Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 810 for EMR?

[Russel]

I feel another risk is we do not really know what state these spare 221s are in ?.

This is my concern, these 221s have been sat in Derby for the best part of two years, possibly longer, we've seen what has happened to the 175s after being left unused...

We can only hope Alstom have looked after them while they've been at Derby.

While XC's service may be seriously overcrowded, they are fairly reliable, the last thing we need is to solve one problem and replace it with one that is worse.

 

[thelongestroad]

Perhaps Lumo should have done some due diligence then. Makes me laugh when a TOC says they're much worse than expected - perhaps send someout out to go and travel on them with their current operator; that would give a fair idea of train condition for passenger facing items. See also GWR and the 175s.

Erm didn't GWR have them out of the sidings in storage? How would you propose they do that?

 

[43096]

Erm didn't GWR have them out of the sidings in storage? How would you propose they do that?

That in itself ought to be a good indicator that the condition is not going to be great.

 

[Snow1964]

While XC's service may be seriously overcrowded, they are fairly reliable, the last thing we need is to solve one problem and replace it with one that is worse.

You must use a lower threshold of fairly reliable than me

The XC inter-city (voyager routes) latest performance
cancellations 9.5%. (10% previous period 4)
on time 33.7% (33.3% period 4)
within 3 minutes 52.4% (51.8% period 4)

If XC aren't operating about tenth of their services consistently, then it's debatable if the actually have big enough fleet to operate all their scheduled trains

Key Business Performance Indicators | CrossCountry Trains

Discover CrossCountry's train performance, including delays and cancellation rates, passenger satisfaction, and complaints.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

 

[AndrewE]

You must use a lower threshold of fairly reliable than me

The XC inter-city (voyager routes) latest performance
cancellations 9.5%. (10% previous period 4)
on time 33.7% (33.3% period 4)
within 3 minutes 52.4% (51.8% period 4)

If XC aren't operating about tenth of their services consistently, then it's debatable if the actually have big enough fleet to operate all their scheduled trains

...or alternately enough staff.

 

[Russel]

You must use a lower threshold of fairly reliable than me

The XC inter-city (voyager routes) latest performance
cancellations 9.5%. (10% previous period 4)
on time 33.7% (33.3% period 4)
within 3 minutes 52.4% (51.8% period 4)

If XC aren't operating about tenth of their services consistently, then it's debatable if the actually have big enough fleet to operate all their scheduled trains

Key Business Performance Indicators | CrossCountry Trains

Discover CrossCountry's train performance, including delays and cancellation rates, passenger satisfaction, and complaints.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

I meant reliable from a mechanical point of view, not train crew availability.

 

[AndrewE]

I meant reliable from a mechanical point of view, not train crew availability.

yes, but XC have got stock that they run in trains but won't let people use... Are we sure that after all this time EMT could crew all their trains if they suddenly (miraculously) had a full fleet available?

 

[Russel]

yes, but XC have got stock that they run in trains but won't let people use... Are we sure that after all this time EMT could crew all their trains if they suddenly (miraculously) had a full fleet available?

As I clarified earlier, my post was about the fleet reliability side of things, which XC generally do okay with.

The traincrew, or lack of, it a different discussion.

 

[tram21]

yes, but XC have got stock that they run in trains but won't let people use... Are we sure that after all this time EMT could crew all their trains if they suddenly (miraculously) had a full fleet available?

Yes, EMR are not short of crew to cover a full timetable..

 

[Kettledrum]

certainly more difficult than inconveniencing your passengers, making them stand on crowded trains etc, yet still charging them top dollar for a poor service

although presumably with delay repay, the income must be vastly reduced for EMR.......not to mention Sheffield passengers choosing to use LNER from Doncaster

 

[Trainman40083]

Just imagine if EMR was going to have 180113 in the fleet again. It moved from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh this morning.

 

[Kettledrum]

Spot on, everyone knew the units had been rundown so why didn't LUMO get Alstom to go over the units before signing the contract to accept them, start paying the leasing fees and use them?

or even spend a few minutes reading the threads on here

 

[CDM Transport]

Just imagine if EMR was going to have 180113 in the fleet again. It moved from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh this morning.

