Is the South West losing out on GWR Diversions over East West Rail?

[irish_rail]

I'm a bit confused about these diversions, as apparently they are just going to be Bristol and Swansea trains, and they are likely to carry on for years (yes years) to come. So people in the south west are going to be cut off from the nations capital at the busiest times (the school holidays), and with what alternative? Are we expected to pack onto the already full trains ex Swansea and Bristol? Or are we supposed to get the all stations Waterloo trains? Or buses?
I was under the impression one of HS2s main selling points was that it wouldn't lead to years of disruption on the WCML, but all that's happening is the pain is being shifted to a region that gains absolutely nothing from HS2 whatsoever.

 

[JamesT]

I'm a bit confused about these diversions, as apparently they are just going to be Bristol and Swansea trains, and they are likely to carry on for years (yes years) to come. So people in the south west are going to be cut off from the nations capital at the busiest times (the school holidays), and with what alternative? Are we expected to pack onto the already full trains ex Swansea and Bristol? Or are we supposed to get the all stations Waterloo trains? Or buses?
I was under the impression one of HS2s main selling points was that it wouldn't lead to years of disruption on the WCML, but all that's happening is the pain is being shifted to a region that gains absolutely nothing from HS2 whatsoever.

This year's diversions are nothing to do with HS2, they're upgrading Dolphin Junction.

But even so, there are a limited number of trains they can send round to Euston. Surely you can understand the priority is to disadvantage the fewest number of people? If the Swansea and Bristol trains are already full, then tipping those out at Reading is going to be worse than your less heavily loaded ones from the South West.

 

[irish_rail]

This year's diversions are nothing to do with HS2, they're upgrading Dolphin Junction.

But even so, there are a limited number of trains they can send round to Euston. Surely you can understand the priority is to disadvantage the fewest number of people? If the Swansea and Bristol trains are already full, then tipping those out at Reading is going to be worse than your less heavily loaded ones from the South West.

Incorrect, during holiday times the trains from the south west will certainly be busier than the Bristols and the Swanseas, even during the winter months. I simply don't understand what happens when a train of 700 people ex Penzance pulls into Reading? (and yes there are trains that load like this during the school holidays). Will all these people need to join a queuing system to get onto a Waterloo stopper? It's going to be sheer carnage. Exactly the type of carnage we where warned would occur if the WCML was upgraded as opposed to HS2 being built.

 

[The Planner]

I'm a bit confused about these diversions, as apparently they are just going to be Bristol and Swansea trains, and they are likely to carry on for years (yes years) to come. So people in the south west are going to be cut off from the nations capital at the busiest times (the school holidays), and with what alternative? Are we expected to pack onto the already full trains ex Swansea and Bristol? Or are we supposed to get the all stations Waterloo trains? Or buses?
I was under the impression one of HS2s main selling points was that it wouldn't lead to years of disruption on the WCML, but all that's happening is the pain is being shifted to a region that gains absolutely nothing from HS2 whatsoever.

Could always just bus people from Reading or Maidenhead instead and give up.

 

[JamesT]

Incorrect, during holiday times the trains from the south west will certainly be busier than the Bristols and the Swanseas, even during the winter months. I simply don't understand what happens when a train of 700 people ex Penzance pulls into Reading? (and yes there are trains that load like this during the school holidays). Will all these people need to join a queuing system to get onto a Waterloo stopper? It's going to be sheer carnage. Exactly the type of carnage we where warned would occur if the WCML was upgraded as opposed to HS2 being built.

They can get on the train to Waterloo, change at Swindon for Euston, get a bus.
But you've got 2tph to Euston. It's not as if every other destination is keeping its service in full and the South-West is being picked on.
Are you really suggesting that these should be made up from trains at the end of a 5 hour trip and the consequent potential for delays?

 

[Zomboid]

There's a limit to that can be sent to Euston. If there were capacity for 3tph then it's likely that the third would come from the Exeter direction.

But there isn't, and Bristol/ South Wales are the bigger flows.

 

[The Planner]

There's a limit to that can be sent to Euston. If there were capacity for 3tph then it's likely that the third would come from the Exeter direction.

But there isn't, and Bristol/ South Wales are the bigger flows.

