Are Dispatchers Allowed To Stand Forwards Of The Yellow Line?

[Rail2002]

Are Dispatchers allowed to stand forwards of the yellow line at platforms? I've seen some who take care to stand behind and also seen some dispatch trains being just inches away from the side of the train. Does anyone know what the official policy is?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Of course they are! How could they possibly see the dispatch corridor on a busy platform if they weren't themselves in it?

Surely it's entirely logical that dispatch staff and train crew use that area to check it is clear and safe to dispatch.

That being said, if the platform is clear and they have an unobstructed view of the PTI (Platform Train Interface), then they are most likely going to stand behind the yellow line.

 

[class 9]

They can be over the line observing the platform, but should move behind the line as the train arrives.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Given the entirely random placing of yellow lines across the network a blanket rule would be daft. Some are forward of the tactile paving, some are behind it, some are formed from the tactile paving, on several platforms I know parts of the yellow line allow about six inches of standing room behind them before meeting the back fence. The irony being of course that back in the day when there was a real risk of being whacked in the face by an opening slam door if you stood too close to the edge, most stations didn't have any yellow lines at all.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Given the entirely random placing of yellow lines across the network a blanket rule would be daft. Some are forward of the tactile paving, some are behind it, some are formed from the tactile paving, on several platforms I know parts of the yellow line allow about six inches of standing room behind them before meeting the back fence. The irony being of course that back in the day when there was a real risk of being whacked in the face by an opening slam door if you stood too close to the edge, most stations didn't have any yellow lines at all.

The yellow lines probably mean different things to passengers than they do to staff.

Guards are trained on having a clear PTI for safe dispatch. Easy to describe it as a box from the train to the yellow line, and as tall as the can't rail.

Passengers probably just see it as a safe distance from the edge of the platform - which can look strange on narrow platforms where there isn't much of gap further back as you say.

I would disagree that most stations don't have yellow lines, certainly from my experience it's nigh on everywhere (though not at Lime St as I see right now)

 

[styles]

Given the entirely random placing of yellow lines across the network a blanket rule would be daft. Some are forward of the tactile paving, some are behind it, some are formed from the tactile paving, on several platforms I know parts of the yellow line allow about six inches of standing room behind them before meeting the back fence. The irony being of course that back in the day when there was a real risk of being whacked in the face by an opening slam door if you stood too close to the edge, most stations didn't have any yellow lines at all.

Yeah, this feels like the question the other day about how passengers should stop a train in an emergency. Yes, rail staff are perhaps going to call the Network Rail emergency number or use the two hands above the head stop signal, but the average passenger is probably going to call 999, use the emergency alarms if nearby, or wave frantically at the driver. Passengers aren't and shouldn't really be expected to know a lot of safety critical stuff like when it may be safe to stand forward of the yellow lines. Staff on the other hand receive specific training and are sometimes even made to read policies and operating procedures.

 

[thedbdiboy]

I would disagree that most stations don't have yellow lines, certainly from my experience it's nigh on everywhere (though not at Lime St as I see right now)

I was referring to the past - most stations do indeed have them today. I am old enough to remember the very first ones, which were added to platforms passed by high speed services in the mid 70s as the HST fleet was being rolled out. This meant in many cases that stations only had them on those platforms passed for 100mph+ running. But it was a long time ago now.

 

[fishwomp]

Of course they are! How could they possibly see the dispatch corridor on a busy platform if they weren't themselves in it?

But not unless the stopped/stopping train is in the platform (or proper visual of line clear in accordance with traini ng): no driver wants to see anyone, hiviz or otherwise, as they fly through at speed, in that area.

 

[Towers]

Some dispatchers certainly appear to think that they must be immune from being killed by a train because they’re wearing a hi viz vest; I’ve seen some stand worryingly close to the side of a departing train and often with their backs to it - if they were to slip/stumble/fall (or indeed be pushed, accidentally or otherwise), it wouldn’t end well.

 

[High Dyke]

Not related to train dispatch, but arrival of a terminating service / platform staff.

