Funeral arrangements discussion

[Shaw S Hunter]

A number of comments have been made about the apparent increase in the delay between a death and subsequent funeral.

In September 2024 the law in England and Wales was changed meaning that GPs no longer have the authority to issue a formal death certificate; this also meant they no longer receive a fee for doing so. Instead they fill out a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD). Then, unless the nature of the death requires it reporting to the Coroner, the MCCD is passed to a Medical Examiner, typically a Registrar at the local NHS hospital, who must then scrutinise it and satisfy themself that all is above board. Only then can the MCCD be forwarded to the local Registrar to allow the formal registration of death to take place. Any disposal of a body can only happen once the death has been formally registered.

This change inevitably led to a backlog of work as the Medical Examiners suddenly had an additional workload to manage. Given the state of the NHS I don't suppose the backlog will ease very much.

 

[Trackman]

It all seems straightforward but lacks (for me) the grieving process.

I agree, my Dad was direct to crem, it was sort of something was missing afterwards and to this day too.
These were his wishes when he was terminally ill as he didnt want any fuss.
My Mum was the same, only given 2 years to live and lasted 2 years, but the family overuled and there was a funeral. It was a traditional Scottish crem service (My mum was not Scottish, but lived there), that was all a bit strange on how they bring them in and slide them into a 'tent'.

 

[35B]

A number of comments have been made about the apparent increase in the delay between a death and subsequent funeral.

In September 2024 the law in England and Wales was changed meaning that GPs no longer have the authority to issue a formal death certificate; this also meant they no longer receive a fee for doing so. Instead they fill out a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death (MCCD). Then, unless the nature of the death requires it reporting to the Coroner, the MCCD is passed to a Medical Examiner, typically a Registrar at the local NHS hospital, who must then scrutinise it and satisfy themself that all is above board. Only then can the MCCD be forwarded to the local Registrar to allow the formal registration of death to take place. Any disposal of a body can only happen once the death has been formally registered.

This change inevitably led to a backlog of work as the Medical Examiners suddenly had an additional workload to manage. Given the state of the NHS I don't suppose the backlog will ease very much.

As I explained at my father’s funeral to a cousin from County Cork, this is a policy that punishes everyone to try to prevent a future Harold Shipman.

It is not that the funeral can’t be held till the MCCD is in place but that it can’t be planned that is so awful. The earliest that my father’s funeral could have been held was 5 weeks after death; we had to wait 8 to get a reasonable slot that people could travel for and to sidestep an immovable diary commitment in the family.

A friend’s wife died in the hospice at about the same time; the MCCD took nearly a month to come through despite their being nothing “interesting” about her death. At least my father’s was unexpected and there was the (cold) comfort of knowing that proper interest was being taken.

 

[Ligeraceaster]

Even the cost of a fairly bog standard funeral is expensive. Both my parents died within 6 months of each other in 2022 and the cost per funeral was circa £4,250. For that we got a basic veneer coffin (green for my dad and medium wood for my mum in our only nod to extravagance), an ashes container for the interment, a hearse, a spray of flowers for the coffin, a photo slide show and a celebrant for the funeral itself. I would say however that in my experience the funeral directors were brilliant.

I actually remember asking about a cardboard coffin or something similar, as I know my mum especially would have wanted it to be comparatively eco friendly and not expensive, and the cost of a cardboard coffin was almost 3x that of a veneer one. I couldn't believe the difference.

It took around 2 weeks from death to the funeral, which I thought was a long time considering that of my grandparents all seemed to happen within the week.

 

[35B]

Even the cost of a fairly bog standard funeral is expensive. Both my parents died within 6 months of each other in 2022 and the cost per funeral was circa £4,250. For that we got a basic veneer coffin (green for my dad and medium wood for my mum in our only nod to extravagance), an ashes container for the interment, a hearse, a spray of flowers for the coffin, a photo slide show and a celebrant for the funeral itself. I would say however that in my experience the funeral directors were brilliant.

