SSR resignalling

[ijmad]

Well then, that's great news!

 

[Dstock7080]

Is the “operational incident” that’s got the lines suspended at the minute related to this?

Nothing at all, communications failed between Power Control and the bulk supply point at Whitechapel before services started. Took until 08.40 for all Lines to resume.

There was a Staff error which required traction current to be removed in the Cromwell curve-Victoria section from around 11.15. Services resumed at 12.25

 

[Scotrail88]

Sorry for ignorance but what did the 2 elements of switch over achieve in actual speed increases

 

[Dstock7080]

Sorry for ignorance but what did the 2 elements of switch over achieve in actual speed increases.

As mentioned above, faster acceleration away from stations,
maximum now:
46mph Ravenscourt Park-Stamford Brook westbound
40mph Hammersmith-Barons Court eastbound
46mph Fulham Bdwy-Parsons Green westbound, 45mph eastbound
(sadly only 8mph along Parsons Green platform)
36mph Parsons Green-Putney Bridge westbound
40mph Putney Bridge-East Putney westbound. 42mph eastbound.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

(sadly only 8mph along Parsons Green platform)

Just noticed this, why?

 

[Dstock7080]

Just noticed this, why?

Guessing, risk of overrunning onto no.18 points.

 

[Nym]

Or perhaps it's coded up as a platform, closed station to enforces the operational rule?

 

[Dstock7080]

Or perhaps it's coded up as a platform, closed station to enforces the operational rule?

which would be 19mph in CBTC.

 

[D7666]

One thing which will be interesting is the fact that every single s7 stock will need to keep the tripcock equipment, which is surely going to add on a significant amount of cost to maintain just for a small sections of the West end District. Have tfl considered removing tripcock equipment on some s7s? So these would be confined to the Circle, H&C services?

Going back to that question, perhaps a fairly fundamental point has been missed - one that leads to the need for all S7 to retain tripcocks.

Ealing Common depot.

Depot is west of Stamford Brook, which the western boundary of CBTC. So with this weekends changes, that is the end (for forseeable future) of District resignalling => any S7 needs tripcocks to reach Ealing Common depot.

Mixed tripcock/no-tripcock would mean CBTC only no-tripcock S7 could only be maintained at Upminster, and that in turn would be a much much bigger complexication than dealing with odd failures. You'd end up having to rotate the entire Circle and H&C S7 from Upminster, even if on any one day they were berthed at Barking or Hammersmith or anywhere else they'd still need rotating via Upminster and could not go to Ealing Common.

LU generally does know what it is doing with these things.

 

[bluegoblin7]

It’s also worth noting that S7s also rotate via Neasden depot for heavier maintenance and overhaul/lift. Whilst that doesn’t impact the removal of tripcocks, it is a further complication.

 

[Mawkie]

Came across this site today, sorry if it's been reported here before. They appear to be dismayed at the lack of improvement in signalling on the Wimbledon branch.

Worth mentioning they are having a 'peaceful commuter demonstration' at Wimbledon Station on Thursday 17th Sept.

The campaign — Fix The District

Decades-old signalling, no funded fix, and a Government that now controls both the trains and the budget. Here's the case for fixing the Wimbledon branch — and how to join us.

fixthedistrict.org

 

[bramling]

Came across this site today, sorry if it's been reported here before. They appear to be dismayed at the lack of improvement in signalling on the Wimbledon branch.

Worth mentioning they are having a 'peaceful commuter demonstration' at Wimbledon Station on Thursday 17th Sept.

The campaign — Fix The District

Decades-old signalling, no funded fix, and a Government that now controls both the trains and the budget. Here's the case for fixing the Wimbledon branch — and how to join us.

fixthedistrict.org

Must admit their case is quite well made and they seem informed.

I’ve never really understood why this section seems so problematic. 1980s signalling isn’t excessively old, and it’s a fairly simple section of line.

 

[gfa]

I would never live on that branch - it sounds absolutely miserable and has done for several years.

 

[GFE]

Would be interested in the substance of their data, is it just a few people making notes or some sort of automated analysis based on open source train movement data?
I don't see how they can say there is 0 funding when in the wording they acknowledge investment/improvements have been made/planned following the issues raised relating to Wimbledon tennis over the last couple of years.
Basically they seem to be pushing to raise the priority of the Network rail/GBR plans for resignalling or track (points & drainage) works in the Wimbledon area.
I would be interested in the route cause of the delays/cancellations - is it a problem with the equipment in that area or were trains cancelled/turned short due to other issues on the line? - Not dissimilar to the Epping MP campaign on the Central line.

