West London Orbital Consultation

[Bigfoot]

Well TfL obviously think there is. It won't be a bay platform, but a siding to the west of the station.

Or just in, change ends and go. The fastest turn around. Terminating and then going into a siding takes time with an ECS check.

 

[Mikey C]

It baffles me that the current proposal doesn’t include Mildmay line platforms at Old Oak Common. Surely that should be a given.

I'm really surprised the HS2 programme didn't include a Mildmay station in the first place.

It's interesting to compare it's £1B cost to the £1.6B for the DLR Thamesmead extension- it shows how the cost of a long, under thames tunnel has come down, while the cost of a large number of new 2 platform stations has gone up. It's interesting how many post-1994 London rail projects have been either DLR or Overground, which makes sense- either build new, or make the best of what's already there.

Also, does the £1bn include full or part electrification, as at the moment it hasn't been decided whether the route will be fully electrified or not?

Only part of the route is currently electrified - between Acton Wells junction and South Acton - and between Old Kew junction and Hounslow. We are assessing three options for powering trains on the rest of the route:

Full overhead electrification
Partial electrification with hybrid battery‑electric trains
Battery trains charged at end-of-line stations
The decision depends on feasibility, benefits and costs for installing, maintaining and operating each option and how it would fit with the rest of the Overground network.

Unless battery charging at both ends proves feasible, we expect to install overhead electrification between Old Oak Common and Hendon.

 

[evergreenadam]

I'm really surprised the HS2 programme didn't include a Mildmay station in the first place.



Also, does the £1bn include full or part electrification, as at the moment it hasn't been decided whether the route will be fully electrified or not?

The onward journey experience from HS2 will be crucial and I think that has not been given sufficient priority for funding. The Overground connections at OOC are poor, the proposed eastern entrance to the sub surface lines at Euston Square has been ditched and the deep level tube lines at Euston are likely to become overwhelmed with no prospect of Crossrail 2 anytime soon.

 

[westcoaster]

I'm really surprised the HS2 programme didn't include a Mildmay station in the first place.



Also, does the £1bn include full or part electrification, as at the moment it hasn't been decided whether the route will be fully electrified or not?

You would hope they go for OHLE, and run it up to Silkstream junction north of Hendon on the slow lines. One extra benefit of this would be an orbital OHLE ring to enable the new electric freight going to and from the new Radlett rail freight depot.
Also they could then use the excess depot space inside Cricklewood Depot A to E sidings, to stable the stock, and with the OHLE run upto Silkstream jnction there would be a wired connection, to shunt the stock in and out of the depot.

 

[norbitonflyer]

You would hope they go for OHLE, and run it up to Silkstream junction north of Hendon on the slow lines. One extra benefit of this would be an orbital OHLE ring to enable the new electric freight going to and from the new Radlett rail freight depot.

If I recall, one logjam in getting the "Goblin" electrified was that, although both the passenger sector and the freight sector would benefit, each wanted the other to pay.

 

[zwk500]

You would hope they go for OHLE, and run it up to Silkstream junction north of Hendon on the slow lines. One extra benefit of this would be an orbital OHLE ring to enable the new electric freight going to and from the new Radlett rail freight depot.

There would only be an electrified route from Radlett to the GWML even if that extra bit of wiring was done, because the link from the MML to the Goblin at Carlton Road/Junction Road Jns isn't electrified. And the Goblin is missing important connections to the GEML and ECML anyway to really function as an 'orbital OHLE ring', so the NNL would still be doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Perhaps more important for freight would be if WLO electrified the Willesden No 7 - Acton Canal Wharf Link, which would allow electric traction between Acton Yard and Wembley Yard for GWML <> WCML services.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Lack of proper interchanges is a disadvantage but the same could be said of the Suffragette Line (Gospel Oak to Barking). That is a highly successful line now with plenty of passengers throughout the day and justifies its electrification and increased service provision.

The three proper interchange stations on that route - Barking, Blackhorse Road and Gospel Oak - see far more "churn" than do the OSI stations.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Zero space for that at Hounslow currently.

Could they turn the trains using the sidings at the Feltham depot. Would that be too disruptive to the Windsor lines.

 

[RUK]

Stock choice will be interesting.

Will it be possible for Alstom to produce more 710's?

Also should be designed as 5 car from the start rather than the situation on the gob from videos where trains are only 4 car and rammed in the peaks!

I guess it’ll be possible, but I don’t think they’ll want to do that - I think Alstom will offer the Adessia Stream UK, which is basically a low-floor-entrance’d version of the Aventra, similar to what they’ll be making for the new TransPennine Express award but with more doors, like the mock-up shown when Andy Burnham visited Derby some weeks ago, so there’ll probably still be some spare parts commonality with the Class 710s.

 

[RGM654]

It baffles me that the current proposal doesn’t include Mildmay line platforms at Old Oak Common. Surely that should be a given.

