Depending on the nature of their business, that is OK. However, my point is that it should not be what can be regarded as essential to a 'normal' lifestyle. A festival, a cinema and a leisure park I don't regard as 'essential' to such a lifestyle, but domestic transport definitely does, and car parks that enable itsi use where there is no alternative do as well.
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Can people just pay by card instead of using cash?
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ChrisC
Established Member
I can see that car parks could be a problem. There are also many restaurants and hotels which are card only these days although there is always the choice not to use them. Yesterday afternoon I was at the theatre and even buying an ice cream during the interval was card only. I’ve never had an issue with using a card but I must admit that pre Covid I very rarely paid by card for amounts under £20. I would never have used my card just to pay for a coffee, but I do these days. I still always carry cash and do tend to use it when paying for single items such as an 89p bottle of water. I still usually use cash when shopping at market stalls and at some local independent shops.
Whilst I now pay by card most of the time I do not pay using QR codes and try to avoid using apps to pay as much as possible. I have never used a parking app and will avoid car parks which require this. Last year I was in a somewhat upmarket Italian restaurant in Manchester where you had to order using a QR code. They were insisting that I did this until I got up to walk out and then they soon sent someone over to take my order.
nlogax
Established Member
When I moved to this area a couple of years back it was like stepping back in time and certain elements have not changed. The local taxi company is still cash only, the best local Chinese place lets you order online but you pay on pickup with cash only.. and of course there's the joy of Glasgow City cabbies when their card payment machines 'don't work'.
Cash is inconvenient and I don't carry it other than an emergency token amount in what is a very slim wallet. Last time I needed was buying coffee at East Croydon station when the card machines were definitely not working. The weird curiosity of wondering if they'd accept my Scottish fiver. At least I had it.. not much coffee was being served that morning and it highlighted to me how few people carry any sort of backup cash.
Cash is inconvenient and I don't carry it other than an emergency token amount in what is a very slim wallet. Last time I needed was buying coffee at East Croydon station when the card machines were definitely not working. The weird curiosity of wondering if they'd accept my Scottish fiver. At least I had it.. not much coffee was being served that morning and it highlighted to me how few people carry any sort of backup cash.
gg1
Established Member
Yes, becoming more common now unfortunately.
It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact the different companies all have the own apps so you have to download it there and then if it's not already on the phone.
If not banned entirely, there should IMO definitely be a law that all app only parking should be payable via a single app covering all parking companies.
I had quick look on RingGo's website and they say that you can pay over the phone as well as by using the app.
Have you heard of the National Parking Platform: https://www.npp.org.uk/ - this seems to be a step in that direction.
gg1
Established Member
No I hadn't, thanks for that.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've only seen that implemented once so far, in the Council car park in Buckingham. Worked for me, only issue is the code number is fairly long to accommodate uniqueness across platforms.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
why oh why is there a sub section of this board and by extension the wider population who seem to revel in making life harder than it needs to be?
Just use a card or your phone or an app. Easier, quicker and less to worry about
Just use a card or your phone or an app. Easier, quicker and less to worry about
So it's now become mandatory to have a phone or smartphone if you need to park anywhere there isn't free street parking.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
How many drivers don't even have a dumbphone? I expect the answer is somewhere around 0. It's important to have one if only for breakdowns and accidents even if mostly left off in the glovebox.
Not mandatory, necessary. Paid for services have always had requirements for specific means of payment, which may have been far from inclusive (I bitterly remember being expected to pay £12 in coins of £1 or less for parking). The adoption of cash free systems is to the advantage of most users and the providers, mitigating cost and making more flexible services possible.
At some point in adoption, where an overwhelming majority of people are able to use the new mode, it becomes unreasonable to expect providers to support the minority mode.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This was certainly worse. Having to have two quid cash for a bus fare is one thing, but getting to a car park and finding payment is £1 coins or below only and it's over a tenner (the Pen Y Pass car park for Snowdon used to be like that, and the miserable cafe owner* was unwilling to help, instead putting up snarky signs) was extremely frustrating - the apps are far, far easier than that nonsense, though I do prefer there being a card-only machine there too.
* OK, they don't *have* to provide change, but it could have been offered as a chargeable service, say "we'll sell you £12 in £1 coins for £15 paid by debit card", and people would have paid. But like toilets small businesses often prefer to tell people to go away than find a way to profit from their desires. Last time I was there I saw that the cafe appears to have closed, and given how awful it was generally in terms of the staff attitude and poor quality product range I couldn't help but be a bit happy and hope its replacement is better!
Worst I had was £6, but it had to be old (round) £1 coins, which were becoming increasingly rare.
I travel internationally quite a bit and rarely take cash with me and it's never a problem
Although I had a Frankfurt taxi driver get huffy for not paying him EUR60 in cash for a trip from the airport. Did he really expect me to have EUR120 in cash just for taxi fares?!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Yes to all intents and purposes. Just use Ringo to pay for your parking. Easy. Quick. Done.
