Large gaps in Elizabeth line west of Paddington

[Gareth1990]

I’ve just noticed that the timetable has been tweaked to leave large gaps, this is not what was promised. Crossrail was pitched as giving a frequent service for the local stations between Paddington and Reading so why have they made this change?

 

[yorkie]

I’ve just noticed that the timetable has been tweaked to leave large gaps, this is not what was promised. Crossrail was pitched as giving a frequent service for the local stations between Paddington and Reading so why have they made this change?

Do you have any examples?

 

[Gareth1990]

Do you have any examples?

Now, a large 12 minute gap between the 15:02 to Heathrow and the 15;14 to Reading at Bond Street, there was always an 8 minute gap before for trains west of Paddington

 

[berneyarms]

I’ve just noticed that the timetable has been tweaked to leave large gaps, this is not what was promised. Crossrail was pitched as giving a frequent service for the local stations between Paddington and Reading so why have they made this change?

That service pattern has been in place on Saturdays since last December.

 

[Kilopylae]

Now, a large 12 minute gap between the 15:02 to Heathrow and the 15;14 to Reading at Bond Street, there was always an 8 minute gap before for trains west of Paddington

"large 12 minute gap" would appear to be a contradiction in terms.

 

[Watershed]

"large 12 minute gap" would appear to be a contradiction in terms.

When you consider how busy the flows to the likes of Ealing Broadway are, it is not at all a contradiction. Imagine if there was a 12 minute gap in Tube services - it's basically the same thing in terms of crowding.

 

[WAO]

... and Reading still has only a half hourly EL service. Some Crossrail.

WAO

 

[Benjwri]

That service pattern has been in place on Saturdays since last December.

Longer than that, there’s been a 12 minute gap between the stopping Terminal 4 and the Reading since the final timetable started.

It is just the reality of the constraints of the GWML, with a freight path trying to fit in and the Reading path catching up with the Heathrow. I can’t say I’ve ever found the crowding on it to be that bad out of disruption.

... and Reading still has only a half hourly EL service. Some Crossrail.

WAO

‘Still’? Reading was never promised anything more (of course it was offered nothing to begin with). The trains are not particularly well used between Maidenhead and Reading, for fairly obvious reasons, there is no real justification for any more trains out of the peak, nor is there the space.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2026 ==

When you consider how busy the flows to the likes of Ealing Broadway are, it is not at all a contradiction. Imagine if there was a 12 minute gap in Tube services - it's basically the same thing in terms of crowding.

I would disagree here. The Elizabeth Line is undeniably significantly less frequent than a tube line, especially past Paddington, which is made up for in capacity. But it isn’t a 12 minute gap in a tube service, it’s a single missing train, so a 4-5 minute gap on the Victoria and Jubilee, maybe 8 minutes on some lines.

The Reading trains are busy at weekends, but that busy, and the loading data in Darwin backs this up. The suffer from the classic issue of uneven distribution but there is never any trouble getting on and having plenty of space at the back in my experience and according to the data. Around half the passenger continue on the train past Hayes anyways, so I’m not totally convinced it’s solely an issue of the uneven frequency anyways.

 

[Horizon22]

Now, a large 12 minute gap between the 15:02 to Heathrow and the 15;14 to Reading at Bond Street, there was always an 8 minute gap before for trains west of Paddington

That's the largest gap, so you were unlucky. It's still 10tph, and that xx02 just 3 minutes after a Terminal 5 service, which itself is 3 minutes after a Maidenhead service.

That gap occurs because there are additional Paddington terminators from Gidea Park / Abbey Wood after ~1100 as part of the timetable uplift in the central section, the most "tube-like" element of the line.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2026 ==

... and Reading still has only a half hourly EL service. Some Crossrail.

WAO

Reading has a 25 minute GWR service every 7-8 minutes to Paddington where you can then connect with the 20+ trains per hour with relative ease.

 

[boiledbeans2]

It may be a 12 min gap at Bond Street, but by Hayes & Harlington, it narrows to 6 min based on the timetable in post #4.

In contrast, the 1259 departure (from Bond Street) immediately before the 1302 has a 3 min gap at Bond Street, but widens to 7 min at Hayes & Harlington!

 

[WAO]

I think that there are too many terminators at Paddington, Westbound, evidenced anecdotally by crowding onwards. True Reading has 4 trains per hour in the peak but I find seats rarely available on peak much before Maidenhead, even with 9 cars. Paddington fasts are irrelevant to travel within the Thames Valley. 12 minutes is a long gap on the underground. Old Oak Common will improve matters a bit, with the EL Birmingham branch!

WAO

 

[Benjwri]

Sadly there isn’t any room for more capacity. The Elizabeth Line is meant to be like, as you keep calling it, a tube. Not everyone will get a seat and it’s designed around maximising total capacity not seated capacity. If the criteria is getting a seat both sides of the line, and the central section, are horrifically overcrowded.

I find it quite rare for it to be horribly busy past Paddington at the weekend, especially if you don’t always go at the front.