Someone coming from the Richmond direction on the Mildmay Line would need to change to the new service at South Acton or Acton Central in order to get off at OOC. There may be good reason for excluding Mildmay Line platforms from this project as such, but not providing them at all is daft -- or do I mean DafT?

The map https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/49699/widgets/150493/documents/110963 doesn't show where the station entrance(s) would be, but for access to OOC itself there would have to be one on Old Oak Common Lane, hence, I suppose, using that name for the station. It would seem to make sense to include one on Victoria Road on the other side of the line as well.

 

[ClivePage]

I do find it a bit odd that the option of going to West Hampstead Thameslink is downplayed so much even if it might be a bit more expensive. Essentially the report says that there are already plenty of ways of getting to West Hampstead so that new services simply aren't required. But that very fact makes it a much more useful interchange point than either Hendon or Brent Cross West.

Their route map is also being disingenuous in having an arrow north from Hendon marked "Luton and airport". There are at present very few trains between Luton/Airport Parkway to Hendon or Brent Cross West, and I gather that the current Luton to Rainham services which do indeed stop there twice an hour (if you are lucky enough to find them not cancelled) will not be starting at Luton at all after the next timetable change. So that will make it a very unattractive airport connection service for those coming from west London.

 

[JonathanH]

Their route map is also being disingenuous in having an arrow north from Hendon marked "Luton and airport". There are at present very few trains between Luton/Airport Parkway to Hendon or Brent Cross West, and I gather that the current Luton to Rainham services which do indeed stop there twice an hour (if you are lucky enough to find them not cancelled) will not be starting at Luton at all after the next timetable change.

Part of the St Albans to Sutton service is being extended to Luton to compensate for withdrawal of the Rainham service north of Kentish Town - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...17/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

 

[Dave W]

Links across North West London are shocking. This is a relatively cheap, easy to achieve enhancement to an area that could really do with it. Interesting to see how they manage Brent Cross West - the consultation says that provision was made in building the station but I can't see - on the ground or aerial maps - how that works. Someone will put me right I'm sure.

 

[rmHawk765]

Slightly cynical but I really do think this isn't the best use of money. Perhaps to form part of a future outer orbital route, maybe.

There are existing lines around London that have needed improvement for years, and there's never any news about these.

 

[cle]

It baffles me that the current proposal doesn’t include Mildmay line platforms at Old Oak Common. Surely that should be a given.

Very possibly these would be their own project, and needed without / before WLO. As they are more about HS2 and dispersal of people in ways that are not 100% Elizabeth line... I'd hope these come before, it's far more important than the WLO in terms of connections.

Will Acton Wells Junction be 4 tracked?

It says additional tracks will be added, it wasn't super specific but appears o.

Shame it can’t go a little further to St Albans or Luton, as I imagine the Luton Airport connection would be very valuable, but the Thameslink line is no doubt full.

The Rainham currently stops at all stations except Hendon. I’m assuming that would be changed once this WLO service were to begin.

It was extended from Brent Cross West already - Hendon and the wider area (Colindale especially) has had a ton of development. The Brent Cross bit needs to catch up and become better utilized, frankly. And yes, Hendon is 8 car only for TL, whereas Rainhams can be 12.

As for the terminating at Hounslow - hopefully there is time to make it work ok, if a bay is possible. As to other destinations, and without getting speculative - the nearest feasible options would be around to Twickenham (which does have lines/platforms to spare - and is a destination) - or towards Staines and Windsor.

 

[Zeremony]

Zero space for that at Hounslow currently.

I think I read in an article on the RAIL Magazine website that it is proposed to widen the lines west of Hounslow station for two reversing sidings.

 

[Dstock7080]

Could they turn the trains using the sidings at the Feltham depot. Would that be too disruptive to the Windsor lines.

The sidings only have access from the Feltham end, so would require a shunt back from the station and similar upon exit

 

[minimann]

Great to see this finally at consultation however it should be remembered that this featured in the Mayor's 2016 manifesto. So if there is no more delay it will be 20 years!

I do think they miss a trick in the West, Feltham is a significant regeneration area and bringing that onto the overground if they could make it work would be a major win, it also opens up green belt sites to the West for stabling.

 

[Benjwri]

I do think they miss a trick in the West, Feltham is a significant regeneration area and bringing that onto the overground if they could make it work would be a major win, it also opens up green belt sites to the West for stabling.

Would be eye wateringly, and impractically, expensive to change Feltham Junction to be able to handle 4, potentially 6,tph extra

 

[philjo]

You would hope they go for OHLE, and run it up to Silkstream junction north of Hendon on the slow lines. One extra benefit of this would be an orbital OHLE ring to enable the new electric freight going to and from the new Radlett rail freight depot.
Also they could then use the excess depot space inside Cricklewood Depot A to E sidings, to stable the stock, and with the OHLE run upto Silkstream jnction there would be a wired connection, to shunt the stock in and out of the depot.

It would also be helpful to also have a new station in that area where the line crosses Aerodrome Road to serve all the additional housing that is being built in the Colindale area. It would also be adjacent to the RAF Museum.