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Can people just pay by card instead of using cash?

DelW

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That is a problem and does need fixing. But the answer is not to go back to a situation where you didn’t know what you might need to pay or how it could be paid.
It was easy when all machines took cash. I kept a pot of small change in the car (pounds, 50s, 20s, 10s and 5s) and topped it up after use. There'll still be some in my car now, available in case of need, though it's less useful these days.
 
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m0ffy

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My Mum's local chippie (in Oxford) actually has a sign saying they prefer payment by cash! Which is fine by me......
A local sandwich shop has several signs extolling the virtues of cash. Last time I was in there, the owner was telling another customer how much cash was stolen by a former employee. The irony wasn’t lost on me.
 

Bald Rick

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It was easy when all machines took cash. I kept a pot of small change in the car (pounds, 50s, 20s, 10s and 5s) and topped it up after use. There'll still be some in my car now, available in case of need, though it's less useful these days.

There’s still some in my car now. It’s been there, untouched, for 6 or 7 years.
 

AlterEgo

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I'm a parking app refusenik, so I don't know how they work. But I assume that each separate app requires you to input your bank card details?
Not always, generally you can just pay with Apple Pay or Google Pay.
 

DelW

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Not always, generally you can just pay with Apple Pay or Google Pay.
Ah, neither of which I've ever used. I do have a PayPal account, is that an option if I ever have to use one of these parking apps?
 

Lucan

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I've lost my wallet a few times in the past, which resulted in me losing around £30 of cash, but I had no losses via card at all.
I have never lost a card or cash, but if I lost either in the street the most cash I could lose is around £50. However, a neer-do-well could quickly use my lost or stolen card to spend £100 contactlessly (or whatever the current limit is) and £100 over and over again until I noticed that the card was gone. In fact I carry several contactless cards, so multiply that by three or four. I would probably not notice the loss until my next monthly bill because I don't buy things out-and-about daily, and I use different cards for different things like a different one for on-line purchases. Banks will only refund what the crook spends after you notify them, so I could lose £1000s. It doesn't stop me carrying cards, and I am careful, but it is a concern.

As for car parks, they are mostly operated by crooks, even those under contract from the council. So the more sterile my contact with them, the better, and coins don't allow them to know anything about my financial arrangements. I don't know how the Ringo thing works that people here are recommending, and their website does not explain it either, so do you pre-load them with credit, or give them your bank details for direct debiting, they send you a monthly bill, or what? However it is yet another vector for scammers, as their website says :
Beware of an increase in SMS scams claiming you have unpaid parking fees. Do not click any links in messages.
https://ringgo.co.uk/
 
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simonw

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I have never lost a card or cash, but if I lost either in the street the most cash I could lose is around £50. However, a neer-do-well could quickly use my lost or stolen card to spend £100 contactlessly (or whatever the current limit is) and £100 over and over again until I noticed that the card was gone. In fact I carry several contactless cards, so multiply that by three or four. I would probably not notice the loss until my next monthly bill because I don't buy things out-and-about daily, and I use different cards for different things like a different one for on-line purchases. Banks will only refund what the crook spends after you notify them, so I could lose £1000s. It doesn't stop me carrying cards, and I am careful, but it is a concern.

As for car parks, they are mostly operated by crooks, even those under contract from the council. So the more sterile my contact with them, the better, and coins don't allow them to know anything about my financial arrangements. I don't know how the Ringo thing works that people here are recommending, and their website does not explain it either, so do you pre-load them with credit, or give them your bank details for direct debiting, they send you a monthly bill, or what? However it is yet another vector for scammers, as their website says :
As far as liability for losses are concerned, this is not so.

in any event most cards will allow you to be sent a notification when your card has been used.

Ringo will debit your credit or debit card at the time of parking, as with most apps you can get it to remember your info or not as you choose. Other apps are similar.
 