 

[Crithylum]

I think there is room for rejigging the Saturday timetable so the Abbey Wood-Pad terminator is adjacent to the Shenfield-T5.
This would leave only a 9 minute gap

 

[Purple Train]

Sadly there isn’t any room for more capacity. The Elizabeth Line is meant to be like, as you keep calling it, a tube. Not everyone will get a seat and it’s designed around maximising total capacity not seated capacity. If the criteria is getting a seat both sides of the line, and the central section, are horrifically overcrowded.

I find it quite rare for it to be horribly busy past Paddington at the weekend, especially if you don’t always go at the front.

I think this is fair. Avoid the front two carriages and it's usually not that bad.

The gaps in services west of Paddington can be frustrating, but they have never caused me actual trouble. The worst element of it as far as I'm concerned is that eastbound services from Reading/Maidenhead run at 18-12-18-12 intervals through Slough (or certainly used to) and every single time I miss a train, I miss the one with an 18-minute gap afterwards, and have to twiddle my thumbs for a whole extra six minutes

 

[crablab]

... and Reading still has only a half hourly EL service. Some Crossrail.

You wouldn't take the EL from Reading to Paddington; there's no cost advantage to doing so and it takes an extra 40 minutes.

GWR run semi-fasts stopping at the outer Thames Valley stations (Maidenhead, Twyford, Slough) so the EL is mostly providing capacity between them and Reading, not going into London.

I find seats rarely available on peak much before Maidenhead, even with 9 cars. Paddington fasts are irrelevant to travel within the Thames Valley.

My experience of Westbound peak services is crush loading to around Ealing Broadway and busy until West Drayton-ish.

Yes it's well used, this is a good thing.

If you're travelling further out then take a GWR service to Slough/Maidenhead and change - EL Westbound from the core during rush hour is primarily serving stations inside the M25.

 

[WAO]

The Elizabeth Line is meant to be like, as you keep calling it, a tube.

??

You wouldn't take the EL from Reading to Paddington; there's no cost advantage to doing so and it takes an extra 40 minutes.

No OP tickets valid on GWR services back in evening peak. "Extra" time avoids the change at Paddington, with poorer tube stock and links.

WAO

 

[Benjwri]

I think there is room for rejigging the Saturday timetable so the Abbey Wood-Pad terminator is adjacent to the Shenfield-T5.
This would leave only a 9 minute gap

It isn’t about the terminator. It’s a convenient gap for it to go but the time difference is because the Heathrow is significantly slower than the Reading, and is only 6 minutes by Hayes. If you make the gap closer it just means the Reading will be sitting behind the Heathrow at every station it stops at. Not to mention in a few hours they try to slot a freight path between the two.

 

[Crithylum]

It isn’t about the terminator. It’s a convenient gap for it to go but the time difference is because the Heathrow is significantly slower than the Reading, and is only 6 minutes by Hayes. If you make the gap closer it just means the Reading will be sitting behind the Heathrow at every station it stops at. Not to mention in a few hours they try to slot a freight path between the two.

The reason for such a big speed difference is that to make the Saturday timetable work, the stopper before the Reading leaves Paddington 3 minutes earlier than normal.

By moving the Shenfield-T5 and Abbey Wood-T4 services behind a pair of terminators, the T4 can depart Paddington at 11/41 past, and using the standard running times, arrives at H&H 4 minutes before the Reading.

 

[mickey]

‘Still’? Reading was never promised anything more (of course it was offered nothing to begin with). The trains are not particularly well used between Maidenhead and Reading, for fairly obvious reasons, there is no real justification for any more trains out of the peak, nor is there the space.

They were promised at least as good as the previous service, which absolutely has not been delivered. Services between Maidenhead and Reading now run at 4-26-4-26 min intervals, which has effectively reduced the previous 4tph to 2tph (albeit with a small buffer in case you just miss one) and given considerably longer waits if connecting onwards.

 

[Benjwri]

They were promised at least as good as the previous service, which absolutely has not been delivered. Services between Maidenhead and Reading now run at 4-26-4-26 min intervals, which has effectively reduced the previous 4tph to 2tph (albeit with a small buffer in case you just miss one) and given considerably longer waits if connecting onwards.

Yes this is true, and a result of GWR cutting back to semi fast services that has led to disadvantages for a range of journeys (When they did it this almost doubled one of my most common journeys at the time)

 

[evergreenadam]

Yes this is true, and a result of GWR cutting back to semi fast services that has led to disadvantages for a range of journeys (When they did it this almost doubled one of my most common journeys at the time)

Would be better if EL ran x15mins to Reading off-peak. Then a good frequency of service would be provided to all stations from Reading.

 

[Benjwri]

Would be better if EL ran x15mins to Reading off-peak. Then a good frequency of service would be provided to all stations from Reading.

Reading just doesn't warrant such a service. There isn't the demand out of peak and the paths it would need are in far higher demand in London.

 

[Horizon22]

Would be better if EL ran x15mins to Reading off-peak. Then a good frequency of service would be provided to all stations from Reading.

For what benefit? It would be only be for the benefit of Twyford and Reading residents and even then limited.