GWR never wanted more than 2tph. There is also the aspect that people forget that is a journey planner is going to put people on a shorter duration train in the majority of cases so likely SWR from Exeter. You don't want to be arranging an operation like this to be carting fresh air about.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

There's also non-rail options, National Express, Flix, driving, potentially even flying from Exeter, Newquay etc etc.

The railway can never always be the only or first option - it should be attractive, where that is possible, but in the vast majority of cases, the railway is not, and never will be attractive - just because of how society has organised itself in the car centric UK historically.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2026 ==

There's a limit to that can be sent to Euston. If there were capacity for 3tph then it's likely that the third would come from the Exeter direction.

But there isn't, and Bristol/ South Wales are the bigger flows.

The capacity probably does exist / could be found if it was absolutely necessary - but as above, it was not requested or required by GWR. There are bigger issues around stock/crew availability, reliability and obviously, cost.

There's also a customer aspect here - I'm not convinced too many customers travelling from Penzance/Plymouth - (on an already long journey on sub-par and packed 80x units) would realistically tolerate a lengthy diversion through Oxford and Milton Keynes, reversal, into a London Terminal they're likely not too familiar with. They'll simply not travel and make other plans.

 

[SynthD]

If the Milton Keynes diversion adds over an hour, wouldn’t you be better off in one seat on the slow Exeter to Waterloo train?

 

[Topological]

Presumably, this neglects the fact that Cardiff to London is 2tph, so sending the Swansea train means that Cardiff retains one of its' two trains. It is hardly a comfortable option there. Likewise Bristol is getting a heavy reduction in through services.

Arguably, you have Exeter and the South West with a change at Bristol and Cheltenham and Gloucester with a change at Swindon. Hereford and the Cotswolds is Oxford into Chiltern. That seems a pretty fair allocation. All you could do differently would be Plymouth via Bristol as one of the trains.

 

[class ep-09]

Needless to say that most trains from South West to Paddington use B&H Line, which would require train reversal at Reading before going to Oxford and then EW Rail, and another reversal at Milton Keynes to Euston.
Only Reading drivers sign Reding West Curve if trains were to go direct to Oxford from B&H skipping Reading.
Trains would have to be route conducted from ??? (no idea where from).

At least trains from Bristol and Swansea can get to Oxford via Didcot West Curve direct in same way as diverted to Marylebone HST’s 7-9 years ago.

 

[irish_rail]

I think people are missing the point here. This is going to wreck holiday travel for years to come. I wonder if local MPs will be happy when they realise that their constituents will no longer have direct London trains for years on end during school holidays. Politically this will go down like a lead balloon. There is already a feeling that the current PM is more bothered about the north than the south, and the optics of this will be terrible. I for one will be very interested to watch the scenes at Exeter as 500 people try to get onto the SWR Waterloo service. Pity anyone trying to join those trains further up the line!

 

[irish_rail]

Incorrect,

Needless to say that most trains from South West to Paddington use B&H Line, which would require train reversal at Reading before going to Oxford and then EW Rail, and another reversal at Milton Keynes to Euston.
Only Reading drivers sign Reding West Curve if trains were to go direct to Oxford from B&H skipping Reading.
Trains would have to be route conducted from ??? (no idea where from).

At least trains from Bristol and Swansea can get to Oxford via Didcot West Curve direct in same way as diverted to Marylebone HST’s 7-9 years ago.

Incorrect, Plymouth and Exeter sign the west curve at Reading, we do reversals from time to time when there is faulty cab equipment.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There's also non-rail options, National Express, Flix, driving, potentially even flying from Exeter, Newquay etc etc.

No flights Exeter to London; Plymouth Airport is long closed. Newquay has lost its PSO Gatwick service.

 

[Zomboid]

Trains from Exeter could go via Bristol or Melksham to get to Oxford, though it is probably better to just get the SWR service.

 

[Snow1964]

Trains from Exeter could go via Bristol or Melksham to get to Oxford, though it is probably better to just get the SWR service.

Although would probably be less congested during a holiday period to go from Westbury via Salisbury to Waterloo.

Unfortunately the South Western Route has never been cleared for IETs (except Reading-Basingstoke-Eastleigh for empty workings to the works)