I can't park outside work without my council issued employee permit before 0900. I can only pay in the employee period by app. The permit is loaded onto the app and I don't have, want or need a paper copy.
You can't pay cash. I don't think the parking machines take cash anymore.
The app is quick, easy and safe. Hell, it even knows where you are so you don't need to select a location!
Why make your life harder than it needs to be?
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Wawanesa
Member
As the poster whose comment originated this thread, I see that it has prompted quite a few comments. Clearly some people are a lot younger than me so they have grown up with some of these things. When I opened my first bank account, only Barclays issued credit cards and since I went with Nat West, I wasn't offered one.
I know that people do use phones and apps to pay but I have no idea how that works. Well, I know that an app is a computer program but that is the limit of my knowledge despite having been a computer nerd back in the 1960s.
Our local bus service was withdrawn and replaced by demand responsive transport so I and several people in the village just don't use it because it's all too complicated.
Many small businesses hate people who pay by card. My erstwhile employers did accept cards but because only three or four customers a month used the facility (business to business company), we were charged 3% commission and a £50 monthly standing charge so made a loss on those sales. The problem was that those sales came from companies that wouldn't allow their employees to raise purchase orders so they had no other way to buy products.
I know that people do use phones and apps to pay but I have no idea how that works. Well, I know that an app is a computer program but that is the limit of my knowledge despite having been a computer nerd back in the 1960s.
Our local bus service was withdrawn and replaced by demand responsive transport so I and several people in the village just don't use it because it's all too complicated.
Many small businesses hate people who pay by card. My erstwhile employers did accept cards but because only three or four customers a month used the facility (business to business company), we were charged 3% commission and a £50 monthly standing charge so made a loss on those sales. The problem was that those sales came from companies that wouldn't allow their employees to raise purchase orders so they had no other way to buy products.
Equally, many small businesses hate people who want to pay by cash, simply because it’s a faff and not easy to spend on many things.
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
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I find most places I go remarkably keen to get their hands on my cash when I offer it in note or coin form.
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I very much support your point of view as expressed here. And I think I’m probably significantly younger than you since I wasn’t about for much of the 60s.
I don’t! Many places I use are card only.
WesternLancer
Veteran Member
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Maybe it varies by locality.
Shop I was in the other day were sending some customers away because card machine seemed to have gone wrong.
Happy to take my cash though
DerekC
Established Member
I was in a pub in West Dorset when the power went off in towards the end of the evening when a number of customers had eaten food but not paid for it yet. The landlord was really cool about it, collecting a combination of cash from those who had it, promises to pay tomorrow from customers he knew who hadn't and giving out his bank account details to others. He told me a few days later that only one had failed to pay at all - but it's that sort of pub. Fortunately Mrs C always carries cash just in case!
It does underline the fact that the cashless society is totally dependent on high (or not so very high) tech infrastructure. I guess after the Great Internet Blackout we will be back to barter.
It does underline the fact that the cashless society is totally dependent on high (or not so very high) tech infrastructure. I guess after the Great Internet Blackout we will be back to barter.
In many cases that wouldn't stop people paying by card since the portable card terminals are battery powered and many can connect directly to the 4G/5G mobile network.
This isn't about me, I have a smartphone and I always carry more than one active card, - all with contactless facility. It's the persistence of car parks forcing yet another app to be installed each one with potential to malfunction. The news here that there is a move to create a single app on which many operators will eventually accept payment through may help remove some of the clutter on phones is interesting, but so far many local authorities (including St Alban's here) haven't. But they do have contactless which is acceptable to far more people than a smartphone only option.
There is a problem with the implementation of app payments in car parks; in particular the proliferation of apps and the poor signal in many. In just the same way, I remember times when shops only accepted some cards nd not others.
That is a problem and does need fixing. But the answer is not to go back to a situation where you didn’t know what you might need to pay or how it could be paid.
DelW
Established Member
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I'm a parking app refusenik, so I don't know how they work. But I assume that each separate app requires you to input your bank card details? This perception deters me from using them, as most of these companies seem to be start-ups that appear from nowhere (and may disappear as quickly), and which have unknown levels of (in)security or even potential fraudulence. That's on top of the widely publicised cases of fraudulent QR codes diverting your payment and your account details to criminal scammers. It's hardly surprising that people are dubious about using them.
Using a contactless card is not "goong back". It is a payment method available to anybody who has a bank account, (probably almost everybody who drives a car to a car park). The risk to a transaction the size of a typical parking session failing is lower than that of a phone, and most of that risk is is on the car park's side. Compared with a phone-only method where the risk shifts towards the customer,- maybe part of the reason for that method being pushed.
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Fair comment. But the flip side of that is that the apps I’ve experienced allow me to extend the parking session without hassle or needing to go back to the car; most also cope much better with the transition between chargeable and non-chargeable periods. And where used on street, they are less prone to error than machines.