Birmingham New Street the worst UK station?

[Falcon1200]

1-What are A and B exits?

Each platform at New Street is divided into A (Coventry) and B (Wolverhampton) ends, and short trains only occupy one part of the platform; Longer trains use the full platform. The A and B exits relate to the platform designations, the B end exits allow barrier-free access between all platforms whereas the A end exits do not - Not everyone knows that! The railway needs to make this clearer, perhaps by announcements on every train arriving at the station.

 

[xotGD]

Not everyone knows that!

And even fewer people know about the footbridge and exits at the extreme Wolverhampton end of the station, providing a crowd free route between platforms and a quicker route in the direction of the Mailbox. Just a pity it is exit only (except if the barriers are open).

 

[ricoblade]

I only use it to change from Reading-bound XC services to get to Bristol (and vice versa) and am completely confused as to why a lot of the retail outlets are the other side of the barriers and whether I'm allowd to access them.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Each platform at New Street is divided into A (Coventry) and B (Wolverhampton) ends, and short trains only occupy one part of the platform; Longer trains use the full platform. The A and B exits relate to the platform designations, the B end exits allow barrier-free access between all platforms whereas the A end exits do not - Not everyone knows that! The railway needs to make this clearer, perhaps by announcements on every train arriving at the station.

And, in my opinion, the boundary between A and B isn't clear. There is only the one footbridge that connects all platforms at the B end, but I've made the mistake of walking up the stairs/escalator at what seems to be the B end to find that it still takes me to the A end 'lounges'.
Using the B end footbridge makes it a long walk if you arrive on the South end of an Avanti and want to go to 8A for the Eastbound cross-city - am I the only traveller to do this? I would not think so. But, equally, leaving by the A end barriers for the low number platforms I don't find it's straightforward finding the entrance barriers for the middle numbers (eg platform 8). There's no signposting, as far as I can make out.

 

[JamesT]

And, in my opinion, the boundary between A and B isn't clear. There is only the one footbridge that connects all platforms at the B end, but I've made the mistake of walking up the stairs/escalator at what seems to be the B end to find that it still takes me to the A end 'lounges'.
Using the B end footbridge makes it a long walk if you arrive on the South end of an Avanti and want to go to 8A for the Eastbound cross-city - am I the only traveller to do this? I would not think so. But, equally, leaving by the A end barriers for the low number platforms I don't find it's straightforward finding the entrance barriers for the middle numbers (eg platform 8). There's no signposting, as far as I can make out.

There are signs all round the station, e.g. https://live.staticflickr.com/608/21391313949_f42fcd10bf.jpg (image showing signs with arrows to different sets of platforms)

 

[Sheridan]

For me, a large part of why I never feel completely comfortable at New Street is that the platforms aren’t in any way visible from the concourse. I find it very hard to orient myself as a result. This does apply to Euston as well, but as a terminus station I know exactly which way the tracks are pointing there.

I wonder how many non-terminus stations there are where the platforms aren’t at all visible from the concourse?

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder how many non-terminus stations there are where the platforms aren’t at all visible from the concourse?

Quite a few I guess, many of which will similarly be beneath surface level, eg City Thameslink, Old Street, etc.

However to chuck a few in, you can’t see the platforms from the main concourse at Nottingham, Leicester, Stevenage, and for a bit of fun I’ll throw in Mill Hill Broadway.

 

[py_megapixel]

I wonder how many non-terminus stations there are where the platforms aren’t at all visible from the concourse?

You can't see the through platforms (13 and 14) at Manchester Piccadilly from either the main concourse or the P13/14 waiting lounge. A few years ago they even put up vinyl decals that completely block the view out from the glass walkway between the waiting lounge and the platform.

This contributes to the feeling that the through platforms are a completely separate station from the rest of Piccadilly. On first impression, it can feel like these platforms are at a higher level than the rest the station: you remember leaving the station concourse, which you now can't see, up a travelator, and you can see the big drop down to Fairfield Street below. If you walk to the southern end of the platform, though, you realise this isn't the case as you can see the ends of all the other platforms are at the same level.

 

[Sheridan]

Quite a few I guess, many of whihc will similarly be benetah surface level, eg City Thameslink, Old Street, etc.

Yes, I hadn’t really thought that through!

 

[Hadders]

Quite a few I guess, many of which will similarly be beneath surface level, eg City Thameslink, Old Street, etc.

