First Rail Stirling (Lumo) Rolling Stock

[JonathanH]

The situation with Lumo is odd in the sense they have no spare sets. If you look at the 379 introduction they started off with small self contained diagrams. Lumo don’t have that luxury.

They have five units for four diagrams, but because the depot isn't on the route they have to swap units as part of the service.

 

[scosutsut]

There are nothing but horror stories about the 222s, really not looking forward to the HST replacement... Maybe it's down to the operator, but ScotRail aren't the best at keeping their stock clean either. Their 170s are absolutely disgusting

I don't hold out much hope, ScotRail have completely given up on internal and external appearance fleet wide. All their stock is disgusting.

 

[800001]

I don't hold out much hope, ScotRail have completely given up on internal and external appearance fleet wide. All their stock is disgusting.

All of there stock?

I would have thought the 385s would be under a strict cleaning schedule via Hitachi.

 

[InvernessTMD]

All of there stock?

I would have thought the 385s would be under a strict cleaning schedule via Hitachi.

That explains why the 385s are the nicest and cleanest stock under ScotRail by a country mile. Getting a connection on a 170 coming from a 385 gives you whiplash, the difference in hygiene is so awful.

The situation with Lumo is odd in the sense they have no spare sets. If you look at the 379 introduction they started off with small self contained diagrams. Lumo don’t have that luxury. Hopefully Scotrail will do a good refurbishment as well. However you don’t need me to tell you the HST introduction had some challenges as well. I get the impression Scotrail won’t be in as much of a hurry and can keep the HSTs if there are lots of issues.

What were the issues with ScotRail HSTs initially? Can't say I ever rode on one early on in their service or heard anything

I don't hold out much hope, ScotRail have completely given up on internal and external appearance fleet wide. All their stock is disgusting.

Absolutely. It's really saddening to see. The state of ScotRail is awful, the only decent journeys I've had on ScotRail in recent memory have been to and from Stirling/Edinburgh on 385s off peak, clean and quiet. Went up to Dundee for the Discovery Double SRPS tour a few months back. Back to back 170s. The one from Camelon was disgusting and pretty full, although we did get seats alright. The one from Haymarket was genuinely horrifying cleanliness wise and so full that by the time we were crossing the Forth at Inverkeithing we were stuck where we stood and wouldn't have been able to get to the toilets (or an emergency exit!) if we needed to. Would've had a nice view on the journey as the saving grace... if you could see out the piggin' windows for grime!

 

[Wyrleybart]

Lumo should really be discussing leasing another set to resolve these issues, at least in the short term - they’re mid life, they were clearly not going to be of the AT300 standard.


If that’s the case, how did they deal with 9 car 222s? I’m not doubting your insight but it seems rather shortsighted.

AIUI the 9 car 222s were always allocated to EP and major exams were dealt with there. I wouldn't be surprised if the 9 car and 7 car 222s had a "splash and dash" FP exam at CZ, but that is entirely different to 222/6 being allocated to CZ anc having major maintenance performed there.

 

[Failed Unit]

That explains why the 385s are the nicest and cleanest stock under ScotRail by a country mile. Getting a connection on a 170 coming from a 385 gives you whiplash, the difference in hygiene is so awful.

What were the issues with ScotRail HSTs initially? Can't say I ever rode on one early on in their service or heard anything

Absolutely. It's really saddening to see. The state of ScotRail is awful, the only decent journeys I've had on ScotRail in recent memory have been to and from Stirling/Edinburgh on 385s off peak, clean and quiet. Went up to Dundee for the Discovery Double SRPS tour a few months back. Back to back 170s. The one from Camelon was disgusting and pretty full, although we did get seats alright. The one from Haymarket was genuinely horrifying cleanliness wise and so full that by the time we were crossing the Forth at Inverkeithing we were stuck where we stood and wouldn't have been able to get to the toilets (or an emergency exit!) if we needed to. Would've had a nice view on the journey as the saving grace... if you could see out the piggin' windows for grime!

I can’t remember the specifics. The program was late so non-refurbished trains needed to be used for a while. (I think that was because fitting the sliding doors was more challenging than expected among other reasons). No 2 coaches were the same with respect to work needed.

Reliability was also very poor at the beginning.

 

[cats_five]

I don't hold out much hope, ScotRail have completely given up on internal and external appearance fleet wide. All their stock is disgusting.

For the first time in quite a while I travelled on Scotrail to visit North Queensferry. Train there was direct from Dundee, standing room only from Markinch but the carriage I was in was acceptably clean though carpet just inside the inner door into the carriage was worn. The two two on the way back were also clean enough inside & out - I had to change at Inverkeithing. Sadly the bushes etc. are now blocking some of the splendid views where the line runs right alongside the Forth but that's nothing to do with Scotrail.

