Italians working on British Rail in the 1950s?

[Mauro]

Do you have any idea where the photo may have been taken? From what can be seen of the loco it would appear to be a tank engine. The combination of the inclined cylinders and the cutaway into the tank above the framing just ahead of the change in the framing line suggest it is an LNER L-1 class 2-6-4T introduced in 1945. IIRC there were a hundred or so of these built for London suburban services. Others will know where else they may have got to by 1951.

Good knowledge. The photo was taken in London but I have no idea whereabouts. Thanks for replying.

 

[Rescars]

Good knowledge. The photo was taken in London but I have no idea whereabouts. Thanks for replying.

Presumably somewhere on the Eastern Region not too far from King's Cross or Liverpool Street then. Or were L-1s to be found at Marylebone?

 

[BBF3]

I have some 1960s logbooks from Newton Abbot depot and a couple of Italian names are mentioned as fitters.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for this! I agree they would have worked really hard on the tracks. We actually had another relative who died working on the tracks during this time. I've lost touch with that side of the family now but I remember hearing the story growing up. And thank you about what you said recognising their contributions to the British railways. I think that's why I've been keen to do the research. I'll keep you all posted if I find anything else.

Thanks for those points.
There's in interesting recent thread on here discussing the danger level of jobs like these by comparison with danger faced in the mining industry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2026 ==

Thanks for all your contributions and suggestions. If it helps I'm posting a picture here of my grandad with some fellow Italian workers. It would have been taken circa 1951/52. Does anyone recognise the train they are standing in front of? Or where it may have been taken? It's a long shot I know! Thank you.

Interesting to see your picture, thanks for posting it.
I was going to say that there will be people on the forum who can probably identify the type of railway engine despite the limited amount of it in the picture, and I see some posts on that. It looks like a goods train type Guards Van is directly behind the engine in the picture, although I can't identify the type myself.

 

[Gloster]

I was going to say that there will be people on the forum who can probably identify the type of railway engine despite the limited amount of it in the picture, and I see some posts on that. It looks like a goods train type Guards Van is directly behind the engine in the picture, although I can't identify the type myself.

The van could be an ex-LNER Toad E, but it is not possible to be sure.

 

[WesternLancer]

The van could be an ex-LNER Toad E, but it is not possible to be sure.

Which would fit with the idea it is an LNER loco operating in the London area somewhere on an LNER route (for the OP's benefit not limited to routes that the 'modern' LNER trains services use).

Presumably it would be possible to list which engine sheds the L1 Class tank locomotives that operated LNER suburban services were allocated to in the early 1950s. Not that the photograph is necessarily taken at an engine shed location but may well give an idea on the areas of operation of the engines, and thus a bit of a sense of where the phot might have been taken.

 

[Gloster]

Which would fit with the idea it is an LNER loco operating in the London area somewhere on an LNER route (for the OP's benefit not limited to routes that the 'modern' LNER trains services use).

Presumably it would be possible to list which engine sheds the L1 Class tank locomotives that operated LNER suburban services were allocated to in the early 1950s. Not that the photograph is necessarily taken at an engine shed location but may well give an idea on the areas of operation of the engines, and thus a bit of a sense of where the phot might have been taken.

The LNER Encyclopedia says that in the early 1950s they were concentrated at Stratford, Neasden and Ipswich, with smaller numbers at Kings Cross, Hornsey, Hitchin, Norwich, Lowestoft, Darlington and Botanic Gardens (Hull). A few may have been in Scotland early on, but the Encyclopedia is confused on this and I can’t trace them elsewhere. From the mid-1950s they seem to have become widespread across the Eastern Region (for the OP, this was the eastern part of England from London up to York).

 

[Merle Haggard]

Which would fit with the idea it is an LNER loco operating in the London area somewhere on an LNER route (for the OP's benefit not limited to routes that the 'modern' LNER trains services use).

Presumably it would be possible to list which engine sheds the L1 Class tank locomotives that operated LNER suburban services were allocated to in the early 1950s. Not that the photograph is necessarily taken at an engine shed location but may well give an idea on the areas of operation of the engines, and thus a bit of a sense of where the phot might have been taken.

Mr Thomson intended them as true mixed-traffic engines. Early experience showed that they weren't entirely successful on heavy unfitted mineral trains - could start them but not stop them. Tenders provide a fair bit of brake power.

Their condition soon ran down after works and there nick-name was 'cement mixer' because of the noise and vibration experienced by engiineman. Probably pick-up goods, as seen in the photo, was the best use of them. Very unpleasant at speed when run down, it was said.

They had very short lives, and a Woodford one spent most of its life of about 12 years ambling to Banbury and back, usually with just a Thomson BCK

 

[70014IronDuke]

Presumably somewhere on the Eastern Region not too far from King's Cross or Liverpool Street then. Or were L-1s to be found at Marylebone?

Well, I don't now for how long, but yes, I've seen at least one photo of and L1 on the GC joint,

AIUI, they were not9iously rough riding.

 

[Gloster]

Well, I don't now for how long, but yes, I've seen at least one photo of and L1 on the GC joint,

AIUI, they were not9iously rough riding.

