Birmingham New Street the worst UK station?

[zwk500]

me neither, but I was talking about Birmingham new st (BHM) not Barnes (BNS)

CRS codes are not the only way to shorten a station name.
In this context, the acronym/initilaism was clear enough.

 

[xotGD]

the bridge provides no material advantage

Yes it does.

It offers the quickest route towards the Mailbox. That's my usual destination when I visit Birmingham, so it is the route I take.

It also offers a route to other platforms avoiding congestion, albeit with a bit of extra walking.

 

[172007]

CRS codes are not the only way to shorten a station name.
In this context, the acronym/initilaism was clear enough.

BNS is not clear and causes confusion.

National Rail Enq, Realtime Trains to name a few places all allow CRS codes and will clearly bring up Barnes rather than New Street. As rail enthusuasts on this site genrally we should be proud to get things technically right.

 

[The Planner]

Several people have mentioned this bridge but to be quite clear its fundamental purpose is as an Emergency Exit for all platforms that is structurally independent from the main structure. Bearing in mind that this thread started with a passenger in urgent need of access to a toilet (but unfortunately went very near to some in a Lounge whilst following a crowd to the barriers and also being concerned about finding a litter bin) it is particularly unhelpful that the bridge has no facilities whatsoever. There are no escalators and no lifts either.

The bridge was part of the response to the King’s Cross Underground fire because New Street was categorised as ‘sub surface’. It was only marginally altered as part of the latest rebuild, primarily to tie it in with new external stairs and ramp to Hill Street and Station Street. At the Navigation Street end the Emergency Bridge exit is practically adjacent to the main station exit towards Stephenson Place and the Metro stop. This continues round and merges with an exit from Grand Central itself, down from the upper level.

Apart from appealing to the somewhat small demographic who never want to sit down, never need a toilet, are completely fit, have no significant luggage and are allergic to passing any refreshment facility or shop, the bridge provides no material advantage. Unless there is an emergency evacuation, of course.

Small? You should see its use in rush hour!

 

[The exile]

Ah, okay, that is actually pretty good. I'm guessing it's new or just I've never noticed it!

Although what might be helpful is putting what exit to use for each of those so that they can follow the normal wayfinding signs as I imagine there is just one of these that is pointing in the general direction of the exit, but with the amount of obstacles in the way it can often be quite easy to start heading in a slightly different direction.

It would also help if it were in standard station signage format - I think I’d look at that from a distance and assume it was “art”.

 

[Wolfie]

It would also help if it were in standard station signage format - I think I’d look at that from a distance and assume it was “art”.

Looking where that is, namely non-barrier side near to Ozzy the Bull, it's an interesting question whether it was provided by Network Rail or Grand Central. The latter, of course, have zero obligation to use "standard station signage format" and indeed may actually have good reasons not too. Not only rail passengers use that space.

 

[zwk500]

BNS is not clear and causes confusion.

In the context of 11 pages of discussion about Birmingham New Street, it was perfectly clear.

National Rail Enq, Realtime Trains to name a few places all allow CRS codes and will clearly bring up Barnes rather than New Street.

This discussion was not about people trying to search for the station.

As rail enthusuasts on this site genrally we should be proud to get things technically right.

This attitude is generally quite irritating anyway because often people get things wrong while insisting they are correct, but even more irritating when it's misplaced because there is not a single 'technically' correct answer. CRS codes exist for journey planning purposes, they are not the sole method of referring to a station.

As an example, Network Rail timetable planning had or have a Birmingham New Street station timetable planning mini-team. When I interacted with them, that team did not use the CRS Code BHM on their materials, nor did it use the TIPLOC (BHAMNWS) or Stanox (65630), but instead BNS. They may have changed things now, it's been a while since I worked with them.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Small? You should see its use in rush hour!

Fair comment, but this thread has fundamentally about first-time or occasional users who haven’t got the station ‘sussed’ yet. (Rather than commuters who happen to work in offices that are on the Mailbox side.)

 

[bramling]

London Bridge isn't the same concept - it just has platform specific barrier lines - though I'm interested to hear people who don't like it! I've always thought it was actually the best station refurb of the post 1994 era, with Reading a close second.

I don’t really see a lot wrong with London Bridge. I’m not overly keen on the very long walk from the Underground, however I understand that was pretty much essential in order to be able to fit in all the extra capacity. My biggest dislike at London Bridge is the platform canopies are highly ineffective.

