UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[bahnause]

I personally think that is decades away
You have companies like BMW investing in EVs, but also in new technologies for ICE. The new M3 is Euro 7 compliant despite being a pure ICE with a 3.0L engine, no hybrid technology. BMW have created an all new ignition system which is more efficient

More efficient like "0.0% better under normal road driving conditions" or more efficient like "the second law of thermodynamics and the Carnot limit does not apply by BMW"?

 

[Mawkie]

New study of more than 500,000 used EVs shows battery health is much better than most people think.

According to the latest report, a used Model Ys shows a median State of Health of 94.5% at 50,000 km, falling to 90.3% at 150,000 km which is equivalent to a real-world range per charge of around 379 km, then dropping to roughly 362 km.

Will this latest study assuage people's fears about battery health? Or is losing 10 miles range when the car is on 93k miles a deal breaker?

 

[Snow1964]

New study of more than 500,000 used EVs shows battery health is much better than most people think.

Will this latest study assuage people's fears about battery health? Or is losing 10 miles range when the car is on 93k miles a deal breaker?

Does anyone buying a second hand car worry about having 10% smaller fuel tank from say 50 litres to 45 litres.

Apart from early EVs and those targetted more at local runabout, very few have a range under 200 miles, commonly EVs are 220-260 miles range which only really affects 3.5+ hour journeys. Thats something that is only occasional for most people.

 

[dcbwhaley]

Does anyone buying a second hand car worry about having 10% smaller fuel tank from say 50 litres to 45 litres.

But that is a reduction from 500 to 450 miles. No worries
But 10% on an EV can be 200 to 180 miles where 200 miles is already marginal

 

[gswindale]

But that is a reduction from 500 to 450 miles. No worries
But 10% on an EV can be 200 to 180 miles where 200 miles is already marginal

Why?

200 miles on a motorway is almost 3 hours of driving. You should have taken a decent break in that time, at which point you can charge up. Even 180 miles is over 2.5 hours, so I'd still be having a break part way through that drive.

 

[Bald Rick]

But that is a reduction from 500 to 450 miles. No worries

Not in my ICE it’s not, it’s a reduction from 300 to 270…

 

[GLC]

Why?

200 miles on a motorway is almost 3 hours of driving. You should have taken a decent break in that time, at which point you can charge up. Even 180 miles is over 2.5 hours, so I'd still be having a break part way through that drive.

To be fair, you’d have to be out of your tree to drive 100 to 0% on a motorway in a short(er) range EV. You’d want atleast 10 or 20 miles buffer so there’s no risk of power output dropping, so that takes you to 160 miles of range. Then say it’s cold in the winter and you can shave another 10-20 miles off that. Then if you don’t leave the house on 100% charge you’re lopping off another chunk of miles.

A 200 mile range EV is nice (and significantly better than what my own 150 mile EV can do!), but it’s not difficult for such a car to end up with a fairly paltry range, and needing a 30 minute charge every 90 minutes to keep it going at motorway speed

 

[Bald Rick]

To be fair, you’d have to be out of your tree to drive 100 to 0% on a motorway in a short(er) range EV. You’d want atleast 10 or 20 miles buffer so there’s no risk of power output dropping, so that takes you to 160 miles of range. Then say it’s cold in the winter and you can shave another 10-20 miles off that. Then if you don’t leave the house on 100% charge you’re lopping off another chunk of miles.

A 200 mile range EV is nice (and significantly better than what my own 150 mile EV can do!), but it’s not difficult for such a car to end up with a fairly paltry range, and needing a 30 minute charge every 90 minutes to keep it going at motorway speed

I recently did 130 miles at, ahem, “Motorway speeds” in mine, taking the range from 80 to 22%, and that’s in a car with a nominal 250 range. Better than expected, given that there was no traffic and little opportunity to get a tow, and no need to slow down.

Off the motorway we’re routinely getting 4miles / kWh.

 

[bspahh]

Why?

200 miles on a motorway is almost 3 hours of driving. You should have taken a decent break in that time, at which point you can charge up. Even 180 miles is over 2.5 hours, so I'd still be having a break part way through that drive.

200 miles could be a 100 mile return journey, where I might <not> want to mess about with charging during the day.

 

[trebor79]

200 miles could be a 100 mile return journey, where I might want to mess about with charging during the day.

Assume you meant “might not want to”. Reality is there’s no messing about. Many car parks have sockets now, plug in, tap card, walk away.
I never even think about charging these days, there’s generally ample provision.