I actually remember asking about a cardboard coffin or something similar, as I know my mum especially would have wanted it to be comparatively eco friendly and not expensive, and the cost of a cardboard coffin was almost 3x that of a veneer one. I couldn't believe the difference.

It took around 2 weeks from death to the funeral, which I thought was a long time considering that of my grandparents all seemed to happen within the week.

One of the major constraints is the availability of timeslots at the crematorium - I know that when we were organising my father's, we were told to expect a couple of weeks unless we were willing to try to fit in with an odd spare slot in their schedule.

 

[Ligeraceaster]

One of the major constraints is the availability of timeslots at the crematorium - I know that when we were organising my father's, we were told to expect a couple of weeks unless we were willing to try to fit in with an odd spare slot in their schedule.

Absolutely. We were fortunate enough that we weren't wedded to any specific day, although we did want the early afternoon as my sister was the only one who had to come from further afield than Leicestershire. In the end we compromised at around midday to get it in a bit sooner. If we'd wanted a Saturday we could have been waiting a lot longer.

We were also very fortunate that we had a plot already there in the cemetery. If we'd been in a position to have to buy one then we may have had to resort to scattering them as I was told it's around £900 nowadays. My grandad paid around £125 in 1996.

 

[dosxuk]

One of the major constraints is the availability of timeslots at the crematorium

It's not so much the availability of slots and more about the availability of slots that people want. There are almost certainly slots available in your local crems today, but if you want a Friday at 2pm you'll be waiting for weeks. Ask for a Tuesday at 9am and you'll probably get in even this week.

Early and late slots are less popular, and Friday is far more popular than the other days.

 

[Puffing Devil]

For my MIL's funeral, she had a C of E service, then she was taken directly to be cremated while friends and family went to the wake. Her ashes were collected by the undertaker, then there was a brief interment in a family plot with just my wife and her brother some time later. It seems pointless having two "services" and it worked well for everyone.

 

[35B]

For my MIL's funeral, she had a C of E service, then she was taken directly to be cremated while friends and family went to the wake. Her ashes were collected by the undertaker, then there was a brief interment in a family plot with just my wife and her brother some time later. It seems pointless having two "services" and it worked well for everyone.

I've seen various permutations of:
* Funeral service
* Cremation
* Interment
* Memorial Service

For my great-aunt, all 4 were involved. The funeral in her parish church, followed by a brief cremation ceremony, (both family/close friends only), with wake, and then a few weeks later a memorial service for her wider circle (I was at all 3). There was also an interment service at some point, where her ashes were buried with my great-uncle's, which was I believe just her immediate family.

When my father's ashes were interred, it was a good opportunity for the wider family to get together and say farewell - not everyone could be at the funeral, and it allowed a more spacious chance to remember him in the round.

 

[Ligeraceaster]

When my father's ashes were interred, it was a good opportunity for the wider family to get together and say farewell - not everyone could be at the funeral, and it allowed a more spacious chance to remember him in the round.

I would say when interring my mum's ashes about a week after the funeral, it felt far more final and upsetting than the entire funeral itself did for me.

 

[35B]

I would say when interring my mum's ashes about a week after the funeral, it felt far more final and upsetting than the entire funeral itself did for me.

I can relate to that.

 

[E27007]

I would say when interring my mum's ashes about a week after the funeral, it felt far more final and upsetting than the entire funeral itself did for me.

The family interring the ashes indeed the most dignified part of the process. in my experience Crematoriums are run like a factory production line governed by a stopwatch, get the coffin in, the participants in and chased out, the hearses being controlled by a traffic light queueing system, red for wait, green to proceed to the entrance

 

[Ken X]

With due respect to those who, understandably, find death an upsetting experience, our families are reasonably laid back about death and funerals. Which, as it turned out, is quite fortunate.

My lovely mother-in-law died (due to a road traffic accident) on 14th February, so every Valentines day we not only send cards, but raise a glass to her, which she would have found most amusing.