However to chuck a few in, you can’t see the platforms from the main concourse at Nottingham, Leicester, Stevenage, and for a bit of fun I’ll throw in Mill Hill Broadway.

You could see the platforms from the concourse at Stevenage until someone decided to vinyl the windows with adverts encouraging people to buy tickets using the Thameslink app the same week that Project Oval launched...

Concourse isn't a word I usually associate with Mill Hill Boradway! Always feels a bit edgy whenever I use the station.

 

[Nottingham59]

There are signs all round the station, e.g. https://live.staticflickr.com/608/21391313949_f42fcd10bf.jpg (image showing signs with arrows to different sets of platforms)

There are lots of signs for people going from the Street to the trains, but no effective signage for people coming off trains and looking for another platform. For instance from 9A to 4B, people getting off a train on platform 9A might find a departure screen telling them that their next train goes from 4B, but the signage after that talks about Green Lounges and Blue Lounges etc. with no indication of which way to they should go. It's only after you leave the paid area that you get any indication of where to head to find platform 4B

 

[Dr Hoo]

There are lots of signs for people going from the Street to the trains, but no effective signage for people coming off trains and looking for another platform. For instance from 9A to 4B, people getting off a train on platform 9A might find a departure screen telling them that their next train goes from 4B, but the signage after that talks about Green Lounges and Blue Lounges etc. with no indication of which way to they should go. It's only after you leave the paid area that you get any indication of where to head to find platform 4B

The signage at the ‘b’ end (Red Lounge/Zone) says ‘Access to all platforms’ or similar by the escalators, doesn’t it?
I have already illustrated typical signage at the ‘a’ end, directing interchange passengers to the opposite end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 22:50 ==

You could see the platforms from the concourse at Stevenage until someone decided to vinyl the windows with adverts encouraging people to buy tickets using the Thameslink app the same week that Project Oval launched...

Sadly providing panoramic overhead views of electrified tracks with trains whizzing through at 100mph or more is not to be encouraged.

There have been at least two extremely distressing events at overbridges in the area in fairly recent times.

 

[Hadders]

Sadly providing panoramic overhead views of electrified tracks with trains whizzing through at 100mph or more is not to be encouraged.

There have been at least two extremely distressing events at overbridges in the area in fairly recent times.

It's totally enclosed, inside the concourse building.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It's totally enclosed, inside the concourse building.

? It was you who mentioned that windows had been covered in vinyls in #130.

 

[AlterEgo]

The concealment of the station's function and the inability to see the tracks or trains is also a shortcoming although it would have been difficult to accommodate in any design. Modern airports are almost invariably designed so passengers can see aircraft because it reduces anxiety and acts as a psychological anchor for passengers, reassuring them they are making progress through the airport.

 

[Harpo]

Modern airports are almost invariably designed so passengers can see aircraft because it reduces anxiety and acts as a psychological anchor for passengers, reassuring them they are making progress through the airport.

‘Modern Airports’? Where you annoyingly zig-zag six or seven times the direct distance at windowless check-ins, security and passport control and then trudge two to three times the direct distance through the professional hustlers in the bazaar duty free to get a peek at the outside world during a 60-90 minute confinement. (Yes. I do dislike air travel!)

At least when you get to the transport bit at an airport, you emerge into daylight whereas at New Street you descend into Hades, an unremittingly dark and grim train cellar.

 

[Falcon1200]

I wonder how many non-terminus stations there are where the platforms aren’t at all visible from the concourse?

At both Glasgow Central and Queen Street stations the Low Level platforms are not visible from the concourse, and moreover are at right angles to the terminal platforms!

 

[Merle Haggard]

There are signs all round the station, e.g. https://live.staticflickr.com/608/21391313949_f42fcd10bf.jpg (image showing signs with arrows to different sets of platforms)

I'll re-check next time I go (if I'm not in a hurry due to late running trains, situation normal), but I'm pretty sure that none of the ones you illustrate face you when you come through the barriers. They face the entrances to the station, which is in the opposite direction.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I'll re-check next time I go (if I'm not in a hurry due to late running trains, situation normal), but I'm pretty sure that none of the ones you illustrate face you when you come through the barriers. They face the entrances to the station, which is in the opposite direction.