 

[bspahh]

Assume you meant “might not want to”. Reality is there’s no messing about. Many car parks have sockets now, plug in, tap card, walk away.
I never even think about charging these days, there’s generally ample provision.

Yes you're right I had missed out "not" in my post.

I've had my EV3 for a little over a year and in 15,000 miles, I've used chargers away from home for 4 trips, some of those were day trips, others over a week. There are more fast chargers around, but I have still had to hunt for them at times, and about 1 time in 4, the charging has failed.

 

[mrmartin]

Yes you're right I had missed out "not" in my post.

I've had my EV3 for a little over a year and in 15,000 miles, I've used chargers away from home for 4 trips, some of those were day trips, others over a week. There are more fast chargers around, but I have still had to hunt for them at times, and about 1 time in 4, the charging has failed.

I don't have home charging so I have a lot of experience with chargers out of home.

I would say my success rate with ultra/rapid chargers has been 100%, only one issue was a charger not working but the one next to it worked. This is over 100+ sessions now.

The success rate of slow chargers has been less good though.

Hence I only use rapid chargers. With the Tesla membership they are extremely cheap. Also the MFG ones are really good for 59p/kWh. And evyee on weekends (43p). Be.ev is ok but they tend to bizarrely have most of them in the south located at garden centers and are therefore closed in the evenings.

Between Tesla and mfg I have never had to hunt for a rapid charger on a longer trip, nevermind all the other networks. I'm surprised this is an issue for people. Every single motorway service station has dozens now so I'm genuinely curious how people found this to be a problem?

 

[jon0844]

If you get an Electroverse card, always check for plunge pricing when there's a lot of solar or wind. Solar might be getting worse now for the upcoming winter months, but wind is likely to be strong (literally) and 20 and 30% discounts can be announced at relatively short notice even in the middle of the day.

 

[bspahh]

Between Tesla and mfg I have never had to hunt for a rapid charger on a longer trip, nevermind all the other networks. I'm surprised this is an issue for people. Every single motorway service station has dozens now so I'm genuinely curious how people found this to be a problem?

My recent long trip was from Cambridgeshire to Arran. I stopped first at the services at Scotch Corner. All the ultra fast chargers were busy when I arrived, but there was a 50kW BP Pulse one which was available. I tried using it with my Electroverse card but it didn't charge. ZapMap says that it was out of service 7 days ago. By that time an ultra fast charger was available, so I used that to 80%.

By the time I got to near Troon, the charge was under 20% with a bit under an hour to spare before the last check in time for the ferry. The KIA SatNav said that was a BP Pulse 50kW charger on my route a few miles from the port at the junction of the A719 and A77. The map showed it in the car park of a café but I couldn't find it, and nothing is shown there on the BP Pulse app or Zapmap. There are two more ultra fast BP Pulse chargers a few miles away. I tried both of those using my Electroverse card and neither worked. At this point I have tried 5 chargers on the day and one has worked.

Nearby there was a pub with an AC 22kW charger which did work. I charged there for 20 minutes, going from 15% to 19% (my car only charges at 10kW on AC). Also in Troon there are some 50kW Charging Scotland chargers, but I had seen that one of those was out of action. This was in August. Since then some new chargers have come into use at the Morrisons near the port in Troon. I saw them as I drove past, but they were not in use. Zapmap also shows some ultra fast MFG chargers near there, which weren't listed when I looked.

On Arran, I was staying on Whiting Bay. The nearest chargers are in Lamlash a few miles away. There is a 50kW Charging Scotland one which I used one evening. There is a penalty fee if you stay there longer than 70 minutes. I fell asleep whilst I was there, but woke up in time. I used it again later in the week, as well as a quick topup at the one in Brodick.

For the return journey, I had been planning on using an ultra fast charger near the A1M, but there was an earlier stop for a toilet break and eye test in Barnard Castle. There was a "75kW" charger at the Morrisons, but that was shared when there were two cars charging, so I only got 37kW, so it took a bit longer, but I ended up with enough charge to get home.

 

[Mawkie]

My recent long trip was from Cambridgeshire to Arran. I stopped first at the services at Scotch Corner. All the ultra fast chargers were busy when I arrived, but there was a 50kW BP Pulse one which was available. I tried using it with my Electroverse card but it didn't charge. ZapMap says that it was out of service 7 days ago. By that time an ultra fast charger was available, so I used that to 80%.

