West Midlands Trains "Destination Manchester" - will it happen?

[Starmill]

Has Northern Trains issued any formal response to that, stating how their services will be affected?

No but it has been noted above what would happen. One unit would do a Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Airport circuit making all stops, plus whatever extra moves are needed to ensure the opportunity for route refreshing of the line both ways via Styal, towards Heald Green and Manchester Airport.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Styal has Quarry Bank Mill (a National Trust site) and a women's prison.

Which currently has direct rail connection from Manchester Piccadilly and other Northern Trains Styal Line stations for people to use to visit those two places.

Incidentally, who on this thread realises the situation with buses in the Styal area since quite some time ago, the service 200, from Wilmslow to Manchester Airport via Quarry Bank Mill in Styal was discontinued.

 

[lowe1409]

Which currently has direct rail connection from Manchester Piccadilly and other Northern Trains Styal Line stations for people to use to visit those two places.

Incidentally, who on this thread realises the situation with buses in the Styal area since quite some time ago, the service 200, from Wilmslow to Manchester Airport via Quarry Bank Mill in Styal was discontinued.

You mean the fact the only bus service styal sees is a two hourly rail replacement on a Sunday? And that hardly counts. I don't know how many people using styal actually stay direct on the train. An awful lot of people alight at the airport for the slightly faster TPE service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You mean the fact the only bus service styal sees is a two hourly rail replacement on a Sunday? And that hardly counts. I don't know how many people using styal actually stay direct on the train. An awful lot of people alight at the airport for the slightly faster TPE service.

The reference inferred above was the absence of bus services in Styal for visitors to the women's prison at Styal and the National Trust property at Quarry Bank Mill who presently can access Styal station from either the Manchester or the Wilmslow directions with no ned for a change of train. Has that scenario been considered by either the proposed train operator or by Northern Trains?

 

[Farigiraf]

The reference inferred above was the absence of bus services in Styal for visitors to the women's prison at Styal and the National Trust property at Quarry Bank Mill who presently can access Styal station from either the Manchester or the Wilmslow directions with no ned for a change of train. Has that scenario been considered by either the proposed train operator or by Northern Trains?

Styal station has 28,000 annual entries/exits. For reference, Quarry Bank Mill had around 245,000 visitors last year, so when you add in those using Styal station for some other reason (to get to/from the prison, or because they live there) it becomes clear that the proportion of passengers travelling to either destination near Styal station by train is fairly small.

It's not an insignificant amount, but when changing for TPE at the Airport is 10 mins faster anyway, presumably so few people will be inconvenienced by this change (compared how many people will better off afterwards) that it's an easy decision to make. It'll be strange for Styal to have trains to Birmingham but not Manchester, but remember that just a few years ago Styal only had a few trains a day, so it's always been a low priority station for Northern, making this change less surprising. Styal could do with at least one bus route through, an hourly train being the only connection between Wilmslow and the Airport is strange.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Styal station has 28,000 annual entries/exits. For reference, Quarry Bank Mill had around 245,000 visitors last year, so when you add in those using Styal station for some other reason (to get to/from the prison, or because they live there) it becomes clear that the proportion of passengers travelling to either destination near Styal station by train is fairly small.

It's not an insignificant amount, but when changing for TPE at the Airport is 10 mins faster anyway, presumably so few people will be inconvenienced by this change (compared how many people will better off afterwards) that it's an easy decision to make. It'll be strange for Styal to have trains to Birmingham but not Manchester, but remember that just a few years ago Styal only had a few trains a day, so it's always been a low priority station for Northern, making this change less surprising. Styal could do with at least one bus route through, an hourly train being the only connection between Wilmslow and the Airport is strange.

The other scenario that I made mention of was those family visitors from the Manchester area to the womens' prison at Styal,

I have had discussions with a female prison officer who works there and she states that since no bus service from Manchester uses the road that passes through Styal, it is quite a long walk from the bus stops in Heald Green along Styal Road to the prison.

 

[Zomboid]

It's not as though Styal station is being closed. It'll still be entirely possible to get to/from Manchester with a change at the airport or Wilmslow.

If that 28k is accurate, Styal presently averages 77 passengers per day (90 if you assume that nobody uses the station on Sundays), whilst far more people than that will benefit from the additional connectivity.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's not as though Styal station is being closed. It'll still be entirely possible to get to/from Manchester with a change at the airport or Wilmslow.