The idea is that if you approach the dreaded barriers (after arrival on a train) you probably want the Way Out/Exit to undertake activities in Birmingham. (There are toilets in each of the Blue, Green and Red Lounges if you with to relieve yourself before doing this.)
If you want to Interchange you are encouraged to achieve this via ‘b’ end/Red Lounge, within which all platforms are clearly indicated (as well as two more sets of barriers if you need the Way Out/Exit at that end).

 

[The exile]

We have heard a lot about 'way finding' and 'clear signage', and some people not relating to maps. However, I still feel that, to put it bluntly, some folk just seem to blunder around, oblivious to signage, and subconsciously 'following the crowd'.
I took this photograph as I arrived at New Street earlier this year. It happens to be on Platform 1a but the other 'a' end platforms seem to be similar:
(The description is that it shows stairs indicated as "Way Out", an international "Exit" pictogram, the phrase "All exits via Blue Lounge" and also a back-lit standard green Emergency Exit pictogram. On the adjacent wall is a large sign with an arrow back along the platform to the 'b' end and the legend "All Passengers Please use B end exit for access to all other platforms via the Red Lounge".)
What is the problem for a normally-sighted passenger here?
View attachment 211530

“Last time I used this station I used the green lounge so this sign doesn’t apply to me - only those who need to access a platform via the red lounge , whoever they are”.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 09:03 ==

At both Glasgow Central and Queen Street stations the Low Level platforms are not visible from the concourse, and moreover are at right angles to the terminal platforms!

The difference being that in general you go down one set of steps to go in one direction and the other one to go the other way and that’s it. Can’t remember if there are tube-style route diagrams at the top of each, but there easily could be.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The idea is that if you approach the dreaded barriers (after arrival on a train) you probably want the Way Out/Exit to undertake activities in Birmingham. (There are toilets in each of the Blue, Green and Red Lounges if you with to relieve yourself before doing this.)
If you want to Interchange you are encouraged to achieve this via ‘b’ end/Red Lounge, within which all platforms are clearly indicated (as well as two more sets of barriers if you need the Way Out/Exit at that end).

Unfortunately for the unwary the access to the only bridge that connects all platforms is not distinguished from others by signs at platform level. As far as I remember, all the platform exists (including the 'A' end) are signed to show access to all other platforms (apart, obviously from the opposite face). You can walk North to what you might well think is the 'B' end but the stairs/escalators still take you back to the restricted 'lounges'. The signs are truthful in that you can access all platforms but misleading in that you cannot do so quickly. Similarly, if you miss and pass the access to the 'proper' B end bridge and continue there's another footbridge, much more obvious, that performs the same purpose but has a lot of steps and gives the impression, by an air of neglect, that it's not for the public.

The suggestion that passengers changing trains use the 'B' end has been fitful. I visited on its first day, and, when I asked a proud member of Network Rail staff if it was possible to transfer from 4 (from Northampton) to 11 (for the west) without going through 2 barriers I was told firmly 'No!'. But they were in the lounge at the 'A' end.

It seems to me that New Street was planned as a destination (with a lot of shops) rather than an interchange. I expect that, somewhere in the mountain of statistics produced, there's lists of 'interchange' passengers by station; I wonder where New Street stands in a list in order of numbers but I can make a guess ...

 

[Captain Bigwig]

Arguments about signage miss something important, which is that wayfinding is overwhelmingly about contextual clues, and only a very small amount about signage. If a passenger has to stop and actively read a sign to find out which way to go (which is sometimes unavoidable) this introduces extra friction (and therefore stress) into a journey. The aim of wayfinding and layout design should be to make navigation as seamless (and brainless) as possible.

Almost all the complaints at Birmingham seem to come from people changing trains who know they need to change platforms, go up a set of stairs or an escalator and find themselves in one of the "A" end lounges.
There are then two problems:

1) people finding barriers and assuming they must have gone the wrong way or made a mistake because they weren't expecting to find barriers

2) people knowing which way they want to go, walking that direction and then finding a perspex barrier

Problem (1) causes stress and anxiety because people aren't sure if they're allowed to use their tickets to go out and in again to change platforms. You are, and it's expected, but it's not made clear to people anywhere

Problem (2) seems to be more of a problem in the green zone. In the blue zone the ticket barriers are close to the southern set of walls, but in the green zone it's possible to walk north in the direction of the blue zone (past Leon Burger) before realising you've reached a dead end and have to double back on yourself.