Starmill

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The Financial Conduct Authority rules provide consumers wide-ranging free protection against card fraud. They even protect partially against fraud which the user missed an opportunity to prevent, for example losing their card or handing over a one time password under pressure from a scammed. The protection is very significant and you don't get anything similar with cash.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

However, a neer-do-well could quickly use my lost or stolen card to spend £100 contactlessly (or whatever the current limit is) and £100 over and over again until I noticed that the card was gone.
They wouldn't be able to repeat it until you realised - not without your pin. They'd only get a few attempts.
Banks will only refund what the crook spends after you notify them, so I could lose £1000s.
This isn't quite how this works, but as above it'd be very difficult indeed to spend that much in contactless taps.
I would probably not notice the loss until my next monthly bill because I don't buy things out-and-about daily, and I use different cards for different things like a different one for on-line purchases.
Most people use live smartphone notifications for banking transactions nowadays, which alerts them in almost real time to any potential fraud. Combined with Google or Apple pay and leaving your physical cards safely in the bottom of your backpack with the contactless function disabled, I'd argue this is much safer than ever before. If you are reliant on contactless cards and don't use a smartphone it is actually possible you may be better off with cash only.
 
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johntea

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NatWest allow me to set a contactless limit as little as £5 (or I can even just 'freeze' them altogether), and yes they do send a notification to my phone literally the second a transaction is made (in that I can be at the cash machine making a withdrawal and the notification will pop up before the cash has even been dispensed!)

In many ways I don't even need to carry a card at all as I have them set up on Apple Pay which is perhaps more secure as if my phone gets nicked they won't be able to go on a spending spree as the phone will be locked (as in Face ID and they'll get maybe 10 goes at the passcode before the phone erases itself mission impossible style :D) but if the phone did get nicked or damaged or the battery ran out I would be a bit stuck
 

AM9

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but if the phone did get nicked or damaged or the battery ran out I would be a bit stuck
There's the rub, even if a thief cannot extract much from accounts mapped on your phone, the hardware of a £1000 phone itself is attractive to a 'recycler' and you would be without any means of purchasing anything as you wouldn't even be able to use two part id. Using contactless and carrying a phone is as secure and less likely to leave tou stranded
 

AlterEgo

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This isn't about me, I have a smartphone and I always carry more than one active card, - all with contactless facility. It's the persistence of car parks forcing yet another app to be installed each one with potential to malfunction. The news here that there is a move to create a single app on which many operators will eventually accept payment through may help remove some of the clutter on phones is interesting, but so far many local authorities (including St Alban's here) haven't. But they do have contactless which is acceptable to far more people than a smartphone only option.
Sorry my comment wasn't really directed at you - but as far as apps go, I've no issue with them other than I agree that there are just so many of them. The single app development is great news, but the proof will as always be in the pudding.
 

londonbridge

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I travel internationally quite a bit and rarely take cash with me and it's never a problem
Was in Austria and ate in a pizza restaurant, offered my card to pay the bill and it was “no, no card”. I had some cash on me but not enough, so I said I’d have to go get some more, I obviously looked trustworthy as they allowed me to do so, found a cashpoint and came back and paid some ten minutes later.
 

ainsworth74

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Was in Austria and ate in a pizza restaurant, offered my card to pay the bill and it was “no, no card”. I had some cash on me but not enough, so I said I’d have to go get some more, I obviously looked trustworthy as they allowed me to do so, found a cashpoint and came back and paid some ten minutes later.
Yes whenever in Germany and Austria always worth checking they take card! Anywhere else though it's the default to pay be card. Very backwards in that regard really.
 

jon81uk

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Many small businesses hate people who pay by card. My erstwhile employers did accept cards but because only three or four customers a month used the facility (business to business company), we were charged 3% commission and a £50 monthly standing charge so made a loss on those sales.
Many small businesses prefer card as the cost of handling cash is higher. A lot of banks charge a cash deposit fee for business banking, plus there is the staff time to visit the bank to deposit it as well as the risk of theft by staff and customers and the higher insurance cost. Whereas get a simple mobile card terminal and money goes straight into your account with a low fee and no faff, it’s possible to take contactless payment with an app and tapping directly to a phone without a Bluetooth connected terminal now too.
 

najaB

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I have never lost a card or cash, but if I lost either in the street the most cash I could lose is around £50. However, a neer-do-well could quickly use my lost or stolen card to spend £100 contactlessly (or whatever the current limit is) and £100 over and over again until I noticed that the card was gone.
Most banks allow you to set a lower limit if you want, and you can only do a certain number of contactless transactions in a row before PIN authentication is required. I believe the number is six universally, but that might also be configurable.

Not to mention, most card providers allow you turn contactless on and off via their app/website, or you could set up contactless payments in Apple/Google/Samsung Pay which means that they would have to have your phone rather than your debit card.
 

