Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't disagree, but if people like their local station they'll vote for it in any contest type thing.
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Birmingham New Street the worst UK station?
- Thread starter SLC001
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I don't disagree, but if people like their local station they'll vote for it in any contest type thing.
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I was wondering about this Teutonic numbering system, so had a bit of a search.
Munich (looks to be 3 stations in 1): platforms 1-17
Hamburg: platforms 1-14
Mannheim: platforms 1-12
Hamburg and Mannheim are missing some numbers in the middle for unplatformed tracks.
Imagine my disappointment at how British it seems.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
What I've never seen in Germany is two numbers on a platform face. Indeed, the numbers are *track* numbers so you get gaps as well as that - if you look at Euston for example the tracks between some of the platforms would get numbers, or say in Crewe 5 and 6 would be 5 and 8 because the through lines would be 6 and 7.
The silly numbers are usually where you have very split stations. The triangular station at Shipley would probably be 1, 2, 101, 102 and 201, 202 for instance, similar for Earlestown. Or in Switzerland, Brig station itself is normally numbered (I forget what the tram-like Matterhorn Gotthard Bahn station is numbered as now) but the Motorail platform is I think 401. I recall Lausanne also has one of the bays numbered something like that.
Yes, and this is also silly.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I get why they do it - it keeps the signalling simple. But like the clockwise numbering at Waverley it's something that feels like the system, not the passenger, is at the foremost when designing it.
I don't mind the concourse outside of the through platforms (which are grim), but I quite like old stations. For example, I am a great fan of Chester.
xotGD
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2017
- Messages
- 7,911
The gents at Man Vic has recently been refurbished. Much better. However, anyone heading to the ladies, should they glance to the right, gets a view of the reflected backs of a row of blokes at the urinal from the mirror above the wash basins.
As long as it's only their backs...
Straus
Member
Waiting for a delayed train to Manchester Piccadilly today (the 1601)
Delayed to 1621 - no information at all on the screens relating to the Manchester train & poor phone signal down there + no available staff made for a nervy wait, at 1622 an announcement was made of a platform alternation from 5 to 2! Many people struggling up the (non moving) escalator because they were worried the lifts would make them miss the train.
They needn't have worried in the end as a fire alarm in the signal box led to an evacuation from the train to the main concourse.
Thankfully resolved relatively quickly and back on our way with under an hours delay.
Delayed to 1621 - no information at all on the screens relating to the Manchester train & poor phone signal down there + no available staff made for a nervy wait, at 1622 an announcement was made of a platform alternation from 5 to 2! Many people struggling up the (non moving) escalator because they were worried the lifts would make them miss the train.
They needn't have worried in the end as a fire alarm in the signal box led to an evacuation from the train to the main concourse.
Thankfully resolved relatively quickly and back on our way with under an hours delay.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Whilst it is obviously frustrating when disruption occurs I’m not clear why passengers were on ‘the platform’ when there had been ‘nothing on the screen’. Surely the whole point of the much misunderstood Lounges/Zones is that passengers can wait in comfort with the added bonus of better phone signals and better chance of finding staff. And finally, it avoids a rush back up to the concourse level in the event of a late platform change.
Had you been misled by a non-industry app or website by any chance?
Really, victim blaming is rarely a good look. What do you mean by "industry" out of interest?
Dr Hoo
Established Member
I would count the train operator (? CrossCountry for Birmingham-Manchester) or National Rail to be “industry” in this case.
Put it this way, l was at Barking when there was disruption a couple of weeks ago because of a lineside fire around Limehouse. Information was coming out via the information boards, announcements and apps - both C2C and National Rail. None of them were consistent. Worse still none of them appeared, for far too long, to actually match the facts on the ground. Why exactly should l trust "industry" output and wait out of sight of where my train is actually likely to be?
Dr Hoo
Established Member
I think that you are assuming a lot from the wider public as ‘people’. The idea that most passengers are ‘competing to be one of the first to board’ explains a lot of the unhelpful rudeness of passengers preventing people from alighting, barging on with bikes and buggies, standing in front of the yellow lines, etc..
I am a regular user of the ‘lounge’ for Manchester Piccadilly platforms 13 & 14 and the three statuses of ‘wait’, ‘be ready’, and ‘boarding’ (or suchlike; I go by the colours) seem to work very well, out of sight of the trains.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
It is always helpful to know where the industry - increasingly just GBR in future - has work to do as distinct from ‘independent’ sources.
Whether that work is in station design, maintenance of equipment or support systems can vary.
Straus
Member
No, the screens I'm referring to are the small information screens at platform level, the screens on the upper concourse stated platform 5, but none of the screens on platform 5 contained anything about the Manchester train.
People were on the platform because it was 16.22 and the delayed service was indicated as expected at 16.21 on the concourse screens.
The delay itself wasn't the frustration, it was the combination of:
No information at platform level
Very very difficult to hear announcements
Non operational escalators to change platform
That's just how passengers behave. This behaviour is exacerbated because many services are very busy and seat reservations are often not respected. People in general will just always choose to wait somewhere they can see their train instead of in a largely featureless penalty box area in a shopping centre.
How many people use the "lounge" at Piccadilly P13/14? I wager not many as a proportion of people using that platform.
zwk500
Veteran Member
This certainly matches with my experience - and not just at Stations. See queuing traffic on roads, or even waiting for shops/cafes to open.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Perhaps the original concept of the lounge system has been lost in the execution.
For instance, take the Red lounge. It was presumably planned in the days of Virgin West Coast so the colour was appropriate. The original idea might have been that all Virgin WC services would leave from Platforms 1 to 5. The First Class Lounge was positioned suitably.