By the time I got to near Troon, the charge was under 20% with a bit under an hour to spare before the last check in time for the ferry. The KIA SatNav said that was a BP Pulse 50kW charger on my route a few miles from the port at the junction of the A719 and A77. The map showed it in the car park of a café but I couldn't find it, and nothing is shown there on the BP Pulse app or Zapmap. There are two more ultra fast BP Pulse chargers a few miles away. I tried both of those using my Electroverse card and neither worked. At this point I have tried 5 chargers on the day and one has worked.

Nearby there was a pub with an AC 22kW charger which did work. I charged there for 20 minutes, going from 15% to 19% (my car only charges at 10kW on AC). Also in Troon there are some 50kW Charging Scotland chargers, but I had seen that one of those was out of action. This was in August. Since then some new chargers have come into use at the Morrisons near the port in Troon. I saw them as I drove past, but they were not in use. Zapmap also shows some ultra fast MFG chargers near there, which weren't listed when I looked.

On Arran, I was staying on Whiting Bay. The nearest chargers are in Lamlash a few miles away. There is a 50kW Charging Scotland one which I used one evening. There is a penalty fee if you stay there longer than 70 minutes. I fell asleep whilst I was there, but woke up in time. I used it again later in the week, as well as a quick topup at the one in Brodick.

For the return journey, I had been planning on using an ultra fast charger near the A1M, but there was an earlier stop for a toilet break and eye test in Barnard Castle. There was a "75kW" charger at the Morrisons, but that was shared when there were two cars charging, so I only got 37kW, so it took a bit longer, but I ended up with enough charge to get home.

This sounds like a right faff. Without negating your experience, could I suggest this might not be a typical experience in 2026? Don't chargers higher than 50kW have to have 99% reliability?

One of the absolute benefits of Tesla's vertical integration is that none of this has ever happened to me. The car solves all these problems without me thinking about it. They own the software, the mapping is fully integrated, the Supercharger sites are all reporting their status constantly, it's always updated, the car even knows which individual charging points are available (re-routing for a later site if full), plug in and walk away, virtually always cheaper than competitors, and fantastic reliability. I never bother with any other CPO.

 

[bspahh]

This sounds like a right faff. Without negating your experience, could I suggest this might not be a typical experience in 2026? Don't chargers higher than 50kW have to have 99% reliability?

<shrug> I work in technical support in a software company. In theory I ought to be able to work out stuff like this.

One of the absolute benefits of Tesla's vertical integration is that none of this has ever happened to me. The car solves all these problems without me thinking about it. They own the software, the mapping is fully integrated, the Supercharger sites are all reporting their status constantly, it's always updated, the car even knows which individual charging points are available (re-routing for a later site if full), plug in and walk away, virtually always cheaper than competitors, and fantastic reliability. I never bother with any other CPO.

I have other reasons to never bother with Tesla

 

[Mawkie]

I have other reasons to never bother with Tesla

I suppose the wider point should be: if Tesla can do it so well, why can't the others?

For a first time EV owner (if a buyer can get over their reluctance to support Elon) I can't see a better offering than a Tesla tbh, new or used.

 

[gg1]

I suppose the wider point should be: if Tesla can do it so well, why can't the others?

For a first time EV owner (if a buyer can get over their reluctance to support Elon) I can't see a better offering than a Tesla tbh, new or used.

Aside from Musk, the other big reason I don't like Teslas is they take the touchscreens for everything principle to extreme lengths.

As long as there are brands who continue to provide physical buttons for basic features like climate control, I'll stick with them.

 

[thejuggler]

I'm in the wilds of Scotland and stopped at John O Groats yesterday. A couple wanted their photo taking so we obliged and had a chat. They had driven from Worcestershire in an EV, but a dealer courtesy car as their own EV had a major battery issue.

I don't know what EV they had, but they were charging every 100 miles or so due to the size of the battery and despite planning where to stop, finding charging points which worked had meant a holiday with too much stress.

 

[trebor79]

Aside from Musk, the other big reason I don't like Teslas is they take the touchscreens for everything principle to extreme lengths.

As long as there are brands who continue to provide physical buttons for basic features like climate control, I'll stick with them.

The touchscreen isn’t an issue other than the deletion of the drive stalk. What I hate most about mine is the insistence on using cameras to control the wipers, lights and cruise control which just does not work properly. I’m forever having to intervene with the wipers. In other cars they just work.

 

[HSTEd]

The grid connection shortage issue is probably going to become the major break on electric goods vehicles - HGV depot charging expansion is going to be slow going unless the government can prevail upon the DNOs to accelerate upgrades for high current chargers.