What are the plans for that unit?

 

[Trainman40083]

What are the plans for that unit?

I have no idea, unless it is part of a plan to release the two 221 units at Grand Central.

 

[Bald Rick]

although presumably with delay repay, the income must be vastly reduced for EMR

not really. The % of services that trigger delay repay due to 810 problems is pretty small.

 

[londonmidland]

Some of the 221s are still coming to EMR.

Others will be able to explain in more detail.

 

[ENC Rail]

Some of the 221s are still coming to EMR.

Others will be able to explain in more detail.

Are the two Grand Central 221s going to EMR and 221101 - 221106 going to XC? Presumably the 180s will displace the 221s from Grand Central.

 

[Aaron_TTL]

Are the two Grand Central 221s going to EMR and 221101 - 221106 going to XC? Presumably the 180s will displace the 221s from Grand Central.

Wonder the logic there, what use is 2x 221's for EMR? Once they get rid of all their 222's that seems a very very tiny micro fleet.

 

[CR165022]

Wonder the logic there, what use is 2x 221's for EMR? Once they get rid of all their 222's that seems a very very tiny micro fleet.

It's not like the 221s would be staying long term, only to cover until the 222s and 810s are more reliable

 

[Trainman40083]

Are the two Grand Central 221s going to EMR and 221101 - 221106 going to XC? Presumably the 180s will displace the 221s from Grand Central.

Surely it would take 10 years to make the Class 180s reliable. They haven't been the best of units. Add to that how long they have been in store.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Surely it would take 10 years to make the Class 180s reliable. They haven't been the best of units. Add to that how long they have been in store.

Yes. Sadly there are not a lot of spare diesel units. But there are a lot of recently stored EMUs at Long Marston. If only we electrified more.....

So a desperate solution would be to use 350s from St Pancras to wherever the electrification has got to - Kettering / Market Harborough ?. Then connect there with the dwindling number of DMUs Northwards. I think I am only semi serious but it sums up the ironic situation we are in.

I cannot remember how long it is since there was a post on the MML electrification thread.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

So a desperate solution would be to use 350s from St Pancras to wherever the electrification has got to - Kettering / Market Harborough ?. Then connect there with the dwindling number of DMUs Northwards. I think I am only semi serious but it sums up the ironic situation we are in.

The 350/2s are no longer on the market, Northern are having them.
And EMR already have some Desiros, in fact they're using well under the amount they have because they don't have a proper depot! Adding more EMUs would just make the problem worse.

By the time you could introduce a new fleet the 810s will probably be reliable enough.

 

[londonmidland]

I cannot remember how long it is since there was a post on the MML electrification thread.

Short term gain, long term pain sums it up.

It will end up costing significantly more vs if we had just stuck with a continuous electrification program.

Though any further progress of electrification of the MML seems well and truly dead in the water.

 

[Killingworth]

Though any further progress of electrification of the MML seems well and truly dead in the water.

Like Swansea and Bristol!

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes. Sadly there are not a lot of spare diesel units. But there are a lot of recently stored EMUs at Long Marston. If only we electrified more.....

So a desperate solution would be to use 350s from St Pancras to wherever the electrification has got to - Kettering / Market Harborough ?. Then connect there with the dwindling number of DMUs Northwards. I think I am only semi serious but it sums up the ironic situation we are in.

I cannot remember how long it is since there was a post on the MML electrification thread.

I think many of the stored units at Long Marston (apart from the 350/2s replacing 323s at Northern, were mainly 701 units for South Western.. Very few places there to store them as they enter service. Maybe some GWR etc 769s, that no-one seems to want

 

[BorderCollie]

I see 221106 has been moved from Litchurch Lane to Central Rivers...

 

[DanCardwell]

221106 was back at Litchurch Lane on Friday 2nd...

 

[trainswitheddy]

Some of the 221s are still coming to EMR.

Others will be able to explain in more detail.

Are the others in the room with us right now? D: