Very-trivial trivia item: Stations on a Monopoly board

[Greenback]

Greenback, I'd beg to differ with you regarding "LNER-mentioning-by-name-or-not". I own a "nostalgia" modern facsimile of Monopoly in one of its earliest British forms: on the board, the letters "L.N.E.R." appear under the name of each station. If I recall rightly, post-nationalisation the letters in the spots concerned, were altered to "B.R.". I have also a fairly recently-produced set of the classic London Monopoly; on the board of this one, the names of the four stations are just given, with no indication of ownership.

I don't doubt you. the oldest set I've had access to was one my uncle used as a boy in the late 1950's. There was no mention of LNER on that one, as you would expect since the railways had been nationalised by then! It could well be the case that earlier editions, pre nationalisation, were so inscribed.

 

[Calthrop]

You mean Canterbury North Lane? I guess so.

Didn't know that was the name -- was just going from gen in the "Times" book Mapping the Railways, giving rail maps of the Canterbury area as at 1850 and 1920.

 

[backontrack]

Didn't know that was the name -- was just going from gen in the "Times" book Mapping the Railways, giving rail maps of the Canterbury area as at 1850 and 1920.

Ah. I have that book.

Canterbury's 'North Lane' station was situated not very far away from the station that followed it, Canterbury West.

 

[OwlMan]

The "Coventry" cedition had Coventry Station, Coventry Ring Road, Coventry Canal & Coventry Airport

 

[backontrack]

The "Coventry" cedition had Coventry Station, Coventry Ring Road, Coventry Canal & Coventry Airport

Today that would have Coventry Arena, methinks.

 

[Mag_seven]

In traditional British editions of the game Monopoly, the boards four London stations are all termini formerly of the LNER: Fenchurch Street, Kings Cross, Liverpool Street, and Marylebone (in editions from the pre-nationalisation era, these stations are specifically labelled on the board, LNER).

With the game having been invented and come on the market in the 1930s -- and with its being set in its British form in London, and involving four railway-terminus properties one feels that it would have seemed apposite and pleasing, for the game to feature one important terminus in the capital, from each of the Groupings Big Four railway companies. Instead, only the LNER was thus honoured; it has occurred to me to wonder why this was, and has remained, so. My best guess would involve matters of copyright, and / or fees charged to the makers by the railway companies hence, an arrangement being made with just one company, the LNER: perhaps because they offered the financially cheapest deal ! If anyone knows more about this admittedly not earth-shaking matter, Id be interested to hear.

Thread reopned at the request of @70014IronDuke

 

[70014IronDuke]

My understanding is that the LNER actually owned Fenchurch Street station and the lines leading immediately out of it: the LMS (London, Tilbury & Southend section -- acquired IIRC by the Midland Railway not all that long before the Grouping) used Fenchurch Street, by a running-powers arrangement with the LNER.

By coincidence, earlier today I got an email from a foreign friend who said she was at Marylebone station - and I responded that it was one of the stations on the GB Monopoly board. She must use it quite often, and wrote back that this explains why the Ladies' is decorated with a Monopoly theme. (ha! Which I didn't know, kind of obviously).

As yet more trivia, I then explained that it was superficially surprising that the two of the four stations on the GB board were rather small stations in London, and why.

Except that I assumed that Fenchurch Street was an LMS station, and rather small and relatively obscure to most of the UK as it serves just a sliver of land north of the Thames. I reasoned that it must have been chosen because, the LNER having only three stations in the capital, Fenchurch Street was smack in the City and very close to the Bank of England, so kind of symbolic of capitalism.

Then I revisited this thread and found @Calthrop's assertion here.

My assumption for 50 years has been that Fenchurch Street was LMS - not only did it use LMS (or Standar) locomotives - these engines - at least the Stanier 3-cylinder jobs - were overhauled at Derby at, or very near to the end of their working lives up to c 1961.

Of course, Calthrop may still be correct, but I'm intrigued - which of the big four actually owned Fenchurch Street? Does anyone know for sure?

 

[hexagon789]

By coincidence, earlier today I got an email from a foreign friend who said she was at Marylebone station - and I responded that it was one of the stations on the GB Monopoly board. She must use it quite often, and wrote back that this explains why the Ladies' is decorated with a Monopoly theme. (ha! Which I didn't know, kind of obviously).