New Street on the other hand I feel is a complete mess. When I was meeting someone where last year the person I was meeting couldn’t even find the station from the street, such is the way the shopping centre seems to take precedence over the station.

I know the whole site is completely constrained by what was done in the 1960s, in a perfect world we’d be removing pretty much everything above platform level and starting again. Even so, the latest works seem to prioritise retail over passenger needs.

I’m very surprised at the comment made elsewhere that New Street is preferable to use than Manchester Piccadilly. Apart from the through platforms which are awful, Piccadilly feels like almost a perfect station to me, and ISTR from somewhere (though may be misremembering) that it has quite high levels of satisfaction recorded from user surveys.

 

[Dr Hoo]

New Street on the other hand I feel is a complete mess. When I was meeting someone where last year the person I was meeting couldn’t even find the station from the street, such is the way the shopping centre seems to take precedence over the station.

Given that the new station is renowned for its unusual reflective stainless steel cladding in most directions I’d be very interested to learn from which street the person coming to meet you was approaching from.

To be quite clear, there are more entrances from different directions than before and they all lead one to the central concourse (all thanks to the ingenious Zone system that opens up the through routes).

Furthermore, there is actually less retail in what is now Grand Central than there was in the old Palisades - fairly obvious from the huge atrium that’s been cut out of the middle.

 

[Djgr]

I don’t really see a lot wrong with London Bridge. I’m not overly keen on the very long walk from the Underground, however I understand that was pretty much essential in order to be able to fit in all the extra capacity. My biggest dislike at London Bridge is the platform canopies are highly ineffective.

New Street on the other hand I feel is a complete mess. When I was meeting someone where last year the person I was meeting couldn’t even find the station from the street, such is the way the shopping centre seems to take precedence over the station.

I know the whole site is completely constrained by what was done in the 1960s, in a perfect world we’d be removing pretty much everything above platform level and starting again. Even so, the latest works seem to prioritise retail over passenger needs.

I’m very surprised at the comment made elsewhere that New Street is preferable to use than Manchester Piccadilly. Apart from the through platforms which are awful, Piccadilly feels like almost a perfect station to me, and ISTR from somewhere (though may be misremembering) that it has quite high levels of satisfaction recorded from user surveys.

It's just that the through platforms get a right hammering with passenger throughput, meaning that they are hardly incidental to the overall station rating.

 

[zwk500]

Given that the new station is renowned for its unusual reflective stainless steel cladding in most directions I’d be very interested to learn from which street the person coming to meet you was approaching from.

If you approach the station from Birmingham city centre side then it is actually remarkably hidden behind the other buildings. The entrance from Corporation street also leads you up to the Grand Central level and youd have to go down the ramp which is quite narrow next to the tram tracks to get to the station entrance.

I normally approach from Temple Row and again it feels like a back exit to the station rather than a main route from a major station to the centre of the 2nd largest city in the land.

From other entrances its more visible but I can quite easily believe that people would struggle to identify the station if standing on New Street itself, especially if they did not realise Grand Central is the same building.

 

[JamesT]

In 2018 Transport Focus did a survey of customer satisfaction with train stations and New Street came third top. Which seems a little surprising if it’s the ‘worst’ as per this thread. Has there been a more recent version of this survey?

 

[py_megapixel]

From other entrances its more visible but I can quite easily believe that people would struggle to identify the station if standing on New Street itself, especially if they did not realise Grand Central is the same building.

Is it the only station to be named after a street thst you can't even see the entrance from?

It is certainly a confusing state of affairs for someone unfamiliar with the area.

 

[Dr Hoo]

If you approach the station from Birmingham city centre side then it is actually remarkably hidden behind the other buildings. The entrance from Corporation street also leads you up to the Grand Central level and youd have to go down the ramp which is quite narrow next to the tram tracks to get to the station entrance.

I normally approach from Temple Row and again it feels like a back exit to the station rather than a main route from a major station to the centre of the 2nd largest city in the land.

From other entrances its more visible but I can quite easily believe that people would struggle to identify the station if standing on New Street itself, especially if they did not realise Grand Central is the same building.

Fair enough but I think that you are describing a common problem within city centres. Some, like Sheffield, can be quite conspicuous but then it comes with a very busy road to cross and loads of beggars in the plaza.

Glasgow Central can be invisible from one parallel street away; Leeds hides behind the Queens Hotel from many angles, Victoria is a bit tucked away, as is Southampton; and so on.

