
Anything headed to Glen Douglas is MOD traffic, probably boxed in containers, and very unusual in that part of the world.
Freightmaster
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Lindsey refinery has closed unfortunately, although the sidings at Lindsey are sometimes used
to load trains from the nearby Humber refinery.
SomeTrainboy
Member
LOR has been bought by Phillips 66 (who own Humber Refinery) who uses it for storage, and still occasionally sends products from it by rail.
Trainman40083
Established Member
It all seems a long time ago, that Fina, Total and Conoco were the Humberside operators
Portbury steel traffic is still being operated by GBRf and DB Cargo, both operators having a daily train. It was suggested that DB would take over to free up GBRF drivers for RHTT work, but with that work now underway the GBRF workings have continued.
The DB trains commenced on 21st September with 66185 which ended up running quite late. Possibly this had an issue getting up the slope out of the docks, as subsequent trains have all been hauled by heavy haul 66s (66651-66660 series), until today when 66109 made an appearance.
When this service first started in 2024 the climb out of the dock was an issue, partly due to vegetation around the line, and the initial solution was to double head trains until heavy haul 66s (which were under conversion at the time) became available a couple of weeks later.
The DB trains commenced on 21st September with 66185 which ended up running quite late. Possibly this had an issue getting up the slope out of the docks, as subsequent trains have all been hauled by heavy haul 66s (66651-66660 series), until today when 66109 made an appearance.
When this service first started in 2024 the climb out of the dock was an issue, partly due to vegetation around the line, and the initial solution was to double head trains until heavy haul 66s (which were under conversion at the time) became available a couple of weeks later.
muddythefish
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I've read Westerleigh will be served by sea to Avonmouth and then road. Don't know about Theale.
There used to up to 15 oil trains a day to and from the three Milford Haven refineries when I was holidaying in Pembrokeshire in the 1970s. Wagonload freight, parcels and sleeper trains were running too. Spent many happy hours in Johnston signal box watching them.
The Robeston oil traffic is down to 3 trains a week now, and from December there will be nothing. With the Fishguard freight traffic also long gone, freight traffic in Pembrokeshire / West Wales will be finished.
How would that work for Westerleigh? Would the trains go from Avonmouth via Hallen Marsh and reverse by Gloucester Yard - which they would do previously from Milford Haven?
zwk500
Veteran Member
as the post says 'and then road' so it'd be presumably via M5 and M4.