Finding walking routes in Scotland

[Sasomida]

Moderator note - split from:

Caledonian Sleeper

The Caledonian Sleeper thread was closed because matters were being raised in it that were also in other threads. It was a shame because I found it the most interesting thread on the forum and hence I now visit here less often. Today another poster has asked a question in a rolling stock thread...

www.railforums.co.uk

I have a lot of options now

One plan is seats to Fort William, walk out (Ben Nevis is not going to be the target for my first hill/mountain walking visit to Scotland for a long time) somewhere but avoiding the mountain tops, stay in a bothy, walk on to Corrour, seats back to Birmingham. Looks like around 30 miles in total, carrying a fair amount, so that plan might change.

An alternative is walk to Glen Nevis YH and spend the second day walking as far up Ben Nevis as I feel I need to.

Either way, I might sleep on the way back despite being in the seats.

Or explore Fort William for a bit, train to Mallaig, stay on the coast, come back down on Sunday (shame about the 1939-1950 connection from Mallaig, which feels a little risky, especially as NationalRail seems to be insisting that the CS leaves at 1900).

Or stay somewhere, Ember down to somewhere, jump back on the CS halfway back to Glasgow.

 

[cats_five]

I have a lot of options now

One plan is seats to Fort William, walk out (Ben Nevis is not going to be the target for my first hill/mountain walking visit to Scotland for a long time) somewhere but avoiding the mountain tops, stay in a bothy, walk on to Corrour, seats back to Birmingham. Looks like around 30 miles in total, carrying a fair amount, so that plan might change.

An alternative is walk to Glen Nevis YH and spend the second day walking as far up Ben Nevis as I feel I need to.

Either way, I might sleep on the way back despite being in the seats.

Or explore Fort William for a bit, train to Mallaig, stay on the coast, come back down on Sunday (shame about the 1939-1950 connection from Mallaig, which feels a little risky, especially as NationalRail seems to be insisting that the CS leaves at 1900).

Or stay somewhere, Ember down to somewhere, jump back on the CS halfway back to Glasgow.

The Mamores (just to the south of Glen Nevis) are well worth exploring and are very accessible from Glen Nevis, rather than walk part-way up the tourist route. I use MWIS for mountain weather but it only covers the next 3 days.

The walk through to Corrour will probably be midge central...

Lots of suggestions on the WalkHighlands website:

Fort William and Glen Nevis walks

Fort William is the largest settlement on the whole western coastline of the Highlands, its stunning location having enabled it to become the self-styled 'Outdoor Capital' for all kinds of adventure activities. It is a cross-roads of major long-distance walking routes, a convenient base for...

www.walkhighlands.co.uk

The town is also the gateway to Glen Nevis, one of the most picturesque of all glens. This leads not just along the foot of the Ben itself but past the stunning ridges of the Mamores and through the dramatic Nevis Gorge to Steall Falls - surely one of the most dramatic destinations for a shorter walk in all Scotland.

 

[Sasomida]

WalkHighlands definitely sounds like the place to go to pick walking routes. Avoiding midge central would probably be sensible, since I'd probably regret planning as if there isn't a midge issue.

 

[styles]

WalkHighlands definitely sounds like the place to go to pick walking routes. Avoiding midge central would probably be sensible, since I'd probably regret planning as if there isn't a midge issue.

WalkHighlands is a really reputable site. Unlike on OS Maps, AllTrails, Komoot, etc where any user can publish their route; the routes are all reviewed by the site staff who are mountaineers living in the Cairngorms. They gave up their full time jobs to run the site, and one of the pair has written over a dozen guidebooks as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

WalkHighlands is a really reputable site. Unlike on OS Maps, AllTrails, Komoot, etc where any user can publish their route; the routes are all reviewed by the site staff who are mountaineers living in the Cairngorms. They gave up their full time jobs to run the site, and one of the pair has written over a dozen guidebooks as well.

That's really useful to know. The lack of marked footpaths on OS maps in Scotland is more than a little bit of a nuisance, and Strava heatmaps only do so much.