A similar allocation would be a lounge for all Cross Country services, and a third for Birmingham commuter ones.
That makes sense, but was sabotaged by the operators who decided that it was, for instance, impossible to have Virgin/Avanti WC services leave only from Platforms 1-5.
A particular oddity is, if you are in the Avanti lounge on Platforms 1-5 and your train departs from Platform 6 or 7, the entrance to those platforms is just behind a glass screen that prevents you accessing them. The '6' sign at the top of the escalator is very close behind that glass screen. You either have to go a circuitous route to the right dateline, or go against the flow to the 'B' end footbridge and back again. There are three lounges but only one through walk way, so it would seem to have been possible to only have two lounges, if that's the reason.
For instance, take the Red lounge. It was presumably planned in the days of Virgin West Coast so the colour was appropriate. The original idea might have been that all Virgin WC services would leave from Platforms 1 to 5. The First Class Lounge was positioned suitably.
A similar allocation would be a lounge for all Cross Country services, and a third for Birmingham commuter ones.
That makes sense, but was sabotaged by the operators who decided that it was, for instance, impossible to have Virgin/Avanti WC services leave only from Platforms 1-5.
A particular oddity is, if you are in the Avanti lounge on Platforms 1-5 and your train departs from Platform 6 or 7, the entrance to those platforms is just behind a glass screen that prevents you accessing them. The '6' sign at the top of the escalator is very close behind that glass screen. You either have to go a circuitous route to the right dateline, or go against the flow to the 'B' end footbridge and back again. There are three lounges but only one through walk way, so it would seem to have been possible to only have two lounges, if that's the reason.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Thank you. So we have established that the root cause was a glitch in the information system - showing ‘5’ when it was liable to alter. Not strictly related to station design and can presumably can happen at other stations.
Being unable to hear announcements at platform level (typically because of the throb of engines on nearby platforms and the wail of the ventilation system) is another reason to stay in a lounge until it is certain that the correct platform is shown.
I certainly agree that defective escalators are a nuisance at New Street!
It can depend on the weather but I find that the Piccadilly lounge is quite popular and that includes the ‘overflow’ seating along the footbridge. Arriving back in the evening peak it is often so full that it’s quite a push to squeeze through towards other parts of the station. This seems to be more so now that there are two refreshment outlets as well as the toilets.
Sadly true; and then we wonder why there’s a mental health crisis.
Even if this was the original idea, it would never have been workable.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The fans are a big issue, but they would barely ever be used if we got rid of stinking Voyagers. Classes 170, 172 and 196/197 don't kick out anywhere near as much filth being shorter and in the latter case much newer and compliant to better emissions standards.
It's almost like a very significant part of the problem with New St and the wider rail network is Voyagers, and that scrapping them in favour of longer bi-mode units would solve a LOT of problems.
zwk500
Veteran Member
The Red Lounge has access to all platforms, but the Avanti first class lounge is in the Blue lounge.
Red, Blue and Green are the 3 primary colours, I wouldn't read too much into the use of Red being linked to Virgin WC. In the same way the 'Green' lounge (P7-12 'A' end, so lots of XC and WMT Diesels) isn't linked to having a greater proportion of electrically-worked services.
It would make sense for the Avanti lounge to have a door to the unpaid side, as only 1st class ticket holders are supposed to use the lounge and it's closed when not staffed. Although I think that requires taking out 1 or the other of the pair of retail units.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Sorry, relying on my memory for colours and assuming logic, clearly unwise. I now remember having to ask which colour 'lounge' the Avanti lounge was.
Is it the New Street Avanti lounge that has permanently - locked glass doors on one side? If so, possibly the original intention was what you suggest.
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Another snag with waiting on the platform concerns the departure screens on each platform (not the rolling all platforms one)
Problem 1 is when there is a platform alteration - the train just disappears. One then has to wait for the nearest rolling screen display to show page 1 with the further complication that if one's train is late it has already disappeared altogether from the rolling screens, which rely on booked time for deletions.
Problem 2 is when the train one is waiting for is followed by another after a shoer time interval. If one's own train is late (eg XC to the South west, situation normal) the 'expected' time of train 1 is then after the - on-time - expected departure of train 2. But no operator seems to have noticed.
//
I've noticed that relief train crew do not adhere to the lounge rules either but wait on the platform. Handy, though in problem situation 2 when you spot an anxious-looking XC driver and keep an eye out for a sudden dash.
zwk500
Veteran Member
This (rather old) Google Street view image suggests so, and that you wouldn't even need to remove the retail units: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fUEzjKcgxqaQdQ7z5
Although these doors could have always been planned as a fire exit, rather than any intention to allow direct access ordinarily.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There aren't any "lounge rules", you can go where you want. It isn't Euston.
The system is designed for the best passenger experience if you don't wait on the platform, that's all.
Straus
Member
What about for services with a short dwell time? The lifts are painfully slow and the escalators often out of order - struggling with luggage until the train is at the platform means you're at risk of missing your train - or on services with more coaches, end up a considerable distance from your booked seat.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
We're getting a bit "Standard Minority" here. Obviously you go down to platform level a sufficient time beforehand that you judge will minimise stress. If you know you'll need to use the lift this is going to be sooner.
Have you used the station?
I think those are fire exits. There can only be one admittance desk to the lounge so having two entrances to a lounge will always be problematic.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
First class lounge use there will always be a minority pursuit anyway. The service to London is frequent so most people just won't bother with it.