 

[jamiestuart314]

There are nothing but horror stories about the 222s, really not looking forward to the HST replacement... Maybe it's down to the operator, but ScotRail aren't the best at keeping their stock clean either. Their 170s are absolutely disgusting

Difference is however I believe ScotRail are doing a full refurbishment, so I assume they'll be stripping them quite far back and give them a good clean in the process.. should hopefully keep them nice enough for a couple of months until their maintainance catches up

 

[Trainman40083]

Difference is however I believe ScotRail are doing a full refurbishment, so I assume they'll be stripping them quite far back and give them a good clean in the process.. should hopefully keep them nice enough for a couple of months until their maintainance catches up

I understood Alstom at Derby is doing the refurbishment works.

 

[jamiestuart314]

I understood Alstom at Derby is doing the refurbishment works.

Yeah, Its just whether ScotRail maintainance will keep them in such a state.. Looking at their other trains its unlikely, which is quite sad as a few years ago they were doing a great job maintaining 318/320 fleets, No idea why its gone so downhill in recent years

 

[Trainman40083]

Yeah, Its just whether ScotRail maintainance will keep them in such a state.. Looking at their other trains its unlikely, which is quite sad as a few years ago they were doing a great job maintaining 318/320 fleets, No idea why its gone so downhill in recent years

Been a few years, since I was on ScotRail. 2019 I think.. I guess following COVID, and less passengers, if the Government has a constraint on money, some things don't get done.

 

[GordonT]

They have five units for four diagrams, but because the depot isn't on the route they have to swap units as part of the service.

For the second day running Lumo have ditched one of their diagrams and left other operators to pick up their abandoned passengers.

Due to a fault with the train planned to operate these services, regrettably these trains will be cancelled.

Ticket acceptance granted on the following services -

For the 06:11 Euston to Striling cancelled service -
Avanti - 06:33 London Euston - Edinburgh (07:04 at Milton Keynes Central, 09:41 at Preston, 11:00 at Carlisle)
Avanti - 07:16 London Euston - Glasgow Central (07:50 at Milton Keynes Central, 10:50 at Preston, 11:57 at Carlisle)
Avanti - 07:30 London Euston - Glasgow Central (09:39 at Preston)
TPE - 10:06 Preston - Glasgow Central (11:38 at Lockerbie, 12:22 at Motherwell).
Scotrail Edinburgh, Glasgow Central, Whifflet, Greenfaulds, Larbert, Stirling. Blanket ticket acceptance.

For the 12:22 Stirling to Euston cancelled service -
Avanti - 13:33 Glasgow Central - London Euston (13:50 at Motherwell, 14:48 at Carlisle, 16:00 at Preston)
LNWR - 18:11 Crewe to London Euston (18:10 at Nuneaton, 18:48 at Milton Keynes Central)
LNWR - 17:28 Milton Keynes Central to London Euston
Avanti - 13:38 Glasgow Central - London Euston (14:55 at Carlisle, 16:18 at Preston)
TPE - 14:09 Lockerbie Manchester Airport (14:30 At Carlisle, 15:46 at Preston).
Scotrail Glasgow Central, Whifflet, Greenfaulds, Larbert, Stirling. Blanket ticket acceptance.

For the 19:19 Euston to Preston cancelled service -
Avanti - 18:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central (20:38 at Preston,)
Avanti - 19:30 London Euston to Glasgow Central (21:43 at Preston)
Avanti - 19:43 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street (20:13 at Milton Keynes Central, 21:26 at Crewe)
LNWR - 19:49 London Euston to Crewe (20:18 at Milton Keynes Central, 20:53 at Nuneaton)

 

[Wyrleybart]

For the second day running Lumo have ditched one of their diagrams and left other operators to pick up their abandoned passengers.

Quelle surprise !! There is a long history of transferring a traction to a new operator and it's new staff - then wondering why they are not 100% available. And that is without spending some money on overhauling the critical onboard stuff.

Passengers should not be expected to cross their legs for five hours, no matter how much little they have paid for the privilege.

 

[Carlisle]

Passengers should not be expected to cross their legs for five hours, no matter how much little they have paid for the privilege.

You’d think it’d be cheaper to have an onboard fitter cover a few of these units journeys rather than incurring the cost of continuous cancellations, or does it cost open access operators virtually nothing to cancel services anyway?

 

[37069]

You’d think it’d be cheaper to have an onboard fitter cover a few of these units journeys rather than incurring the cost of continuous cancellations, or does it cost open access operators virtually nothing to cancel services anyway?

I presume a lot of the problems come down to either the toilet water tanks not being filled or the retention tanks not being emptied. Between that and the fuel situation, there's not much a travelling fitter can do.