I'm well aware that the public footpath situation differs from England and Wales (i.e. that you don't need to worry about them), but the lack of marked black dotted paths (physical paths) is an annoyance as it makes it really hard to work out where might be decent to walk without some sort of additional guide. In England/Wales it's rarely like Scotland other than for some reason Moel Siabod!

 

[The exile]

That's really useful to know. The lack of marked footpaths on OS maps in Scotland is more than a little bit of a nuisance, and Strava heatmaps only do so much.

I'm well aware that the public footpath situation differs from England and Wales (i.e. that you don't need to worry about them), but the lack of marked black dotted paths (physical paths) is an annoyance as it makes it really hard to work out where might be decent to walk without some sort of additional guide. In England/Wales it's rarely like Scotland other than for some reason Moel Siabod!

Although you’re saved the E&W problem of suddenly discovering that the path you’re following has vanished through lack of use

 

[settlelad]

That's really useful to know. The lack of marked footpaths on OS maps in Scotland is more than a little bit of a nuisance, and Strava heatmaps only do so much.

I'm well aware that the public footpath situation differs from England and Wales (i.e. that you don't need to worry about them), but the lack of marked black dotted paths (physical paths) is an annoyance as it makes it really hard to work out where might be decent to walk without some sort of additional guide. In England/Wales it's rarely like Scotland other than for some reason Moel Siabod!

Scotways / Scottish Rights of Way Society has good information on hill tracks, and publishes guides and books and has a decent map on its website, e.g.:
https://scotways.com/heritage-paths/map/#zoom=8.641&lat=56.972069&lon=-3.932860&seq=8

 

[styles]

Although you’re saved the E&W problem of suddenly discovering that the path you’re following has vanished through lack of use

Indeed, and a lot of people follow the green lines (OS 1:25k) maps but don't realise they may want to check there is a black dashed path underneath - the green merely representing a right of way, the black representing something actually observed to be there. There was an issue with people following a public right of way off High Spy in the Lakes and it went over some crags at Nitting Haws and the local mountain rescue team spent a lot of effort trying to convince the local authority to change the public right of way (something which is notoriously difficult to do).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, and a lot of people follow the green lines (OS 1:25k) maps but don't realise they may want to check there is a black dashed path underneath - the green merely representing a right of way, the black representing something actually observed to be there. There was an issue with people following a public right of way off High Spy in the Lakes and it went over some crags at Nitting Haws and the local mountain rescue team spent a lot of effort trying to convince the local authority to change the public right of way (something which is notoriously difficult to do).

There was a proposal to remove the public rights of way from OS maps where there is no physical path and where it is access land in England/Wales, but fortunately that didn't go through. I say fortunately because access land does not convey the same rights as a PRoW - in particular that access land is easier to close (and was closed in some parts of the Peak at the height of the wildfire crisis) and that access land can carry other rules such as regarding use with groups*, whereas a public right of way offers the absolute right to "pass and repass" the same as a road does and requires the same sort of paperwork for a temporary or permanent closure.

I do wonder if it would help to change how paths are marked on maps, though, to make the physical paths more prominent on the map than the rights of way, and to mark more key physical paths on Landranger maps.

* MK Parks Trust being the biggest pain over this, requiring submission of a risk assessment in advance and payment of a fee (nominal if nonprofit) for organised groups of any size, though it's widely ignored. National Trust at least have a number above which this applies, I forget what it is though, might be 20 or 30.

 

[styles]

There was a proposal to remove the public rights of way from OS maps where there is no physical path and where it is access land in England/Wales, but fortunately that didn't go through. I say fortunately because access land does not convey the same rights as a PRoW - in particular that access land is easier to close (and was closed in some parts of the Peak at the height of the wildfire crisis) and that access land can carry other rules such as regarding use with groups*, whereas a public right of way offers the absolute right to "pass and repass" the same as a road does and requires the same sort of paperwork for a temporary or permanent closure.