Haywain

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you could set up contactless payments in Apple/Google/Samsung Pay which means that they would have to have your phone rather than your debit card.
They would also need the form of authentication used by the phone.
 

londonbridge

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I go into a bank and take it out of my account. Granted I am lucky in that my nearest town still has a full complement of branches.
That’s another thing, as my card usage has increased, my atm usage has certainly decreased, but on occasions when I do need to withdraw some cash I tend to do so during bank opening hours and use a machine inside a bank branch, since it’s less likely to have been tampered with. I seem to hear and read about more and more exterior and stand alone cashpoints being targeted with Lebanese loops, cameras to observe you entering your pin, and general distraction thefts of cards.
 

Bald Rick

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Most banks allow you to set a lower limit if you want, and you can only do a certain number of contactless transactions in a row before PIN authentication is required. I believe the number is six universally, but that might also be configurable.

Other than first use for each card, I have only once been asked to PIN my contactless cards (in this country). And I was in at the start. Reckon I used it 5 times a day on average before switching to phone.


I go into a bank and take it out of my account. Granted I am lucky in that my nearest town still has a full complement of branches.

Two questions if I may, I’m genuinely interested.

1) how do you do that without a card? Even in 1981* when I went with my dad to the bank to get cash out with a cheque, he had to show his cheque card. And there’s no cheque cards now that can’t be used for card payments (unless someone knows otherwise!)

2) what do you do if you need to spend some money, and don’t have enough cash, when the bank isn‘t open?


* because in 1982 he got a card for the ’Autobank’ and didn’t write cheques for cash anymore
 
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lookapigeon

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There's the rub, even if a thief cannot extract much from accounts mapped on your phone, the hardware of a £1000 phone itself is attractive to a 'recycler' and you would be without any means of purchasing anything as you wouldn't even be able to use two part id. Using contactless and carrying a phone is as secure and less likely to leave tou stranded
I feel this obsession of having everything on the phone is crazy, especially when people head out with no cards or cash. Whilst it's rare to have problems in the main, I have seen many times they can and do happen - the phone glitches out, battery dies etc.

I've never had a card pack up on me despite heavy usage, it's a robust item designed for a specific purpose and certainly no inconvenience to me to type in a PIN for larger value purchases.

I also don't have to share my purchase, financial data or cut of any charges (however small) with a third party, whether it's Apple or Google.
 

Hadders

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Some interesting discussion here...

Parking apps - I was sort of against them but remember during covid, first weekend the restrictiosn were lifted but public transport was still all but banned, driving into central London and parking on the roadside. Not expensive on a Saturday of you know where to park but I needed to pay by phone. What a faff trying to pay by phone - you had to send a text with the location code, wait for a reply, then text how long you wanted, then your reg number... in the end I gave up and downloaded the app and haven't looked back since. Have I got more parking apps than I'd like - yes, although it's getting better as increasingly you can choose which app to pay with.

I'm more concerned about tickets for rugby clubs where I increasingly have to download the away club app to get my tickets. I've now got 14 rugby club apps on my phone...

Cash - I normally carry £10 or £20 in emergency but like @Bald Rick I generally make 2 or 3 visits to a cash point each year. I pay for everything with a credit card, the exception is my local chippie for my occasional visits that is cash only. Credit card bill gets paid by direct debit each month.

I never use a physical card - it's phone wallet payments for me - so simple. I can actually see a time coming when banks will start to charge customers who want a physical card.

I don't subscribe to old people not being able to use technology. My mum is in her mid 80s - bought up when everything was cash. Was dead against her wages being paid into a bank account but adapted to the change. Trust me - she's more than happy to use her phone to make payments... On the other hand my best friend, clever guy, Masters Degree from Oxford but a complete technophobe. Won't even use contactless or online banking.

There is much less risk using cards than cash. A few years ago I had my wallet stolen on the Paris Metro. Lost about £50 in cash (Sterling and Euros) that I couldn't recover, I stopped the cards immediately but in the meantime some fraudlent transactions had taken place but these were all refunded by my bank. Thankfully my phone wasn't stolen so I could continue to use Apple Pay and I could access my TGV tickets (the physical tickets were in my wallet...)