As yet more trivia, I then explained that it was superficially surprising that the two of the four stations on the GB board were rather small stations in London, and why.

Except that I assumed that Fenchurch Street was an LMS station, and rather small and relatively obscure to most of the UK as it serves just a sliver of land north of the Thames. I reasoned that it must have been chosen because, the LNER having only three stations in the capital, Fenchurch Street was smack in the City and very close to the Bank of England, so kind of symbolic of capitalism.

Then I revisited this thread and found @Calthrop's assertion here.

My assumption for 50 years has been that Fenchurch Street was LMS - not only did it use LMS (or Standar) locomotives - these engines - at least the Stanier 3-cylinder jobs - were overhauled at Derby at, or very near to the end of their working lives up to c 1961.

Of course, Calthrop may still be correct, but I'm intrigued - which of the big four actually owned Fenchurch Street? Does anyone know for sure?

The LNER owned Fenchurch Street, but the LMS was a joint user with formal running powers.

 

[70014IronDuke]

The LNER owned Fenchurch Street, but the LMS was a joint user with formal running powers.

Alright, thanks! But how did this come about, do you know? Did the Midland and GN or GE buy our the LTSR jointly, the Midland taking responsibility for the rolling stock, and the GN or GE the infrastructure?

Seems an unusual situation. I mean, did the GN, GE or LNER need those tracks particularly?

 

[The Pelican]

It spent part of it's early life as a North London Line terminus, as well as it's "native" London and Blackwall/LTSR services, before Broad Street opened. Broad Street famously had a few trains off the GNR/ECML (or it'a branches) north of Finsbury Park, via a chord to Canonbury on the North London Line. But it looks like this chord opened in 1874, well after Broad Street.

I think the LNER ownership will be something to do with it's use as an alternate terminus for GER trains, besides Bishopsgate (and then besides Liverpool Street).

 

[hexagon789]

Alright, thanks! But how did this come about, do you know? Did the Midland and GN or GE buy our the LTSR jointly, the Midland taking responsibility for the rolling stock, and the GN or GE the infrastructure?

The London and Backwell was leased by the Great Eastern which became part of the LNER at Grouping, while the LT&S became LMS.

I believe the LNER by this point effectively used Fenchurch Street as a capacity-booster to Liverpool Street with services running in over the connection from Stratford.

 

[Taunton]

Contrary to some belief, the Great Eastern did not own Fenchurch Street up to 1923. They were tenants themselves of the original London & Blackwall Railway, who had leased the operations side to them, but remained as owners. The L&B separately leased the joint running to the LT&S, who paid the L&B directly for the privilege. The various parties seemed to get on sufficiently well with all this, although the LT&S was confined to one platform, which of course they made very intense use of in peak periods, the GE was notably the principal station user. The L&B also directly had running arrangements with the LNWR, the Midland, and the GN, for their goods depots immediately outside the station. This resulted in the L&B company having substantial income and almost no operating costs. The 1923 Grouping legislation moved all this to the LNER, with the LMS having running powers.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have heard it claimed that the London railway terminii used in the first UK edition of 'Monopoly' were the four that LNER operated in the capital, was because the manufacturer (= John Waddington Ltd., under licence from Parker Bros) was, in the 1930s, a Leeds-based firm (and Leeds was then very much LNER territory also).

 

[Dr Hoo]

Have heard it claimed that the London railway terminii used in the first UK edition of 'Monopoly' were the four that LNER operated in the capital, was because the manufacturer (= John Waddington Ltd., under licence from Parker Bros) was, in the 1930s, a Leeds-based firm (and Leeds was then very much LNER territory also).

Leeds was surely ‘shared’ territory with former L&NWR and Midland lines there, which became part of the LMS.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Leeds was surely ‘shared’ territory with former L&NWR and Midland lines there, which became part of the LMS.

Yes, but surely if you travelled from Leeds to London Kings Cross in 1935, it'd have been with LNER, wouldn't it?

 

[norbitonflyer]

The London and Backwell was leased by the Great Eastern which became part of the LNER at Grouping, while the LT&S became LMS.

I believe the LNER by this point effectively used Fenchurch Street as a capacity-booster to Liverpool Street with services running in over the connection from Stratford.