My mum died due to a heart attack on 17th March 2020, a few days before Boris shut the country down. The fun that caused was memorable as nobody really knew how to process her or the burial under lockdown.

The funeral directors turned up at her nursing home in black everything including face masks. The manager said it looked like a cross between the mafia and a steam punk convention.

Their grave caused challenges as it turned out to be owned by my dad. Unfortunately he was already in residence and the legal process of transferring ownership to me did not seem straightforward, further complicated by the combination of lockdown and distance. I now own a grave containing both parents.

The funeral was never going to happen. My brother had the great idea of commissioning a wedding photographer (who had absolutely no work due to lock down) to record the internment. She was very reluctant to take the job, but we reassured her it would be fine and just treat it as an exercise in recording the event. She produced a fantastic album for us.

The internment was attended by my brother and I with partners, together with the priest and photographer. The six of us arrived in separate cars, waved across the grave and left the same way. Very surreal and memorable in its own way. Mum, who was born in 1932, became a wartime child and put up with so much in her life, ended it in as unique a way as she started it.

 

[Ediswan]

The family interring the ashes indeed the most dignified part of the process. in my experience Crematoriums are run like a factory production line governed by a stopwatch, get the coffin in, the participants in and chased out, the hearses being controlled by a traffic light queueing system, red for wait, green to proceed to the entrance

I have never seen traffic lights, just well organised crematoria and funeral directors.

At my mother's cremation, the crematorium fountain was (a) frozen and (b) bright blue. Even the funeral director was unable to remain solemn. Somebody had accidentally added a whole sack of biocide.

 

[Magdalia]

in my experience Crematoriums are run like a factory production line governed by a stopwatch, get the coffin in, the participants in and chased out,

For me, Cambridge Crematorium always feels like this. I haven't seen traffic lights, but it does have a "one way system" for those attending the funeral service.

My brother had the great idea of commissioning a wedding photographer (who had absolutely no work due to lock down) to record the internment. She was very reluctant to take the job, but we reassured her it would be fine and just treat it as an exercise in recording the event.

This is the first time I've heard of a funeral photographer. One of the weird contrasts between weddings and funerals is that photography is a central part of weddings but still taboo at most funerals.

 

[Floss63]

As I explained at my father’s funeral to a cousin from County Cork, this is a policy that punishes everyone to try to prevent a future Harold Shipman.

It is not that the funeral can’t be held till the MCCD is in place but that it can’t be planned that is so awful. The earliest that my father’s funeral could have been held was 5 weeks after death; we had to wait 8 to get a reasonable slot that people could travel for and to sidestep an immovable diary commitment in the family.

A friend’s wife died in the hospice at about the same time; the MCCD took nearly a month to come through despite their being nothing “interesting” about her death. At least my father’s was unexpected and there was the (cold) comfort of knowing that proper interest was being taken.

My dad died aged 96 in hospital in March this year and it took three working days for the death to be certified. The MCCD was emailed to the Register Office on the same day and we got an appointment that afternoon to register his death. So thankfully we didn't have to wait too long, although I know that's not everyone's experience.

Dad had always wanted a 'traditional' funeral. Whenever one of the direct cremation adverts came on, he would say "I don't want one of those!" and I promised we would do as he wanted. He even wrote in his will that he wanted us to use the local funeral directors. He told me in advance what hymns and music he wanted, which made things easier. Because our family is scattered, and between us all we had a number of diary commitments, the funeral was held five weeks after his death. Booking so far ahead, we had the pick of the slots at Southend Crematorium, and as each slot is an hour long, we didn't feel rushed at all, in fact there was plenty of time. But I am only speaking from my own experience.

The celebrant was a Baptist minister who was willing to include as much or as little Christianity as we (or rather Dad) wanted. So we had the Lord's Prayer and two hymns, but also a visual tribute and secular music and readings. I think dad would have been pleased.