Rail tickets in Apple Wallet with custom passes in iOS 27

[davp]

And the weakness is that gates correctly reject them and gateline staff just look at the details and let people through, rather than using a scanner to find out why it was rejected.

So when I buy my Freedom of the North West Rover and scan the Aztec code to create my user created pass similar to post 19, this is going to be fine if someone scans it, but if they visually inspect it at a gateline I would suggest they should be suspicious, especially if they don't intend to scan it.

I'm not going to travel without the original PRT but where would I stand if I did? Do I have a valid ticket because I have a valid Aztec code on my device?

 

[Haywain]

I'm not going to travel without the original PRT but where would I stand if I did? Do I have a valid ticket because I have a valid Aztec code on my device?

In my opinion, if you are unable to show the full ticket details in human readable form, then you do not have a valid ticket. The fact that most of the time scanning a barcode is sufficient doesn't mean that you can assume that only having the barcode is sufficient.

 

[davp]

In my opinion, if you are unable to show the full ticket details in human readable form, then you do not have a valid ticket. The fact that most of the time scanning a barcode is sufficient doesn't mean that you can assume that only having the barcode is sufficient.

I agree with you, however I could add all of the human readable details in the ticket in post 19 to the pass - I just didn't do this to demonstrate it. At that point do I have a valid ticket? And if I do, what is materially different to my just taking a photo of the PRT and presenting that?

The NRCoT lists examples of tickets including "a mobile telephone or tablet device that is charged and available for display or checking". It doesn't prohibit using a copy of a ticket (or I cannot see where it does). I can see people adding their PRT tickets to their Apple Wallets on the basis that Apple say it is designed for physical cards with a barcode but no available digital pass.

As the OP says we may be waiting for the first Disputes & Prosecutions thread about this (it won't be from me).

 

[mmh]

I can see people adding their PRT tickets to their Apple Wallets on the basis that Apple say it is designed for physical cards with a barcode but no available digital pass.

Where it will look exactly the same as a ticket added from a PDF scan, or a screenshot.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'd say that if you have a barcode in a wallet but the rest of the ticket doesn't look like a normal ticket format you should expect to have problems

 

[OscarH]

Where it will look exactly the same as a ticket added from a PDF scan, or a screenshot.

Although it's worth noting the ticket PDFs and wallet passes can vary quite dramatically between producers

I'd say that if you have a barcode in a wallet but the rest of the ticket doesn't look like a normal ticket format you should expect to have problems

Agreed (I don't think it's right you should have problems, but that's the reality)

And the weakness is that gates correctly reject them and gateline staff just look at the details and let people through, rather than using a scanner to find out why it was rejected.

Absolutely. And the fact the gates reject to many valid tickets spuriously doesn't help this either, as the staff don't treat it as an abnormal event

I will also say there are bad issues with the gates picking up cancellations, but obviously specifics wouldn't be appropriate for a public forum.

 

[Adam Williams]

And the weakness is that gates correctly reject them and gateline staff just look at the details and let people through, rather than using a scanner to find out why it was rejected.

You can't solve a people problem with technology though.

I think part of the problem here is that gateline staff aren't paid anywhere near what someone appropriately familiar with fares should be paid. You get an approach to checking tickets in line with that.

I'd rather they err'd on the side of accepting too many tickets, though, than the alternative.

 

[davp]

Although it's worth noting the ticket PDFs and wallet passes can vary quite dramatically between producers

I was paying attention to this for the first time travelling on LNER this morning. I’ve only ever bought e-tickets from TrainSplit or the forum site so hadn’t realised some look quite different.

Agreed (I don't think it's right you should have problems, but that's the reality)

I’m starting my seven day rover on Saturday. I’ll create a version in Apple Wallet from the PRT and see how I get on. I’ll be carrying the original so any problems are easily solved.

 

[saismee]

I'd rather they err'd on the side of accepting too many tickets, though, than the alternative.

I think that's the golden rule. It is on the passenger to ensure they have a valid ticket, and if you can't quite remember the Super Off-Peak time from your station, across London, to destination X routed via Y, then letting someone in 30 minutes early really isn't going to make much difference. The inspector on the train probably won't know either.

If they are specifically asking you about the validity then it's different of course, but that'll be solved by guiding them to the ticket office.

I think part of the problem here is that gateline staff aren't paid anywhere near what someone appropriately familiar with fares should be paid. You get an approach to checking tickets in line with that.

It is the lowest paying railway job as far as I am aware, but it needs similar ticket knowledge to others (ticket office, conductor, revenue protection), good customer service skills, patience, and the ability to remain calm and professional while being abused.

 

[kieron]

And the weakness is that gates correctly reject them and gateline staff just look at the details and let people through, rather than using a scanner to find out why it was rejected.

Except that the gateline just scanned the ticket. Why expect the member of staff to spend time scanning a ticket when the gateline could (with the right technology) just pass on its findings?

 

[sprunt]

Except that the gateline just scanned the ticket. Why expect the member of staff to spend time scanning a ticket when the gateline could (with the right technology) just pass on its findings?

Does that technology exist, and does the member of staff have access to it? Because if not, then there's your answer. Either way, the problem is that in the scenario described the staff member is looking at the ticket and reacting to that rather than consulting the outcome of a scan to see why the ticket was rejected.


Is the answer to the OP's question actually documented anywhere. The answer's in this thread do seem to mainly be opinion, albeit with good arguments on both sides.

 

[Haywain]

Is the answer to the OP's question actually documented anywhere.

No.

The answer's in this thread do seem to mainly be opinion, albeit with good arguments on both sides.

Because there is no documented answer.

 

[blimmo]

that'll be solved by guiding them to the ticket office.

Ha, a brave assumption!

 

[saismee]

Ha, a brave assumption!

The ticket office staff at my station are very knowledgeable and would be willing to find out if they didn't know off the top of their heads. All of this info is documented somewhere, you just need to find a member of staff willing to spend time to search for it... time that is not available at a single-staffed gateline.

 

[MrJeeves]

The ticket office staff at my station are very knowledgeable and would be willing to find out if they didn't know off the top of their heads.

Unfortunately, your ticket office staff aren't at every station!

 

[kieron]

Does that technology exist, and does the member of staff have access to it? Because if not, then there's your answer.

Either way, the problem is that in the scenario described the staff member is looking at the ticket and reacting to that rather than consulting the outcome of a scan to see why the ticket was rejected.

I don't know if it's a problem, but it's what some people are complaining about on this thread.

My point was just that, if the answer to your question is "no", this is a technology problem. Checking the writing is much quicker than scanning the barcode a second time, so that's what a gateline assistant will do, especially when there's a crowd of people waiting to use the gates.

 

[sprunt]

My point was just that, if the answer to your question is "no", this is a technology problem. Checking the writing is much quicker than scanning the barcode a second time, so that's what a gateline assistant will do, especially when there's a crowd of people waiting to use the gates.

It's not a technology problem if the gateline assistant has an alternative means of scanning the ticket to establish why it was rejected. There's no need for that to prevent anyone else using the gates, passenger and assistant can simply move to one side.