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Carousel Buses (Go-Ahead group)

AlastairFraser

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To be fair if Reading Buses really want to push back on Carousel the best attack would probably be to extend the aqau to High Wycombe atleast during rush hour.
I'd say an extension to Wallingford via Henley College would be better for RB.
You'd get a fair few college passengers off Carousel and the railway, the A4130 is much less congested Nettlebed - Wallingford and a faster road compared to the A4155.

In addition, you can provide new links up Gravel Hill out of Henley to Greys Court and a regular bus service through Highmoor to Nettlebed then Wallingford.
Wallingford is right in the heart of classic Thames Travel territory, and Thames Travel has been Go Ahead for a while.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I think Go Ahead and Reading Buses should cooperate, they have plenty of mutual interests.
 
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RELL6L

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Strange today on the 850 as virtually all the double deckers have disappeared from the route, except a couple on Henley shorts. None on Readings today and from about 12.00 yesterday most deckers on Reading runs were swapped with singles at High Wycombe onto other routes. Today the 32 has several along with the 1 group while E200s, Citaros, Streetlites etc are on the 850. Neither of the smart Streetdecks painted in the Riversider livery (80671 and 80672) have been out today. I wonder if a problem has been identified, perhaps around Wargrave, where there are buildings encroaching on the narrow road?
 

duncombec

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Strange today on the 850 as virtually all the double deckers have disappeared from the route, except a couple on Henley shorts. None on Readings today and from about 12.00 yesterday most deckers on Reading runs were swapped with singles at High Wycombe onto other routes. Today the 32 has several along with the 1 group while E200s, Citaros, Streetlites etc are on the 850. Neither of the smart Streetdecks painted in the Riversider livery (80671 and 80672) have been out today. I wonder if a problem has been identified, perhaps around Wargrave, where there are buildings encroaching on the narrow road?
I don't know this area to comment, but the one thing that does appear to have become a problem recently is trees - branches that were "high" have "drooped", and are now under windscreen level.

If there are any low-ish trees on the route, they may have become too low.
 

Mollman

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I don't know this area to comment, but the one thing that does appear to have become a problem recently is trees - branches that were "high" have "drooped", and are now under windscreen level.

If there are any low-ish trees on the route, they may have become too low.
There are a few routes such around the country that have suffered the same issue, due to the weather trees are drooping causing damage to deckers.
 

Jamiescott1

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The 850 is being rebranded as "850 riverside". The timetables at all the stops have been updated to reflect this and I've seen 1 double decker painted as 850 riverside.
Maybe the other double deckers are in the process of being rebranded too.
 

Mgameing123

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The 850 is being rebranded as "850 riverside". The timetables at all the stops have been updated to reflect this and I've seen 1 double decker painted as 850 riverside.
Maybe the other double deckers are in the process of being rebranded too.
They should’ve called it Regatta 850 (if you know you know).
 

RELL6L

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Strange today on the 850 as virtually all the double deckers have disappeared from the route, except a couple on Henley shorts. None on Readings today and from about 12.00 yesterday most deckers on Reading runs were swapped with singles at High Wycombe onto other routes. Today the 32 has several along with the 1 group while E200s, Citaros, Streetlites etc are on the 850. Neither of the smart Streetdecks painted in the Riversider livery (80671 and 80672) have been out today. I wonder if a problem has been identified, perhaps around Wargrave, where there are buildings encroaching on the narrow road?
This persisted for two or three weeks then the double deckers started working through to Reading again. By Wednesday this week every single board on the 850 (there are 11) was run by a double decker including all of the Streetdecks that were out. Then the last two Reading journeys were single deckers and yesterday, Thursday, all Reading journeys were single deckers again! Just three deckers out on three of the Henley short boards (the fourth one starts with a Reading run). Today - nearly all deckers again - very odd. Wycombe locals busy with deckers yesterday and school term services now starting to run including new 623 and 631. But just seen the 624 and 625 and not a soul on them, I assume Henley College term hasn't started yet!

The Scania deckers appear to be getting withdrawn whenever anything goes wrong with them, they are now down to 15 of the original 24, but Carousel have nine Streetdecks from the range 80671-80680 of which four are in Riversider colours. The Citaros from Go Ahead London are also trickling into service all smartly repainted and seem to be used mainly on the 103. One of the Volvo B7RLEs has been scrapped but 09-plate Citaro 80883 soldiers on.
 