If that 28k is accurate, Styal presently averages 77 passengers per day (90 if you assume that nobody uses the station on Sundays), whilst far more people than that will benefit from the additional connectivity.

Those 77 passengers do not have any bus alternative. Allowing for the fact that the referred-to connection at Wilmslow will not be an immediately timed connection, give me your journey comparison times from Styal via Wilmslow to Manchester compared with the current direct journey time from Styal to Manchester.

 

[jfollows]

As in
Styal-Manchester through train 43 minutes
Styal-Manchester via Wilmslow 39 minutes
Styal-Manchester changing at Manchester Airport 32 minutes
typical mid-day weekday services with connections longer than minimum connection times
Obviously if your departure time from Styal is fixed then it’s about waiting for the next train, these times assume you target a specific departure.

 

[Zomboid]

The bus is not really relevant because no change to that is proposed. And as has been shown, it's faster to change anyway, at least for passengers departing Styal.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The bus is not really relevant because no change to that is proposed. And as has been shown, it's faster to change anyway, at least for passengers departing Styal.

Of course it is relevant. There are no services buses running between Wilmslow - Styal- Manchester Airport.

 

[Zomboid]

But there is, and will continue to be an hourly train.

 

[lowe1409]

Of course it is relevant. There are no services buses running between Wilmslow - Styal- Manchester Airport.

What benefit could that bring over a train anyway, besides being a bit closer to the prison. In doesn't improve connectivity with Manchester as it is in the exact same place as the train terminates. But will now be significantly easier to reach from the south as it'll be accessible 7 days a week, and direct services at least as far as Crewe until 2200. Given the prison is staffed on a 24/7 basis, it'll mean workers commuting in the evening have an easier commute by rail.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Since Birmingham already has train services to its own airport and to Stansted Airport, why do they need train services to Manchester Airport?

 

[dk1]

Since Birmingham already has train services to its own airport and to Stansted Airport, why do they need train services to Manchester Airport?

So people like me can tick airside Wetherspoons without changing trains

 

[lowe1409]

Since Birmingham already has train services to its own airport and to Stansted Airport, why do they need train services to Manchester Airport?

Because Manchester is of a compatible size to Stansted at a similar distance, has a wider choice of flights and destinations, and Birmingham airport is tiny. This also negates the areas in between. Stoke and Wolverhampton will be gaining a direct service which I reckon will be well taken up.

 

[The Planner]

Since Birmingham already has train services to its own airport and to Stansted Airport, why do they need train services to Manchester Airport?

Its not for that purpose, consider it like a Cross Country service, serving different portions of the entire journey. Its more for airport connectivity from the Potts.

 

[The Mercian]

Since Birmingham already has train services to its own airport and to Stansted Airport, why do they need train services to Manchester Airport?

Because Manchester is the third largest airport in the UK and has lots of spare capacity. In addition as others have stated it starts to open up potential journeys for people from wider than just “the North”, Stoke on Trent for example.

 

[lowe1409]

Because Manchester is the third largest airport in the UK and has lots of spare capacity. In addition as others have stated it starts to open up potential journeys for people from wider than just “the North”, Stoke on Trent for example.

Stoke for example has 17,200 passengers already, and that's with a slower, indirect service that's not competitive with driving.

 

[thenorthern]

Will the "Destination Manchester" services replace the local Northern services to Manchester Airport from Crewe or just supplement them?

If they are supplementing them then where will they stop? Realistically Wilmslow is the only one I would they they would stop at. I know the Nottingham to Manchester Airport trains were rather odd as they ran non stop between Crewe and Mancehster Airport. Given Virgin Trains even stopped at Wilmslow I found it odd that Central Trains didn't stop at Wilmslow.

 

[lowe1409]

Will the "Destination Manchester" services replace the local Northern services to Manchester Airport from Crewe or just supplement them?

If they are supplementing them then where will they stop? Realistically Wilmslow is the only one I would they they would stop at. I know the Nottingham to Manchester Airport trains were rather odd as they ran non stop between Crewe and Mancehster Airport. Given Virgin Trains even stopped at Wilmslow I found it odd that Central Trains didn't stop at Wilmslow.

It's already been stated elsewhere including lnwr website that it is replacing the existing northern service. The trains will be calling at Styal, Wilmslow, Holmes Chapel and Sandbach, notibly skipping Alderley Edge which is a call on the current service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The trains will be calling at Styal, Wilmslow, Holmes Chapel and Sandbach, notibly skipping Alderley Edge which is a call on the current service.