Alighting from a train that terminated in P2 (bay platform) at Nottingham last week passengers were bellowed at by platform staff to "stand behind the yellow line" of the empty platform 1. Noticing the member of staff was breaking their own instructions, by standing beyond the yellow line, I've now took to pointing at them and explaining their infringement.

 

[class 9]

Some dispatchers certainly appear to think that they must be immune from being killed by a train because they’re wearing a hi viz vest; I’ve seen some stand worryingly close to the side of a departing train and often with their backs to it - if they were to slip/stumble/fall (or indeed be pushed, accidentally or otherwise), it wouldn’t end well.

This occurs regularly with trains arriving into platforms, EMR staff at Sheffield & Derby seem to do it regularly.

 

[dosxuk]

if they were to slip/stumble/fall (or indeed be pushed, accidentally or otherwise), it wouldn’t end well.

At the vast majority of stations, being beyond the yellow line will not protect them from a slip/stumble/fall/push - the lines are not far enough back for an adult to have space to safely fall into. But then that's not why they're there.

If I'm crossing the road where there is an island in the middle, I never feel the need to continually turn so I can see all traffic, I (and most pedestrians that I've seen), will happily stand with their back to moving cars, often at higher speeds than a departing train, and certainly less predictably operated.

If you're at risk of spontaneously collapsing, a dispatcher is probably not a suitable role.

 

[Rail2002]

Some dispatchers certainly appear to think that they must be immune from being killed by a train because they’re wearing a hi viz vest; I’ve seen some stand worryingly close to the side of a departing train and often with their backs to it - if they were to slip/stumble/fall (or indeed be pushed, accidentally or otherwise), it wouldn’t end well.

This is what I was thinking about. What if they were to suffer a medical emergency such as a cardiac arrest and fall over the edge? Would the Train Manager or Driver if DOR be liable for not stopping the train when a person is over the line, even if they are a member of rail staff?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

But not unless the stopped/stopping train is in the platform (or proper visual of line clear in accordance with traini ng): no driver wants to see anyone, hiviz or otherwise, as they fly through at speed, in that area.

But why would dispatchers be standing there for a through service? There are times where a platform is extremely busy and the only place for a dispatcher to stand, be visible, and control the platform edge is being past the yellow line.

A driver would likely blow their horn on seeing someone close to the edge, regardless of a hi-viz. Station staff would raise an arm, just the same as NR track workers would to acknowledge the horn sounding and, if they had concerns over the distance, would retreat away temporarily.

Some dispatchers certainly appear to think that they must be immune from being killed by a train because they’re wearing a hi viz vest; I’ve seen some stand worryingly close to the side of a departing train and often with their backs to it - if they were to slip/stumble/fall (or indeed be pushed, accidentally or otherwise), it wouldn’t end well.

It may seem strange to you that they do this, but they have backs towards the train so that they can see as much of the platform as possible whilst the train is departing. Stopping, or drawing attention, to anyone approaching the train.

The train itself is the responsibility of the train crew first and foremost, be the DOO or otherwise. It's why the rule book specifies that a guard must be at a window, observing the train fully off of the platform.

How likely is a trip or fall likely to be? Can't say I've ever seen, or been made aware of a member of staff falling trackside or down the side of a train during dispatch. That has to be such minute odds.

 

[800001]

But why would dispatchers be standing there for a through service? There are times where a platform is extremely busy and the only place for a dispatcher to stand, be visible, and control the platform edge is being past the yellow line.

A driver would likely blow their horn on seeing someone close to the edge, regardless of a hi-viz. Station staff would raise an arm, just the same as NR track workers would to acknowledge the horn sounding and, if they had concerns over the distance, would retreat away temporarily.

It may seem strange to you that they do this, but they have backs towards the train so that they can see as much of the platform as possible whilst the train is departing. Stopping, or drawing attention, to anyone approaching the train.

The train itself is the responsibility of the train crew first and foremost, be the DOO or otherwise. It's why the rule book specifies that a guard must be at a window, observing the train fully off of the platform.