Perhaps we could build giant secure lorry service areas on old power station sites near motorways. 500+ 375kW chargers would make a transmission level load after all! (200+MW), let alone the Megawatt Charging System.

 

[marshlinker]

Why?

200 miles on a motorway is almost 3 hours of driving. You should have taken a decent break in that time, at which point you can charge up. Even 180 miles is over 2.5 hours, so I'd still be having a break part way through that drive.

It's because of return journeys where you don't want to charge at the destination. For example I live 92 miles from Heathrow- if I go to pick up friends and family. I don't want to wait 30 minutes at Heathrow and I don't want to call in to either Clackett Lane or Cobham services on the M25 which are the obvious en route chargers in either location. A 250 official range EV will struggle to make that trip especially in winter, an ice won't.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's because of return journeys where you don't want to charge at the destination. For example I live 92 miles from Heathrow- if I go to pick up friends and family. I don't want to wait 30 minutes at Heathrow and I don't want to call in to either Clackett Lane or Cobham services on the M25 which are the obvious en route chargers in either location. A 250 official range EV will struggle to make that trip especially in winter, an ice won't.

My 250 mile range EV would do that easily, so long as I was prepared to charge to 100% before departure, stay under the speed limit, and be on under 10% when I got back (which I would - I once drove a quarter of the way round the M25 with 0 miles range in my ICE showing the whole way)

 

[Mawkie]

I don't know what EV they had, but they were charging every 100 miles or so due to the size of the battery and despite planning where to stop, finding charging points which worked had meant a holiday with too much stress.

I mean, I drove from Great Yarmouth to Newquay in a Fiat 126 once - technically it could do it, but I decided then that I would always pick the right tool for the job.

The touchscreen isn’t an issue other than the deletion of the drive stalk. What I hate most about mine is the insistence on using cameras to control the wipers, lights and cruise control which just does not work properly. I’m forever having to intervene with the wipers. In other cars they just work.

Agreed, those screens aren't especially limited to EVs - every manufacturer headed that way to save £££, with a few rolling back and adding heater knobs. I rarely interact with the screen - most of what I want is done automatically. The auto wipers are dire on a Tesla, wish they just added a sensor.

The grid connection shortage issue is probably going to become the major break on electric goods vehicles

I guess the way forward would be those BESS (Battery Energy Storage System) that BYD were showcasing recently with their 1.5 megawatt chargers. That somewhat bypasses any gird shortfall by supplementing it with batteries.

 

[mrmartin]

My recent long trip was from Cambridgeshire to Arran. I stopped first at the services at Scotch Corner. All the ultra fast chargers were busy when I arrived, but there was a 50kW BP Pulse one which was available. I tried using it with my Electroverse card but it didn't charge. ZapMap says that it was out of service 7 days ago. By that time an ultra fast charger was available, so I used that to 80%.

By the time I got to near Troon, the charge was under 20% with a bit under an hour to spare before the last check in time for the ferry. The KIA SatNav said that was a BP Pulse 50kW charger on my route a few miles from the port at the junction of the A719 and A77. The map showed it in the car park of a café but I couldn't find it, and nothing is shown there on the BP Pulse app or Zapmap. There are two more ultra fast BP Pulse chargers a few miles away. I tried both of those using my Electroverse card and neither worked. At this point I have tried 5 chargers on the day and one has worked.

Nearby there was a pub with an AC 22kW charger which did work. I charged there for 20 minutes, going from 15% to 19% (my car only charges at 10kW on AC). Also in Troon there are some 50kW Charging Scotland chargers, but I had seen that one of those was out of action. This was in August. Since then some new chargers have come into use at the Morrisons near the port in Troon. I saw them as I drove past, but they were not in use. Zapmap also shows some ultra fast MFG chargers near there, which weren't listed when I looked.

On Arran, I was staying on Whiting Bay. The nearest chargers are in Lamlash a few miles away. There is a 50kW Charging Scotland one which I used one evening. There is a penalty fee if you stay there longer than 70 minutes. I fell asleep whilst I was there, but woke up in time. I used it again later in the week, as well as a quick topup at the one in Brodick.

For the return journey, I had been planning on using an ultra fast charger near the A1M, but there was an earlier stop for a toilet break and eye test in Barnard Castle. There was a "75kW" charger at the Morrisons, but that was shared when there were two cars charging, so I only got 37kW, so it took a bit longer, but I ended up with enough charge to get home.