Althoughn the LT&S was the main user of Fenchurch Street, it was owned by the London & Blackwall, and leased to the Great Eastern.
The LTS was a much later scheme, that was unable to build its own terminus as Londion was too crowded by then.
As late as the 1940s LNER electrification scheme , there was a plan to run trains from Stratford into Fenchurch Street - the redundant bay platfoprm 4 at Stratford, later used for the DLR but now outgrown, was put in for that service.
The situation of a tiny, but early, railway buidling a terminus and later giving running powers to much larger enterprises was reflected south of the river, where the original Londn & Greenwich Railway gave running powers into its London Bridge terminus to the London & Croydon (which later became the London, Brighton and South Coast). The LBSCR in tyurn gave the South Eastern running powers between Redhill and London (the cutoff between Lewisham and Tonbridfe came much later)

 

[hexagon789]

Have heard it claimed that the London railway terminii used in the first UK edition of 'Monopoly' were the four that LNER operated in the capital, was because the manufacturer (= John Waddington Ltd., under licence from Parker Bros) was, in the 1930s, a Leeds-based firm (and Leeds was then very much LNER territory also).

The LMS also ran to Leeds though; Leeds City Station opened in 1938 was designed by the LMS and operated as a joint station with the LNER having formed out of a merger of Wellington and New stations.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yes, but surely if you travelled from Leeds to London Kings Cross in 1935, it'd have been with LNER, wouldn't it?

Depends - the competing Midland/LMS route still existed. LNER may have been faster, but some preferred the LMS (maybe cheaper, or better facilities, or simply ran at more convenient times - remember that even on the busiest main lines there were very many fewer long distance services than there are now)

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, but surely if you travelled from Leeds to London Kings Cross in 1935, it'd have been with LNER, wouldn't it?

Not necessarily.

LMS ran regularly enough for the period from St Pancras for a start.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2026 ==

Althoughn the LT&S was the main user of Fenchurch Street, it was owned by the London & Blackwall, and leased to the Great Eastern.
The LTS was a much later scheme, that was unable to build its own terminus as Londion was too crowded by then.
As late as the 1940s LNER electrification scheme , there was a plan to run trains from Stratford into Fenchurch Street - the redundant bay platfoprm 4 at Stratford, later used for the DLR but now outgrown, was put in for that service.
The situation of a tiny, but early, railway buidling a terminus and later giving running powers to much larger enterprises was reflected south of the river, where the original Londn & Greenwich Railway gave running powers into its London Bridge terminus to the London & Croydon (which later became the London, Brighton and South Coast). The LBSCR in tyurn gave the South Eastern running powers between Redhill and London (the cutoff between Lewisham and Tonbridfe came much later)

That is quite true, I think I was trying to simply the explanation a bit.

In all, a somewhat unusual but interesting arrangement.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Greenback, I'd beg to differ with you regarding "LNER-mentioning-by-name-or-not". I own a "nostalgia" modern facsimile of Monopoly in one of its earliest British forms: on the board, the letters "L.N.E.R." appear under the name of each station. If I recall rightly, post-nationalisation the letters in the spots concerned, were altered to "B.R.". I have also a fairly recently-produced set of the classic London Monopoly; on the board of this one, the names of the four stations are just given, with no indication of ownership.

As I child in the late 60s/early 70s, the family of one of my friends actually had a pre-war Monopoly set which I occasionally played on, and I am quite sure that L.N.E.R. appeared on the station squares. I was sufficiently aware of railway history to know of the LNER even at that age, although the complexities of Fenchurch Street would have to wait a bit longer!

The only other thing I can recall about it was that the houses and hotels were made of wood.

 

[MotCO]

I have a 1936 edition of Monopoly, and enclose a photo showing the LNER subtext on each of the station squares. I also share a copy of the metal pieces and wooden hotel and house.

 

[d70g]

I have a 1936 edition of Monopoly, and enclose a photo showing the LNER subtext on each of the station squares. I also share a copy of the metal pieces and wooden hotel and house.View attachment 212320View attachment 212321

That's really cool. Thanks for posting.

 

[Harvester]

There is a monopoly movie currently in development for cinema release, which will use live characters, but it’s difficult to see how this will pan out. As a Hollywood production, US building and station names will no doubt be used.