Reading to Maidenhead is about a 13 minute journey, which in metro services is actually quite long to do just 3 stops.

They were promised at least as good as the previous service, which absolutely has not been delivered. Services between Maidenhead and Reading now run at 4-26-4-26 min intervals, which has effectively reduced the previous 4tph to 2tph (albeit with a small buffer in case you just miss one) and given considerably longer waits if connecting onwards.

That’s due to the timing of the GWR service; the Elizabeth line service from Maidenhead is at even 15 minute intervals and back to London is 19/11. But the GWR service has a path on the Mains to/from Paddington which probably can’t be adjusted.

From Reading is much more even although if the GWR service from Didcot Parkway running a little late can delay the Elizabeth line Maidenhead starter out of the turnback as there’s only 4 minutes between them.

 

[crablab]

No OP tickets valid on GWR services back in evening peak. "Extra" time avoids the change at Paddington, with poorer tube stock and links.

Right, so going in the other direction to the one I mentioned.

I'm no fan of the O9 restriction code (which seemingly exists for revenue purposes and I believe is counterproductive) but you seem to be aggrieved about capacity being allocated for metro services which are busy during the evening peak rather than running all the way to Reading, when commuter demand drops off rapidly after Slough?

TfL is looking at strengthening the frequencies, but it's obviously going to focus on where the demand is:

TfL has previously worked on two preliminary ideas for the peak hours service:

Package West

18 trains per hour (tph) to Old Oak Common from Paddington (would be 12tph today)
10tph to West Drayton from Old Oak Common (currently 6tph)
26tph in the central operating section (currently 20-24 tph)

Package East

18tph to Old Oak Common from Paddington (would be 12tph today)
28tph in the central operating section (currently 20-24 tph)
Increasing services to Abbey Wood to 14tph (currently 12tph)

First of ten new Elizabeth line trains enters passenger service

The first of ten additional Elizabeth line trains ordered to boost the railway’s capacity has started carrying passengers in London.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

Given the number of people interchanging at Paddington, you are in the minority.

Paddington fasts are irrelevant to travel within the Thames Valley

Except they're very much not. Think about where all the people travelling on them, from the Thames Valley, would need to go instead

 

[Kilopylae]

GWR run semi-fasts stopping at the outer Thames Valley stations (Maidenhead, Twyford, Slough) so the EL is mostly providing capacity between them and Reading, not going into London.

It's also useful from Hayes, West Drayton, etc out to Reading for trains to Bristol/Devon/Oxford/etc avoiding London Paddington.

 

[Horizon22]

It's also useful from Hayes, West Drayton, etc out to Reading for trains to Bristol/Devon/Oxford/etc avoiding London Paddington.

I presume you are talking about the Elizabeth line as the GWR service no longer stops at those stations, now running fast from Paddington <> Slough since 2023 or 2024.

 

[WAO]

Right, so going in the other direction to the one I mentioned.

I'm no fan of the O9 restriction code (which seemingly exists for revenue purposes and I believe is counterproductive) but you seem to be aggrieved about capacity being allocated for metro services which are busy during the evening peak rather than running all the way to Reading, when commuter demand drops off rapidly after Slough?

TfL is looking at strengthening the frequencies, but it's obviously going to focus on where the demand is:

First of ten new Elizabeth line trains enters passenger service

The first of ten additional Elizabeth line trains ordered to boost the railway’s capacity has started carrying passengers in London.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

Given the number of people interchanging at Paddington, you are in the minority.


Except they're very much not. Think about where all the people travelling on them, from the Thames Valley, would need to go instead

1. Most journeys are out and back.
2. Terminating services on TfL etc all thin out towards the end. Try a down 8 car Waterloo train after Winnersh or Earley. This is also wastefully true of the EL Paddington terminators which could be cut back further, although future extension to Old Oak Common will help.
3. Of course TV travellers are in a minority at Paddington as it is the GWML terminus for Wales and the West.

However, even 2 OP/hour Reading EL services are an enormous improvement on the pre-electrifcation Turbo's - 9 car versus 3 car etc etc.
There's a large flat building boom on the back of faux EL publicity, often sold off plan abroad. We even get Freedom Pass tourists from the smoke!

Readingensian,

WAO

 

[Kilopylae]

I presume you are talking about the Elizabeth line as the GWR service no longer stops at those stations, now running fast from Paddington <> Slough since 2023 or 2024.

Yes, the Elizabeth line, sorry - Elizabeth line to Reading for GWR services beyond. I was bringing it up as it's a further use case for the westbound Elizabeth line west of the M25.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, the Elizabeth line, sorry - Elizabeth line to Reading for GWR services beyond. I was bringing it up as it's a further use case for the westbound Elizabeth line west of the M25.

Oh of course, seeing as it’s the only connection unless you want to buy two (more expensive) journeys/tickets and travel via Paddington. It’s just naturally loadings are normally lower past West Drayton.

 

[SWML9102]

It's also useful from Hayes, West Drayton, etc out to Reading for trains to Bristol/Devon/Oxford/etc avoiding London Paddington.

And for those attempting to access Heathrow from west of Reading.