Mark J

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Whatever happened to Arriva's beyond knackered fleet of Mercedes Benz buses that used to be used on the old 800/850 route.

To keep on topic, Carousel are doing a far better job than Arriva ever did. It is just a shame they decided to get rid of the 'Any 5 Day' tickets.
 

Mark J

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12 May 2018
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A couple still going at Tunbridge Wells, some trainers, some scrapped
You're joking!

Those Buses were ready for the scrapheap by the time Arriva pulled out of operations.

Can remember being on one that leaked badly during wet weather, rendering many seats unusable.

Surprised some are still in use.
 

Mgameing123

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You're joking!

Those Buses were ready for the scrapheap by the time Arriva pulled out of operations.

Can remember being on one that leaked badly during wet weather, rendering many seats unusable.

Surprised some are still in use.
It's Arriva. UK bus operators in general love to run their buses to the ground. The fact that Aylesbury is still using buses from 2001 is insane.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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You're joking!

Those Buses were ready for the scrapheap by the time Arriva pulled out of operations.

Can remember being on one that leaked badly during wet weather, rendering many seats unusable.

Surprised some are still in use.
There were a mix of 58, 59 and 12 plates. Remember that some were withdrawn when Wycombe closed and sold for scrap so it may be that only the best ones were retained and the worst ones (like you experienced) went to the scrappys.
 

RELL6L

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There were a mix of 58, 59 and 12 plates. Remember that some were withdrawn when Wycombe closed and sold for scrap so it may be that only the best ones were retained and the worst ones (like you experienced) went to the scrappys.
Most of them were 12-plate including the two now at Tunbridge Wells which have joined two other 12-plate ones which have, I think, been there since new. Tunbridge Wells has done very well in recent years keeping superannuated vehicles on the road, the last 51-plate Volvo B7TL went not long ago and there are plenty of double deckers there older than these Citaros.

At Carousel the mainstay vehicles on the 850 post-Arriva have been 09- and 10-plate Scania double deckers and 61-plate Volvo B7RLEs, so older than the Arriva Citaros they replaced. Much better maintained and presented though. These are fading away and 66-plate Streetdecks appear to be in the majority most of the time. But yesterday afternoon all the Reading workings went back to single deckers and today is a mixture.
 

duncombec

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Most of them were 12-plate including the two now at Tunbridge Wells which have joined two other 12-plate ones which have, I think, been there since new. Tunbridge Wells has done very well in recent years keeping superannuated vehicles on the road, the last 51-plate Volvo B7TL went not long ago and there are plenty of double deckers there older than these Citaros.
Indeed, they were significantly overhauled before entering service in Kent, and seem to be generally performing quite well.

We don't jokingly refer to them as the resurrection team for nothing...
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Most of them were 12-plate including the two now at Tunbridge Wells which have joined two other 12-plate ones which have, I think, been there since new. Tunbridge Wells has done very well in recent years keeping superannuated vehicles on the road, the last 51-plate Volvo B7TL went not long ago and there are plenty of double deckers there older than these Citaros.
Indeed, they were significantly overhauled before entering service in Kent, and seem to be generally performing quite well.

We don't jokingly refer to them as the resurrection team for nothing...

There were some 58/59 plates and notably, some of the older Citaros actually went to work for Arriva Midlands for a while. Whilst the majority of Citaros were 12 plates, it was also interesting that some were withdrawn outright for scrap, some went as trainers, and some were sent to TW for resuscitation. Therefore, indicates that the better ones were kept and the worst binned off.

TW has a reputation for being very good for maintenance and presentation.
 

Mgameing123

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Would that be Red Rose and Red Line buses?
Yes especially them. But honestly that fact that Carousel still have buses from 2010 is insane to me because where I now live we have a 12 year maximum age requirement for all contracts that buses may not exceed. Though to be fair this is also what makes the UK bus scene a lot more interesting for us enthusiasts :lol:
 

Jamiescott1

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This persisted for two or three weeks then the double deckers started working through to Reading again. By Wednesday this week every single board on the 850 (there are 11) was run by a double decker including all of the Streetdecks that were out. Then the last two Reading journeys were single deckers and yesterday, Thursday, all Reading journeys were single deckers again! Just three deckers out on three of the Henley short boards (the fourth one starts with a Reading run). Today - nearly all deckers again - very odd. Wycombe locals busy with deckers yesterday and school term services now starting to run including new 623 and 631. But just seen the 624 and 625 and not a soul on them, I assume Henley College term hasn't started yet!