I think the best solution would be big signs in the Blue and Green lounges saying:

Platforms 6-12
Please exit through barriers

 

[Bletchleyite]

New St I don't actually mind these days, though it used to be awful ("the pub is c**p, the loos cost cash and the signage is appalling" - MJ Hibbett and the Validators, who described it as "hell on earth" and said it "makes Hades look like Leicester", though I think based on their origins they were probably being overly kind to said east Midlands city ).

Now, the pub is no longer described in that way (it's a fairly decent 'Spoons), the loos no longer cost cash (and are sensibly inside the gateline which reduces vandalism, if you're outside and need one there is always said 'Spoons) but the signage IS still appalling.

The layout is, I accept, a bit clumsy. It has to be that way because you couldn't have a full A end gateline without losing the main exits on that side which are easily the busiest. It's a converted building (a former car park) so that caused a bit of a limit on what could be done - to provide full interchange at that end you would need a mezzanine level between the platforms and the concourse. Remember that the B end is the former platform tunnel from the previous station, not a new build.

The stench when a Voyager visits, well, we know how to fix that, and it involves tin cans and razor blades

The main thing that needs fixing though is the signage. The colour lounge thing is really not very helpful and confuses everyone. I think I'd replace it with signage that just shows which platforms are directly accessible via which stairs as you would get at any other station (e.g. Manchester Piccadilly which would presumably say 1-11 and 13-14 via the footbridge, 12 only via the concourse).

The other option which may be of merit would be to sign the A end as exit only and the B end as entry and interchange only, though it would result in more people moving down busy platforms so may also not work safely. Obviously you'd keep one exit gate at the B and just in case to save people walking round.

 

[mmh]

Regardless of how something is designed, if you've felt the need to name things blue/red/green/A-end/B-end, you've failed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regardless of how something is designed, if you've felt the need to name things blue/red/green/A-end/B-end, you've failed.

Plenty of stations have A ends and B ends of platforms. It is used in any setting where multiple trains can be in one platform at once and there is nothing wrong with it.

The colour lounges are a failed concept but they aren't necessary or indeed in any way helpful.

 

[Nottingham59]

I think the best solution would be big signs in the Blue and Green lounges saying:

Platforms 6-12
Please exit through barriers

This. There is* no signage visible from the inside of the Blue and Green lounges for people who have come up from the platforms. It would be a simple thing to do.

* Or at least not when I last interchanged at New St

 

[Harpo]

Plenty of stations have A ends and B ends of platforms. It is used in any setting where multiple trains can be in one platform at once and there is nothing wrong with it.

Agreed on A & B platforms but New Street extends that to A & B exits with totally different outcomes and wildly differing degrees of customer friendliness on arrival up at ground level.

Even down below at shothole level, there’s the added scenario of arriving at A end and being advised to go to the B end for interchange and needing to fight your way along a crowded platform to do so.

It’s an epic fail.

 

[py_megapixel]

This. There is* no signage visible from the inside of the Blue and Green lounges for people who have come up from the platforms. It would be a simple thing to do.

* Or at least not when I last interchanged at New St

I agree.

This is a place where, as I mentioned above, I think a big overhead sign over the full length of the barrier line - as at London Bridge - would be an excellent addition. Makes it completely clear where you can get to by going through that particular barrier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s an epic fail.

I think you're really overtalking that. It's not perfect, but the huge disruption to the entire national network that would have resulted from a full rebuild (necessary to get a mezzanine level in properly) wouldn't have been worth it.

It might be worth adding some sort of footbridge between the two A sides which could probably be squashed in. But only might.

 

[py_megapixel]

Incidentally, Network Rail's online map of the station is a truly awful bit of web design: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/rail-...new-street/birmingham-new-street-station-map/

Nothing is marked on the map except the brand names of the shops and restaurants (why are these given more prominence the anything else?).

To find anything else, such as the toilets, or the access to a specific platform, you have to click at random on any of several dozen unlabelled rectangles, wait for a 3-second animated zoom in (meaning you've also now lost your position on the map) and then read the text that appears in a popup. This means the map is basically only useful to someone who already knows the layout of the station, making it a bit pointless.

The PDF version, linked from the same page, is much better. The web version seems to be a case of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"