Since the current Northern Trains service from Alderley Edge via the Styal Line that is said to be replaced does call at Manchester Airport, can you clarify the statement that you made, letting us know how people from Alderley Edge will access its current direct service call at Manchester Airport.

 

[Farigiraf]

Styal-Manchester via Wilmslow 39 minutes

Is this actually a valid route with a Manchester - Styal ticket? The combination of MIA/Wilmslow connections gives roughly 20/40 min intervals between Manchester and Styal, but since the route isn't within 3 miles of the most direct route, nor the fastest option, and starts off with you travelling away from the destination, I'd be surprised if it's actually valid as I can't see any easement involving this in the routeing guide document either.

By the way, although changing for TPE is faster northbound, if travelling from Manchester to Styal, the Northern service only has a 4 min turnaround, meaning the upcoming changes may turn a 25 min ride into a 35-40 minute one in that direction. It's certainly inconvenient to those 28k per year (and rising) but that doesn't overall make much of a difference regarding how viable the WMT service is - Styal isn't being closed so it's not a decision that's going to be regretted much in the future.

What is a problem is that it's skipping Alderley Edge while stopping at Holmes Chapel and Sandbach. I'm inclined to give WMT the benefit of the doubt - I don't know why it's being skipped and I'm sure there's some factor that apparently made it unviable - but since it's not a pathing issue if it's just taking over the current NT path, it makes very little sense. Alderley Edge - Manchester Airport by train was done 5,360 times last year, which is not a huge figure (note there's also a bus that runs every 1-2 hours) compared to how many people are doing the same journey by car, but if passenger stats was what determined whether a call makes sense or not, it'd also skip Sandbach and Holmes Chapel.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

letting us know how people from Alderley Edge will access its current direct service call at Manchester Airport.

Who says you're going to retain one? Alderley Edge may just be a loser in this situation, unfortunately.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The updated D&G Bus service 130 bus timetable issued by TfGM dated 1st September 2026 gives details of journeys from Alderley Edge to Manchester Airport with a 67 minute journey time running onc bus per hour.

 

[thenorthern]

Given the new services are skipping Chelford and Goostrey I think there is little risk Alderley Edge will lose it's current direct Manchester Airport service.

I am surprised they are calling at Styal given only a couple of years ago it had very little service.

 

[jfollows]

Styal to Manchester or vice versa is valid via Wilmslow, as as been discussed already in this thread I'm sure, because Network Rail moved Styal to be further from Manchester than it used to be by defining the mileage via Manchester Airport. As a result, the alternative route Styal-Wilmslow-Manchester is within 3 miles of the defined shortest route and is therefore a valid route for "any permitted" tickets, as most of them are.

Styal used to be omitted only because otherwise the turn-around times at Crewe were too short to comply with the timetable rules in the 2018 timetable (fiasco). Since the timetable revision this is no longer an issue so they might as well call there.

"Officially" it's 12.00 miles Manchester-Styal. It's 12.00+1.75 miles Manchester-Styal via Wilmslow. The fact that it's something like 7m41ch+10m72ch-8m45ch for the direct route, so 9m68ch by the direct route Manchester-Styal avoiding Manchester Airport is irrelevant.

 

[lowe1409]

Given the new services are skipping Chelford and Goostrey I think there is little risk Alderley Edge will lose it's current direct Manchester Airport service.

I am surprised they are calling at Styal given only a couple of years ago it had very little service.

Why couldnt the new service skip Alderley too? There's no reason why it has to call there. If LNWR deem it not worth their time, then so be it.

 

[jfollows]

Is this actually a valid route with a Manchester - Styal ticket? The combination of MIA/Wilmslow connections gives roughly 20/40 min intervals between Manchester and Styal, but since the route isn't within 3 miles of the most direct route, nor the fastest option, and starts off with you travelling away from the destination, I'd be surprised if it's actually valid as I can't see any easement involving this in the routeing guide document either.

As above, this isn’t true, it’s within 3 miles of the direct route as redefined.

 

[The Mercian]

From a personal perspective it will be a shame if LNWR do skip Alderley Edge as I do use it to get to the airport, the £2-£3 fare being infinitely cheaper than the £30 taxi. I’ll just have to get my wife to drop me at Wilmslow instead.

Though it may give an alternative to X Country for cheap fares down to Brum even if journeys will be longer.