How likely is a trip or fall likely to be? Can't say I've ever seen, or been made aware of a member of staff falling trackside or down the side of a train during dispatch. That has to be such minute odds.

I've known train guards fall between train and platform during despatch, but obviously the train can't depart without them so no real risk.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I've known train guards fall between train and platform during despatch, but obviously the train can't depart without them so no real risk.

Yes, I've known this happen to 2 guards also. I've slipped on the painted edge but stayed upright too. So it definitely can be hazardous.

 

[furnessvale]

I have a similar question. Are train drivers allowed to enter loco cabs? After all, it is a restricted area to the public.

 

[styles]

I have a similar question. Are train drivers allowed to enter loco cabs? After all, it is a restricted area to the public.

Depends whether their coffee is in a paper bag or not.

But yes, I agree with your argument.

 

[Towers]

I have a similar question. Are train drivers allowed to enter loco cabs? After all, it is a restricted area to the public.

I wonder if station staff are allowed to ride their bicycles down the platform so that they can more easily tackle any customers who might be doing the same?

 

[fishwomp]

(tad sarcastic comment dleted)

 

[Deepgreen]

Some sarcastic posts being a tad harsh on a new forum member, perhaps?

 

[fishwomp]

Some sarcastic posts being a tad harsh on a new forum member, perhaps?

Yup, guilty, my bad..

 

[Towers]

I shall leave my own sarcastic post here because it was a response to the sarcastic post from @furnessvale which, I think, might have been partly aimed at my sarcastic post about dispatchers being immortal because of a hi viz…

Or something

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Some dispatchers certainly appear to think that they must be immune from being killed by a train because they’re wearing a hi viz vest; I’ve seen some stand worryingly close to the side of a departing train and often with their backs to it - if they were to slip/stumble/fall (or indeed be pushed, accidentally or otherwise), it wouldn’t end well.

Obviously if your job requires to you be on the far side of the yellow line, then fair enough, especially if you're dispatching a train so are fully aware of this hazard.

However, I have seen this with the agency 'travel-safe' or equivalent officers at some stations without a dispatch role; walking along the wrong side of the yellow line with their backs to approaching traffic, sometimes while having a conversation with their mates. It's not a good look while they're bellowing at passengers to get behind the yellow line.

I've also seen a member of station staff yelling at passengers/photographers waiting for a steam railtour to stand behind the yellow line, then immediately stepping over the wrong side of the line as it arrived to take her own photo (blocking everybody else's shot at the same time). Again, not a good look from someone who is supposed to be setting an example.

It suggests that maybe there's a training weakness there around 'practice what you preach'.

 

[MikeWM]

Not related to train dispatch, but arrival of a terminating service / platform staff.

Alighting from a train that terminated in P2 (bay platform) at Nottingham last week passengers were bellowed at by platform staff to "stand behind the yellow line" of the empty platform 1. Noticing the member of staff was breaking their own instructions, by standing beyond the yellow line, I've now took to pointing at them and explaining their infringement.

I wonder if this was the same member of staff who I saw very aggressively shouting at some poor passenger who had done nothing wrong, also on platform 1, at Nottingham earlier this year.

The passenger was trying to get on a EMR Norwich service that was splitting, but there was no obvious way to tell that the split was happening at that moment, the only clue to someone just arriving being the door buttons not being illuminated - but in the strong midday sun it wasn't really possible to see that anyway. Anyway, he didn't even get chance to try to press the button before he was shouted at in a *very* aggressive and menacing manner by one of the platform staff for being over the yellow line, while, err, trying to get on the train he wanted to catch, that was right there in the platform and announced on the screens, a few minutes before its departure time.

I've seen a lot of what I would consider very unprofessional 'shouting' at people over the last few years but this was another level entirely. It was incredibly unpleasant for no particular reason, to such a degree that I seriously considered reporting it (but I was in the middle of a rover at the time, and never quite got around to it).

The railway really doesn't do itself any favours with things like this.