Yep, there's a PRoW footpath I use which doesn't have any real visible footpath on the ground. I had to contact the council's rights of way officer to get the landowner to clear it the first time I used it and apparently the landowner wasn't even aware it existed. Since it was cleared, a number of people in the village use it, mainly dog walkers. Use it or lose it, as they say.

I do wonder if it would help to change how paths are marked on maps, though, to make the physical paths more prominent on the map than the rights of way, and to mark more key physical paths on Landranger maps.

Yeah I'd agree with that. It seems like the PRoW were just added as an overlay. At the same time, I suppose OS would argue that outside of access land, they don't want to be seen to be encouraging use of footpaths etc which aren't PRoWs?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yep, there's a PRoW footpath I use which doesn't have any real visible footpath on the ground. I had to contact the council's rights of way officer to get the landowner to clear it the first time I used it and apparently the landowner wasn't even aware it existed. Since it was cleared, a number of people in the village use it, mainly dog walkers. Use it or lose it, as they say.

There's one near me too, but as it's near enough paralleled by a Redway its purpose is a bit moot. Though I'm sure someone would have fun ensuring it became available again using a decent set of tree loppers!

 

[styles]

There's one near me too, but as it's near enough paralleled by a Redway its purpose is a bit moot. Though I'm sure someone would have fun ensuring it became available again using a decent set of tree loppers!

My favourite are the PRoWs not marked on the definitive map, which means they don't appear on OS maps either. The Ramblers had a campaign to save some of them because the government was trying to set a deadline for applying to retain them else they'd be ditched. Some of them are fun.

Like this one which allows you to just walk along the verge of the A55:


Or this one, which crosses a 'special road' on which pedestrians are prohibited by legislation:

 

[paninaro]

Worth mentioning that many people prefer Harveys mountain maps for clearer rendering of paths (and none of the stuff like adminstrative boundaries cluttering up the map that OS Maps have to show). They can take some getting used to though

 

[Bletchleyite]

Worth mentioning that many people prefer Harveys mountain maps for clearer rendering of paths (and none of the stuff like adminstrative boundaries cluttering up the map that OS Maps have to show). They can take some getting used to though

I have a set of Ultramaps which I bought out of interest (nice and cheap, compact and waterproof) but I'm not really a fan. I find the contours so dark that it's hard to pick out other features, and this level of scale doesn't show stuff like field boundaries which can be very useful when using a "handrailing" technique in poor visibility, though I think the 1:25K version might have them and to be fair the OS 1:50K version doesn't.

They are handy to carry as a backup when primarily navigating using a phone though.

OS 1:25K is by far my preference.

 

[Sasomida]

Field boundaries appear on OS 1:25K maps, but never on 1:50K maps. Having compared to the equivalent for US and several European countries, the maps you get (got) from OS are so much better, having Harveys as well is just greedy

 

[styles]

Harveys 1:40k maps are my go-to for mountaineering. The ideal balance of scale, plus their waterproof paper maps are stacks better than OS Active or Tuffmaps. Easily folded into a custom area and stuck in my jacket pocket

Field boundaries appear on OS 1:25K maps, but never on 1:50K maps. Having compared to the equivalent for US and several European countries, the maps you get (got) from OS are so much better, having Harveys as well is just greedy

They do appear on OS 1:50k maps in some places, e.g. this forest boundary fence:


It's up to the cartographer to determine whether to add them, given the scale and purpose of the map.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Harveys 1:40k maps are my go-to for mountaineering. The ideal balance of scale, plus their waterproof paper maps are stacks better than OS Active or Tuffmaps. Easily folded into a custom area and stuck in my jacket pocket

But the lack of detail I find makes them much harder to use, unless you're really quite good at contouring. Maybe you are, but I find field boundaries on maps really useful.

 

[The exile]

My favourite are the PRoWs not marked on the definitive map, which means they don't appear on OS maps either. The Ramblers had a campaign to save some of them because the government was trying to set a deadline for applying to retain them else they'd be ditched. Some of them are fun.