The Scania deckers appear to be getting withdrawn whenever anything goes wrong with them, they are now down to 15 of the original 24, but Carousel have nine Streetdecks from the range 80671-80680 of which four are in Riversider colours. The Citaros from Go Ahead London are also trickling into service all smartly repainted and seem to be used mainly on the 103. One of the Volvo B7RLEs has been scrapped but 09-plate Citaro 80883 soldiers on.
Single decker have appeared on the 850 again. frustrating on the services that arrive and depart from Henley just before/ after college start / finish times.
2 times I have had 3 buses drive straight past unable to stop as they were fully loaded.
 

Mgameing123

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Single decker have appeared on the 850 again. frustrating on the services that arrive and depart from Henley just before/ after college start / finish times.
2 times I have had 3 buses drive straight past unable to stop as they were fully loaded.
Does Carousel not run doubles on the peak time buses?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Oh I don't mean doubles as in a double decker. I mean doubles as in running 2 buses at the same time to provide enough capacity for all passengers.
Because it's expensive to have another driver (and they're at a premium as it is) so hence why they would normally aim to employ deckers. If they have deckers off the road, they are unlikely to be able to obtain another driver in peak so they'll send a single decker out as it's better than nothing.
 

RELL6L

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I would start by saying that the service on the 850 is still better than Arriva, but it is becoming very poor in places, notably the peak hours. The 850 has some key functions, taking Wycombe and Marlow students to Henley College and taking Henley children to Marlow schools. These need the buses at these times to run and, where possible, be double deckers. I think Carousel has built up this market by running a better service and being more reliable than Arriva but is in danger of losing it again. In the new term the 7.45 from Henley to Wycombe has failed to run twice and been over half an hour late another day. Especially on Tuesday 8th when the following bus was a single decker. On some days the key buses from Wycombe to Henley have also been single deckers. There may be some logic to it but it seems almost random which workings get double deckers in some cases. During the day the position improves as buses come off other working but still journeys are missing and are late. Today, for example, the 8.30 to Reading was run by the incoming 36S due to arrive at 8.42. The 8.45 to Henley didn't track but may have run. No 9.00 to Reading.

There is a new school route to Henley College this term, the 623 from Cryers Hill via Amersham, the edge of Beaconsfield and western parts of Slough then Maidenhead. I don't think it has ever arrived within half an hour of its due time and typically up to an hour late. Today due 8.35, actual 9.21. That's no use for college students if they are expected to be there for 9.00! Usually a bit better in the evening but about 45 minutes late finishing its journey yesterday. Most of the other college service - the 607, 620, 624 and 625, don't track this term.

There may be driver issues but I think the problem is mainly shortage of vehicles. There are supposed to be 10 Streetdecks but one hasn't yet been out since repaint into the smart Riversider livery. Of the other nine only four are on the road today. No idea why. Five Scanias and two of the Flightline E400MMCs are off the road. None of these are long term. Caveat this, one double decker is probably on the 607. There are seven new second-hand Citaros but these do not seem to have been the most reliable buses - having said that all seven are out today.

There are also definitely traffic issues and I don't envy whoever has to deal with these. Some days it takes ages around Wycombe, sometimes in Marlow, Henley and Reading there can be severe traffic issues. You can't always predict where they will be but it is pretty certain there will be some. Notably they often don't allow enough time for a dead run to take up service, eg the 7.45 from Henley to Wycombe. This used to run off a 6.45 from Wycombe to Henley so you could see if it was tracking but now it comes into Henley via the A4130 and across the bridge which can have terrible traffic and only starts tracking when it picks up service.