Moral of the story - don't put al your eggs in one basket. These days I tend to use my phoen for everything but I also carry a card and have another card at home. This means that if my phone is stolen I've still got a card with me. If my phone and card are stolen I've still got a useable card at home.
 

AM9

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I feel this obsession of having everything on the phone is crazy, especially when people head out with no cards or cash. Whilst it's rare to have problems in the main, I have seen many times they can and do happen - the phone glitches out, battery dies etc.

I've never had a card pack up on me despite heavy usage, it's a robust item designed for a specific purpose and certainly no inconvenience to me to type in a PIN for larger value purchases.
Then there are those that travel relying on the phone to work as they should (if sufficient charge is maintained) come to RUK all hurt because the TM/RPO didn't believe that their dead phone had a valid ticket hiding behind its black screen. I wouldn't expect much sympathy if my card/ticket was missing having fallen through a hole in my pocket, - a situation far less likely than a random phone 'failure'.
It's the passenger's responsibility to show a valid ticket when asked and so far, their choice of ticket medium.
 

GarethC

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Since COVID (and most banks closing in the town) I have found that my independent greengrocer, butcher, baker, hardware store, and bookshop all prefer card/phone payment over cash.

They have all cited the hassle of dealing with cash, costs to bank the cash and cost to 'buy' change as issues, along with them not being able to get rid of it through their suppliers (who want paying by BACS or card). Many have the card machine linked to the till system so it saves on their accounting costs and time.

I even had a tradesperson do some work, offered them cash and they asked if I could do card as it was easier. Card machine synchronised with his accounting system so meant he didn't have to spend time on paperwork (or pay an accountant/bookkeeper to do it).

I'm intrigued how the poster who has no cards withdraws cash from the bank. The only way I can withdraw cash without a card is at the Building Society with a passbook (though normally I have it BACS'd to an account with a card).
 

najaB

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Other than first use for each card, I have only once been asked to PIN my contactless cards (in this country). And I was in at the start. Reckon I used it 5 times a day on average before switching to phone
I still get the PIN required situation about once a fortnight or so.
 

najaB

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You must be dodgy :lol:
I think it's just because I do lots of small transactions - I don't do a weekly shop, for example and instead stop at the supermarket/shop on the way home, or do a takeaway two or three times a month.
 

Hadders

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I still get the PIN required situation about once a fortnight or so.
If you use a physical card, then there's an inbuilt security feature with contactless that requires you to enter you PIN every so often (it's often after a set number or value of consecutive contactless transactions).

If you regularly use a cash machine or make a transaction above £100 then you're entering your PIN frequently so maybe won't make a sufficient number of consecutive contactless transactions to trigger a PIN check.

As the contactless limit has increased, and fewer cash machine transactions take place, more people are being asked to enter their PIN when they make a contactless transaction. This is just the system working as it's supposed to.

If you use Google or Apple Wallet you authenticate the transaction using biometrics on your phone (usually finger print of face recognition) so you'll never be asked to enter a PIN. AFAIK the transaction limit for Google/Apple Wallet is £10,000. I've personally made an Apple Pay transaction for more than £5k.
 

Bald Rick

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I think it's just because I do lots of small transactions - I don't do a weekly shop, for example and instead stop at the supermarket/shop on the way home, or do a takeaway two or three times a month.

If you use a physical card, then there's an inbuilt security feature with contactless that requires you to enter you PIN every so often (it's often after a set number or value of consecutive contactless transactions).

If you regularly use a cash machine or make a transaction above £100 then you're entering your PIN frequently so maybe won't make a sufficient number of consecutive contactless transactions to trigger a PIN check.

As the contactless limit has increased, and fewer cash machine transactions take place, more people are being asked to enter their PIN when they make a contactless transaction. This is just the system working as it's supposed to.

If you use Google or Apple Wallet you authenticate the transaction using biometrics on your phone (usually finger print of face recognition) so you'll never be asked to enter a PIN. AFAIK the transaction limit for Google/Apple Wallet is £10,000. I've personally made an Apple Pay transaction for more than £5k.

I do lots of small transactions, typically 3-4 a day, usually under £10. Transactions over the contactless limit - maybe twice a month. Before I switched to using the phone, I used the same card for all of them, and rarely used a cashpoint (in fact never with the card I spend on). As I said, only once have I been asked to PIN a contactless payment once .
 

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