 

[oldman]

As I child we had a pre-war Chinese version of Monopoly called Shanghai Millionaire, where for example the green properties are Kiukiang, Kiangse and Szechuan Roads - I struggle when British Monopoly comes up in quizzes. Boringly the stations are called North, East, South and West.

 

[mike57]

I have a 1936 edition of Monopoly, and enclose a photo showing the LNER subtext on each of the station squares.

I also have this edition, from 1936, with the 'Patent applied for' text. It was passed down from my Grandparents, who were in business in South London during the time that Monopoly appeared. Family oral history is that it was a sample provided by the reps who would call to tout their latest offerings. Their main business was furniture and removals, but my Grandmother expanded the business to include toys and 'baby goods' (prams, push chairs, cots etc), hence the sample. By the 1960s that had become their main business.

The story I was told from my Grandparents is that the LNER were always on the look out for publicity and that there was a (probably non financial) unofficial 'deal' between LNER senior execs and John Waddingtons, as a youngster I apparently asked the question 'What is the LNER', as by that time everything was BR and had been for a good many years, and the explanations were given, probably just conjecture, but there you go.

 

[MotCO]

I also have this edition, from 1936, with the 'Patent applied for' text. It was passed down from my Grandparents, who were in business in South London during the time that Monopoly appeared. Family oral history is that it was a sample provided by the reps who would call to tout their latest offerings. Their main business was furniture and removals, but my Grandmother expanded the business to include toys and 'baby goods' (prams, push chairs, cots etc), hence the sample. By the 1960s that had become their main business.

The story I was told from my Grandparents is that the LNER were always on the look out for publicity and that there was a (probably non financial) unofficial 'deal' between LNER senior execs and John Waddingtons, as a youngster I apparently asked the question 'What is the LNER', as by that time everything was BR and had been for a good many years, and the explanations were given, probably just conjecture, but there you go.

That's interesting. My grandfather also lived in South London (around Battersea) and worked for a carpentry company (Carmichael's springs to mind). They also had another boardgame from Waddingtons - Totopoly - which I believe dates from 1938 and was based on horse-racing, and I have no recollection of my grandparents liking a flutter, so were these games gifts from Waddingtons to the carpentry company to tout their games as you say?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Although getting away from the thread title, Waddingtons more recently had a railway connection.

One evening a 'Cobbler' set's TSOs had been fitted with vinyl table coverings set out with board games. Some young women from Waddington's, dressed as jokers, worked through the train selling - or possibly giving away - Waddington packs of playing cards.

 

[mike57]

Totopoly - which I believe dates from 1938 and was based on horse-racing,

Interesting, I remember my Mother talking about Totopoly, but it didn't even make it into my childhood.

The carpentry business is interesting as well, My Grandmothers father (my G Grand father) was a cabinet maker, and started 'Jackmans' in Balham in 1914. He started doing repairs and making new stuff, but then after WW1 my Grandparent married, they met during WW1, and My grandfather expanded the business, buying and selling secondhand stuff and doing removals. They were based on Balham Hill, where the flats are, they were bombed out in WW2, but Monopoly board and accessories survived.

 

[MotCO]

Interesting, I remember my Mother talking about Totopoly, but it didn't even make it into my childhood.

The carpentry business is interesting as well, My Grandmothers father (my G Grand father) was a cabinet maker, and started 'Jackmans' in Balham in 1914. He started doing repairs and making new stuff, but then after WW1 my Grandparent married, they met during WW1, and My grandfather expanded the business, buying and selling secondhand stuff and doing removals. They were based on Balham Hill, where the flats are, they were bombed out in WW2, but Monopoly board and accessories survived.

Yes, my grandfather also made furniture - i remember wardrobes he made for his home.

Bizarrely, the site of James Carmichaels was in Trinity Road, Wandsworth, about 1 1/2 miles from Balham!

 

[mike57]

Bizarrely, the site of James Carmichaels was in Trinity Road, Wandsworth, about 1 1/2 miles from Balham!

I spent the first 4 years of my life in Trinity Road, but can't really remember a lot, it was well over 60 years ago, We then moved to just off Nightingale Lane near Clapham South. I moved away from London in 1980