I have never seen evidence of duplicate buses on the 850, I think this is most unlikely.
 

duncombec

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I would start by saying that the service on the 850 is still better than Arriva, but it is becoming very poor in places, notably the peak hours. The 850 has some key functions, taking Wycombe and Marlow students to Henley College and taking Henley children to Marlow schools. These need the buses at these times to run and, where possible, be double deckers. I think Carousel has built up this market by running a better service and being more reliable than Arriva but is in danger of losing it again. In the new term the 7.45 from Henley to Wycombe has failed to run twice and been over half an hour late another day. Especially on Tuesday 8th when the following bus was a single decker. On some days the key buses from Wycombe to Henley have also been single deckers. There may be some logic to it but it seems almost random which workings get double deckers in some cases. During the day the position improves as buses come off other working but still journeys are missing and are late. Today, for example, the 8.30 to Reading was run by the incoming 36S due to arrive at 8.42. The 8.45 to Henley didn't track but may have run. No 9.00 to Reading.

There is a new school route to Henley College this term, the 623 from Cryers Hill via Amersham, the edge of Beaconsfield and western parts of Slough then Maidenhead. I don't think it has ever arrived within half an hour of its due time and typically up to an hour late. Today due 8.35, actual 9.21. That's no use for college students if they are expected to be there for 9.00! Usually a bit better in the evening but about 45 minutes late finishing its journey yesterday. Most of the other college service - the 607, 620, 624 and 625, don't track this term.

There may be driver issues but I think the problem is mainly shortage of vehicles. There are supposed to be 10 Streetdecks but one hasn't yet been out since repaint into the smart Riversider livery. Of the other nine only four are on the road today. No idea why. Five Scanias and two of the Flightline E400MMCs are off the road. None of these are long term. Caveat this, one double decker is probably on the 607. There are seven new second-hand Citaros but these do not seem to have been the most reliable buses - having said that all seven are out today.

There are also definitely traffic issues and I don't envy whoever has to deal with these. Some days it takes ages around Wycombe, sometimes in Marlow, Henley and Reading there can be severe traffic issues. You can't always predict where they will be but it is pretty certain there will be some. Notably they often don't allow enough time for a dead run to take up service, eg the 7.45 from Henley to Wycombe. This used to run off a 6.45 from Wycombe to Henley so you could see if it was tracking but now it comes into Henley via the A4130 and across the bridge which can have terrible traffic and only starts tracking when it picks up service.

I have never seen evidence of duplicate buses on the 850, I think this is most unlikely.
I'll admit to not knowing the area, but a quick look on one.network suggests a series of roadworks either on or just off the 623 route, with the various 623 roads the diversion for those closures.

It's very noticeable that time is consistently being lost in the same three places, and that all three of those places seem to either have roadworks, or likely increased traffic as a result thereof.

That's not to say it's an excuse, but it wouldn't be the first time a route somewhere has been affected in such a way... equally that it may have to wait time in one area, only to then lose twice as much further down the route! As you say, somewhat unhelpful for comparative purposes that the other services don't track to see if they suffer similarly.
 

Mgameing123

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Because it's expensive to have another driver (and they're at a premium as it is) so hence why they would normally aim to employ deckers. If they have deckers off the road, they are unlikely to be able to obtain another driver in peak so they'll send a single decker out as it's better than nothing.
Fair enough but they need to make sure to provide enough capacity. My local routes runs with 4 buses at the same time to make everyone can get on.
 

sturfc

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At least the end of last week they did duplicate a 36 journey with a Single deck and double deck to handle the school and college traffic, not sure if thats continued this week, although they definitely seem short of deckers this week, which has meant sprinters on one of the town routes on 1 or 2 of the 4 workings, allowing Enviro 200's to cover other services
 

Dwarfer1979

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Fair enough but they need to make sure to provide enough capacity. My local routes runs with 4 buses at the same time to make everyone can get on.
But someone has to pay for that extra capacity, if you have sufficient off peak work you can spread the cost to make it viable but if you only have a single trip in each direction that needs the extra bus and you don't have enough viable off-peak work to cover you need (taking a relatively low day cost for a bus) about 70 people paying £3 per trip (and school kids are often travelling on discounts so income is some cases may well be below £3 per person per trip) which is difficult to achieve. There are ways to massage these numbers, and operators may take different views on how to cost a peak duplicate depending on the nature of the work, to come out with a slightly different calculation depending on circumstances but at the end of the day even a dozen passengers left behind on one trip isn't going to be a viable demand to meet.
 

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