Unless both parties to a rendezvous are complete novices it should be easy to provide some clues, such as “follow the tram tracks down to the Grand Central stop” or “it’s opposite the Bull Ring, a big shiny building”.

Let alone that most people carry a mobile device that can provide mapping and direction instructions.

 

[bramling]

Dissenting voice, and evidently a minority view, but I like it. Much more preferable than Leeds, Man Piccadilly, Reading, Clapham Jn, or Stratford, as stations of comparable size. Thinking about it, I prefer it over Waverley. (I rarely use Bristol TM so can‘t compare).

(I may have said this before upthread; if so I’m saying it again! Does anyone really think Clapham Jn or Stratford are better stations?)

What is really wrong with Clapham Junction apart from that it gets very crowded at certain times? At least there’s daylight and reasonably wide stairways, and the route from one part to another is entirely logical.

Stratford is a total dump IMO, wasn’t great going back to the 90s but has then grown in a completely haphazard fashion, and not really helped by having suddenly become busier as a result of Westfield.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Saturday at 12:15 ==

but that has been achieved! New Street is millions of times better than it was.

I’m not entirely sure on that. So before you’d enter the station through the concourse, then use the bridge to reach your platform. Similar if changing trains.

Now it’s several orders of magnitude more awkward, albeit that it does offer more space to be physically able to handle greater numbers.

It wasn’t and isn’t great in either form, but having used it both before and after I think I found it easier before.

I guess it feels less 1960s now.

 

[Wolfie]

I’m not entirely sure on that. So before you’d enter the station through the concourse, then use the bridge to reach your platform. Similar if changing trains.

Now it’s several orders of magnitude more awkward, albeit that it does offer more space to be physically able to handle greater numbers.

It wasn’t and isn’t great in either form, but having used it both before and after I think I found it easier before.

I guess it feels less 1960s now.

It's a whole lot more accessible now. Many more lifts etc.

 

[bramling]

Fair enough but I think that you are describing a common problem within city centres. Some, like Sheffield, can be quite conspicuous but then it comes with a very busy road to cross and loads of beggars in the plaza.

Glasgow Central can be invisible from one parallel street away; Leeds hides behind the Queens Hotel from many angles, Victoria is a bit tucked away, as is Southampton; and so on.

Unless both parties to a rendezvous are complete novices it should be easy to provide some clues, such as “follow the tram tracks down to the Grand Central stop” or “it’s opposite the Bull Ring, a big shiny building”.

Let alone that most people carry a mobile device that can provide mapping and direction instructions.

Interesting you mentioned Southampton, was there last year and was shocked at how run-down the immediate area around Southampton Central station felt. Really poor for quite a major city.

New Street does at least feel smarter outside now, for the most part anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Saturday at 12:21 ==

Given that the new station is renowned for its unusual reflective stainless steel cladding in most directions I’d be very interested to learn from which street the person coming to meet you was approaching from.

Snow Hill direction I think.

Furthermore, there is actually less retail in what is now Grand Central than there was in the old Palisades - fairly obvious from the huge atrium that’s been cut out of the middle.

Maybe a lot of this could be resolved with better signage, however if a city’s main railway station is being mistaken for a shopping precinct then clearly something is amiss.

 

[Vexed]

Interesting you mentioned Southampton, was there last year and was shocked at how run-down the immediate area around Southampton Central station felt. Really poor for quite a major city.

I think the north side is okay, but on the south the main walking route goes through the old Toys R Us which had been left to rot (the car park is open as one of the cheapest in the city centre but hasn't had work done to it).

For north side visibility a nice big sign on the office block above the station (Overline House) would help.

 

[styles]

In 2018 Transport Focus did a survey of customer satisfaction with train stations and New Street came third top. Which seems a little surprising if it’s the ‘worst’ as per this thread. Has there been a more recent version of this survey?

From the survey:

Results are based on the 56 stations where at least 100 people responded.

There's over 2600 railway stations in the UK. This survey methodology, while logical, has meant it's self-selected only a few dozen stations to rank.

The other thing to note is the percentage results:

1. London Kings Cross	96%
2. London St Pancras	95%
3. Birmingham New Street	92%
4. Reading	92%
5. London Marylebone	91%
6. Liverpool Central	91%
7. Beaconsfield	91%
8. Sheffield	91%
9. Manchester Piccadilly	91%
10. Glasgow Central	91%

There's barely anything in it between those except maybe the top two.