Like this one which allows you to just walk along the verge of the A55:

View attachment 212018
Or this one, which crosses a 'special road' on which pedestrians are prohibited by legislation:
View attachment 212022

During a lockdown ramble I found the legal notices for the diversion of the river Avon towpath between Newbridge and Saltford which unlike many such, was a right of way. Problem was that when the river was realigned in the early 1970s no one thought about the RoW along its bank, so officially, for about 50 years the route of the RoW went variously through the middle of the field, crossed the river at least twice and ran along the middle the river for a bit. Needless to say, reason had prevailed for those 50 years and I doubt there weee any objections to the rerouting.

 

[styles]

But the lack of detail I find makes them much harder to use, unless you're really quite good at contouring. Maybe you are, but I find field boundaries on maps really useful.

I think with where I live they make a lot more sense and there's not as many field boundaries (plus we have the right to cross them anyway so usually gates aren't padlocked etc) When you're up on many of the hills, they're largely open areas with not much 'infrastructure' or furniture.

I find 1:25k ideal for low-level walks where that sort of detail comes in handy, but for many of those walks I just print the sections off OS Maps online, map case, in my bag as a backup to using a phone.

 

[Sasomida]

They do appear on OS 1:50k maps in some places, e.g. this forest boundary fence:

I take that more as a boundary between the woodland and the not-woodland, which would exist whether there is a physical fence/wall/etc there or not. It is not itself an indicator of a physical boundary.

I find the field boundaries useful in hill-walking, as you can be confident which side of the hedge/wall the path goes, meaning you won't be scrambling through something to get back to the path further on. It helps a lot with route-finding and since they appear on the walkers maps (no-one should really be using the 1-50K maps when route-finding matters on a walk), the OS got this decision right.

 

[IlkleyRunner]

That's really useful to know. The lack of marked footpaths on OS maps in Scotland is more than a little bit of a nuisance, and Strava heatmaps only do so much.

I'm well aware that the public footpath situation differs from England and Wales (i.e. that you don't need to worry about them), but the lack of marked black dotted paths (physical paths) is an annoyance as it makes it really hard to work out where might be decent to walk without some sort of additional guide. In England/Wales it's rarely like Scotland other than for some reason Moel Siabod!

The other place to look for the equivalent of PROWs in Scotland are to look up the core paths. These are monitored by the councils in the same way as PROWs. NatureScot has a page which lets you access all the relevant council sites without hunting around. Not exactly immediate in the sense of a paper map but they are there (and if you really want the details there is a publically available shapefile/geopackage for the whole lot).

 

[AndrewE]

I find the field boundaries useful in hill-walking, as you can be confident which side of the hedge/wall the path goes, meaning you won't be scrambling through something to get back to the path further on. It helps a lot with route-finding and since they appear on the walkers maps (no-one should really be using the 1-50K maps when route-finding matters on a walk), the OS got this decision right.

I agree with this, except... Until about 5 years ago I would have bet my life on where to walk, i.e. which side of a wall or hedge the 1:2500 OS map showed a right of way. Since then I have read various disclaimers and people have pointed out places where the maps aren't quite correct! Have to admit that most times the errors we find are of our own map-reading though!

 

[Sasomida]

I confess that although the OS maps are the best I have come across visually, I am finding OpenStreetMap increasingly more reliable on the moors in England, as it shows almost all of the actual paths, whilst most of these are missing from OS. Some areas have so few ROWs, that knowing where paths do exist is extremely useful for route planning.

I used this for Fort William to identify possible routes for walking across the moors to Corrour, before someone reminded me that midges exist.

 

[Bald Rick]

WalkHighlands definitely sounds like the place to go to pick walking routes. Avoiding midge central would probably be sensible, since I'd probably regret planning as if there isn't a midge issue.

I used this for Fort William to identify possible routes for walking across the moors to Corrour, before someone reminded me that midges exist.

If you’re going this time of year, anywhere from Ft Bill to Corrour will be full of midges. Pray for gales!