 

[Backroom_boy]

I wonder if the cbtc being extended to East Putney will improve or worsen the service on the rest of the line to Wimbledon?

 

[bluegoblin7]

There will (should) be better live information across the whole branch - even outside of the CBTC area - but otherwise it's unlikely to have much change. As much as the Parsons Green area was on a very old signalling control system the actual interlocking was relatively robust. Many of the issues on the Wimbledon branch come from the Network Rail side of things and there's been no major work done there.

 

[GFE]

Whilst there may be some specific trackside reliability issues on the Network Rail infrastructure. looking through the campaign data set:
Firstly the current campaign summary currently says 47% of delays occured when TFL status was "good" - Ie no specific failure and typical of train cancellations (not infrastructure issues) , "cancellations" also commonly noted in text of delays reported in morning rush hours.
When you go into the data set:
The worst reported recent delay was 60 mins on 12 Sept - This was due to weekend closure / replacement bus service.
The 14 day reliability chart for the branch is similar to the whole line, The exception being on 9/9 when there was a signal failure at High St Kens/Edgware Rd.
8 reports totalling 145 mins delays on 27/8 am due to disruption associated with South Ken fire.

 

[Bald Rick]

Whilst there may be some specific trackside reliability issues on the Network Rail infrastructure

It’s not NR infrastructure.

 

[Edvid]

A little snippet from the Commissioner's Report (page 24) for next week's TfL Board meeting:

Four lines modernisation

The next phase of the programme will continue this transformation, with further closures planned in November, including the commissioning of signal migration area nine, covering the wider Harrow-on-the-Hill area.

On that note, where exactly are the LU/NR ownership boundaries on the Aylesbury line? I came across a drivers' eye view video of it and timestamped where I think the northern boundary is (22:46)...

I'm not sure about the southern boundary but I think it's somewhere between 47:12 (LU signals) and 47:28 (NR milepost).

 

[coguni]

Surely the long term solution for the Wimbledon branch is for SWT to stop using it so upgrading it becomes simpler and cheaper? I can't believe it's critical to their operation given how few trains actually use it (20 per day according to RTT). Presumably the worst case is that those trains would have to enter/leave the depot via the Kingston loop line. That doesn't feel like an insurmountable operational problem.

 

[Mojo]

I'm not sure about the southern boundary but I think it's somewhere between 47:12 (LU signals) and 47:28 (NR milepost).

The northern boundary is at 22:46, you can see signs in the cess just after the speed sign.

The southern boundary is at 46:54. If you stop the video you can see the sign on the left just before the speed restriction sign (and corresponding sign on the right).

 

[Edvid]

The southern boundary is at 46:54. If you stop the video you can see the sign on the left just before the speed restriction sign (and corresponding sign on the right).

Interesting. I wasn't sure about those particular signs because of the tripcocks at 47:12/13 on both tracks, which puts them in NR territory.

 

[Mojo]

Interesting. I wasn't sure about those particular signs because of the tripcocks at 47:12/13 on both tracks, which puts them in NR territory.

This is correct, the first signal after the boundary on the Up is an LU signal and the last signal on the Down is also an LU signal (the latter also having a repeater).

 

[bluegoblin7]

Signalling, ownership, maintenance and operational boundaries are often in different places.

 

[Dstock7080]

SMA9 commissioning now scheduled for 7-8 November.

 

[Metrider]

SMA9 commissioning now scheduled for 7-8 November.

Once this is done, will this mean that trains no longer have to briefly stop between Preston Road and Northwick Park?

 

[penfold22]

That is correct. SMA9 area extends the overall boundary of the Met Line further north to Moor Park/West Harrow so (hopefully) there will no longer be that brief stop - at least as far as switching from CBTC to Trainstop operation that is.

 

[plunet]

Would it be the case that trains need to briefly stop at the new Moor Park / West Harrow boundaries once SMA9 goes live? And would that also now impact Chiltern, I assume not?

 

[Mojo]

Would it be the case that trains need to briefly stop at the new Moor Park / West Harrow boundaries once SMA9 goes live?

Yes, but all passenger trains stop at these locations anyway, so it would only effect empty trains.

And would that also now impact Chiltern, I assume not?

Wouldn't affect Chiltern which would remain in tripcock.

 

[RUK]

With some of Chiltern’s DMUs reaching end-of-life in the foreseeable future, will whatever new replacement rolling stock that Chiltern gets in the future have to have multiple signalling systems, including CBTC, or will they just remain tripcock-based?