I see. Tbh I think BP Pulse might be the issue here?

I've never had an issue with Tesla, Ionity, MFG, Be.ev or Evyee. I always aim to charge at 150kW or more chargers btw, as they generally have far better grid connections so they avoid the "shared speed" issue.

For example there are 24 Tesla ultra rapid near Penrith and also a huge number near Gretna.

Also looks like there is a big Ionity one near Ayr.

I think the key is to aim for on longer journeys "big" ultrarapid chargers with many bays, rather than small 50kW ones with one or two. I suspect the big sites get far faster repairs than the lonely BP Pulse ones. Plus obviously proper grid connections.

Given there are so many big sites on trunk roads, id recommend planning this way.

I do understand that small islands are a problem, but I reckon if you charged at ionity in Ayr you'd have filled the battery enough to not need to charge again.

Btw not discounting your experience, obviously poor and just trying to say how I've done 10k miles with no home charging and zero issues.

 

[trebor79]

It's because of return journeys where you don't want to charge at the destination. For example I live 92 miles from Heathrow- if I go to pick up friends and family. I don't want to wait 30 minutes at Heathrow and I don't want to call in to either Clackett Lane or Cobham services on the M25 which are the obvious en route chargers in either location. A 250 official range EV will struggle to make that trip especially in winter, an ice won't.

184 miles easily doable at motorway speeds in many EVs. And even if it did need a charge, it’s 5 minutes not 30 for that sort of distance.

 

[bspahh]

I see. Tbh I think BP Pulse might be the issue here?

I've never had an issue with Tesla, Ionity, MFG, Be.ev or Evyee. I always aim to charge at 150kW or more chargers btw, as they generally have far better grid connections so they avoid the "shared speed" issue.

For example there are 24 Tesla ultra rapid near Penrith and also a huge number near Gretna.

Also looks like there is a big Ionity one near Ayr.

I think the key is to aim for on longer journeys "big" ultrarapid chargers with many bays, rather than small 50kW ones with one or two. I suspect the big sites get far faster repairs than the lonely BP Pulse ones. Plus obviously proper grid connections.

Given there are so many big sites on trunk roads, id recommend planning this way.

I do understand that small islands are a problem, but I reckon if you charged at ionity in Ayr you'd have filled the battery enough to not need to charge again.

Btw not discounting your experience, obviously poor and just trying to say how I've done 10k miles with no home charging and zero issues.

I have a charger at home, so its rare that I use the same public charger twice. On a long journey I might be able to pick and choose where to charge, to get fast/cheap/nice places. Its easier to find a big charging site as well.

Google Streetview has a picture of the charger that I tried to find at the Smithy at Sandyford Toll on the A77

Its not shown on the BP Pulse app or map https://uk-chargers.bppulse.com/en
I don't know if my observation skills are lacking, as I certainly turned around in that car park, or if it has been removed. https://www.bppulse.com/en-gb/going-electric/buyer-funded-network-closure says they closed some of their old charging network, but I can't see that one on the list.

In general am reluctant to make detours to use a charger, unless its going to make my journey quicker.

At Troon, I had enough charge for what I needed. The charging was to add a bit of leeway, and I really didn't want to miss the check in time for the ferry. There was a line of cars in the standby queue who might then have taken my place.

 

[mrmartin]

No I understand, I think my point is I would definitely drive the extra mile to the next roundabout where there is a 350kW ionity rather than attempt to find that one. Assuming you have 800V architecture in your Kia (most new ones do) then you should be able to charge at >200kW. Even 10 minutes would give you many many miles of charge, vs a 50kW charger (even if it did exist!).

Even if you have 400V like my EV you still can pull 120kW on most which is dramatically faster.

 

[HSTEd]

I guess the way forward would be those BESS (Battery Energy Storage System) that BYD were showcasing recently with their 1.5 megawatt chargers. That somewhat bypasses any gird shortfall by supplementing it with batteries.

I think they would help a bit especially things like supermarket loading docks (where only a couple of delivery lorries visit per day), but service station chargers would seem likely to be in use at a high capacity factor. I don't know how much batteries can help there.

At a large site most of the spikes probably even out. Lots of lorries during the day on fast charges and even more lorries on slow charges overnight during the driver rest period.

 

[johncrossley]

Sainsbury's EV charging is sometimes well located near main roads and there are usually many chargers there. When I hired an EV I deliberately planned to stop near the one near the old Calcot Coachway on the M4.


(map of Sainsbury's charging locations from https://smartcharge.co.uk/locations)