Half the fleet were at Neasden at sometime or other up to the end of 1961, when the last two left. How many were there at any given time varied, but probably often into double figures. Woodford Halse also had a small number from the mid-1950s to early 1960s.

 

[30907]

Half the fleet were at Neasden at sometime or other up to the end of 1961, when the last two left. How many were there at any given time varied, but probably often into double figures. Woodford Halse also had a small number from the mid-1950s to early 1960s.

Weren't they used Rickmansworth-Aylesbury until 1960, presumably out of Neasden? FWIW I agree it's an L1 - and I think I had one from Stratford to Palace Gates in about 1962.

 

[norbitonflyer]

There were a lot of refugee camps in former Army / RAF bases right across the country for Polish soldiers and their families who fought for the Allies and who couldn't return home after the Communist takeover in 1948.

My sisters's inlaws were an Polish/italian couple who settled here after WW2. He worked here as a coal miner. Not sure how they met, but he had been a commando during the war.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2026 ==

Reading Signal Works used to have its own 0-4-0 Drewry (?) shunter, number 20.

Ruston & Hornsby, built 1957. A meagre 88hp engine.
Why it had that number I don't know. (Surely the signal works had not had nineteen previous shunting engines?)
Eventually replaced by a class 06.

All Drewry shunters built for BR were six wheelers. A four wheeler was built for the LMS but was sold to the War Department in 1943. It is now in the NRM.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2026 ==

Presumably it would be possible to list which engine sheds the L1 Class tank locomotives that operated LNER suburban services were allocated to in the early 1950s. Not that the photograph is necessarily taken at an engine shed location but may well give an idea on the areas of operation of the engines, and thus a bit of a sense of where the phot might have been taken.

"Longworth" says they were intended for suburban work out of Kings Cross and Marylebone, but also worked in Yorkshire.
The first was built at Doncaster Works in 1945, but the other 99 were built after nationalisation, in less than three years, at Darlington Works or by outside contractors. All withdrawn in the early sixties after the work they were built for was taken over by diesel units.

 

[Rescars]

Their condition soon ran down after works and there nick-name was 'cement mixer' because of the noise and vibration experienced by engiineman. Probably pick-up goods, as seen in the photo, was the best use of them. Very unpleasant at speed when run down, it was said.

Is the photo a pick-up goods or could it be a pw or ballast train? Alternative good use for unpopular motive power! If Mauro's grandad and chums were platelayers, might this be a photo of them with "their" train? They all look neat and fresh. Photo taken at the start of the shift whilst waiting for the line to clear so they can make a start perhaps?

 

[Gloster]

Ruston & Hornsby, built 1957. A meagre 88hp engine.
Why it had that number I don't know. (Surely the signal works had not had nineteen previous shunting engines?)
Eventually replaced by a class 06.

I don’t know definitely, but one possibility was that as the loco was only to be used in the Signal Works or the adjacent sidings, it was numbered in in the S&T Department’s own equipment numbering system. There was no need to number it in the railway’s main system as it never ventured out onto rails that were the responsibility of the Traffic Department.

But this is getting off topic.

 

[newtownmgr]

We had quite a few Italians at Worcester. Many came originally to work at Metal Box but drifted onto the Railway. Before I started there were a few on the loco depot and in the loco works. By the time i started it was just 3 on the platforms. The son of one is a TM for GWR at Worcester.

 

[Merle Haggard]

/snip

Ruston & Hornsby, built 1957. A meagre 88hp engine.
Why it had that number I don't know. (Surely the signal works had not had nineteen previous shunting engines?)
Eventually replaced by a class 06.

All Drewry shunters built for BR were six wheelers. A four wheeler was built for the LMS but was sold to the War Department in 1943. It is now in the NRM.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2026 ==


"/snip

The GWR had some small Simplex petrol shunting locos of the usual very small type built by them numbered 15, 23, 24, 26, 27.All were in service stock and the last, 27, was at Reading Signal Works and I think replaced by 20

For the spotter, service locos numbered in weird series always seemed a good catch. Northampton had a very temperamental Fowler diesel, ED4 but for eccentricity what can beat ZM32?

 

[Taunton]

I don’t know definitely, but one possibility was that as the loco was only to be used in the Signal Works or the adjacent sidings, it was numbered in in the S&T Department’s own equipment numbering system. There was no need to number it in the railway’s main system as it never ventured out onto rails that were the responsibility of the Traffic Department.

Not always so. The WR's locos numbered in the PWM650-4 (Permanent Way Machine) were normally at PW depots in the week, but worked out all around the line at weekends to wherever relaying jobs were taking place. Only when the load was beyond them, either weight or distance, would a loco be obtained from the Traffic Department. PWM652 was Taunton Fairwater's resident machine, and also often came down to the loco depot on Fridays prior to such excursions to refuel.

 

[AndrewE]

On a summer trip to the continent by rail and sea, maybe in about 1976, we travelled south from Victoria. I remember seeing from the Boat Train not far from the start a P-Way bothy in the middle of the tracks which had a lovely vine trellis to provide shade in front of it. I thought then that it was probably the product of (or influenced by) Italian P-Way workers!