Basically it's ranked high, along with at least half a dozen other stations, because a lot of people who responded to the survey use the station. I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Sprinter107]

I will say, and I might be offering a hot take here, but I firmly believe Birmingham New Street is easier to navigate than Edinburgh Waverley.

Agreed. I got confused at Edinburgh Waverley last week.

 

[Djgr]

Agreed. I got confused at Edinburgh Waverley last week.

Of course Edinburgh has the advantage of uplifting the soul when you do get to depart the station.

 

[Dr Hoo]

New Street on the other hand I feel is a complete mess. When I was meeting someone where last year the person I was meeting couldn’t even find the station from the street, such is the way the shopping centre seems to take precedence over the station.

Given that we have since established that the person was coming from Snow Hill, the most logical route is an almost ‘bee line’ from the plaza in front of Snow Hill Station, across the Cathedral churchyard (aka Pigeon Park) to the top of Temple Street, down to New Street (the street) and straight ahead again into Lower Temple Street. The entrance to New Street Station is literally at the bottom of this short pedestrianised street, on the far side of Stephenson Place. You can see the doors whilst standing at the New Street crossing!

I really don’t know what more The Railway can do to help some people.

 

[alxndr]

They’re not alone though. The time I struggled to find the entrance I was coming from Snow Hill, albeit probably not by the usual route as I was largely just wandering aimlessly while killing time as I had a long interchange at New Street and thought I might as well pay a visit to another station. I think I walked along the Queensway to Newhall Street and then found myself halfway along Navigation Street.

In hindsight it appears that if I’d turned left I would have found an entrance but I ended up circling the building anti-clockwise until I found another entrance. It was quite frustrating being able to see the station but not a way in as my long wait was rapidly dwindling away.

 

[WillC]

In 2018 Transport Focus did a survey of customer satisfaction with train stations and New Street came third top. Which seems a little surprising if it’s the ‘worst’ as per this thread. Has there been a more recent version of this survey?

What was the survey? Of regular users getting on/off there, or poor fools who might need to change trains once in a while?

 

[317 forever]

The segregation into different zones make it hard to reach some platforms from others.

On the face of it, the best thing about Birmingham New Street is the number of trains and places we can get to directly for a swift getaway. Mind you, even this is marred by how many such places depend on Cross Country

 

[edwin_m]

From the survey:



There's over 2600 railway stations in the UK. This survey methodology, while logical, has meant it's self-selected only a few dozen stations to rank.

The other thing to note is the percentage results:

1. London Kings Cross	96%
2. London St Pancras	95%
3. Birmingham New Street	92%
4. Reading	92%
5. London Marylebone	91%
6. Liverpool Central	91%
7. Beaconsfield	91%
8. Sheffield	91%
9. Manchester Piccadilly	91%
10. Glasgow Central	91%

There's barely anything in it between those except maybe the top two.

Basically it's ranked high, along with at least half a dozen other stations, because a lot of people who responded to the survey use the station. I wouldn't read too much into it.

However, to address the question in the thread title, it does indicate that at least 53 stations are considered to be worse than New Street.

 

[AlterEgo]

In 2018 Transport Focus did a survey of customer satisfaction with train stations and New Street came third top. Which seems a little surprising if it’s the ‘worst’ as per this thread. Has there been a more recent version of this survey?

I'd take that survey with a pinch of salt. Liverpool Central was sixth.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'd take that survey with a pinch of salt. Liverpool Central was sixth.

Liverpool Central is a deep underground station, and a bit of a dated-feeling one at that, but it's easy to navigate and the wayfinding is good, aided by Merseyrail's nice simple service pattern. It's very well located for (as the name suggests) central Liverpool. There are decent facilities including toilets and nearby shops. Other than the general dinginess I really struggle to find any major fault with it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Liverpool Central is a deep underground station, and a bit of a dated-feeling one at that, but it's easy to navigate and the wayfinding is good, aided by Merseyrail's nice simple service pattern. It's very well located for (as the name suggests) central Liverpool. There are decent facilities including toilets and nearby shops. Other than the general dinginess I really struggle to find fault with it.

It's not the sixth best station in the country.

Also worth noting the methodology only includes people using the station and not those who have actively chosen to avoid it because they find it problematic. That methodology has now been superseded by rolling surveys on board trains.

A significant portion of New Street's passengers can choose to change elsewhere, such as at Wolverhampton, Birmingham International or Coventry, or by taking a wholly different route if travelling on some southwest to the north/Scotland itineraries.