London Victoria to Brighton ticket valid from London Bridge?

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Hi all,

Quick one as per title - is an off peak return from London Victoria (specifically) to Brighton valid from/to London Bridge instead?

Thanks!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@BankQuayLowLvl. How much was the ticket? If it's a £47.70 Off Peak Return (route "Any Permitted") then these are normally issued to/from Brighton, with an origin of London Terminals, if so, then London Bridge on the way back shouldn't be a problem.

 

[dastocks]

You need to give more detail regarding routing and period of validity because the options vary by day of week. The default assumption is that if the ticket says Victoria on it that's what it means.

It's often cheaper to buy a couple of returns from Brighton to London and discard the unused portions, especially at weekends.

 

[Haywain]

I suspect the OP has the return portion of a Brighton to London Victoria Off Peak Return, priced at £46.40. There is no equivalent ticket in the opposite direction.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I suspect the OP has the return [portion of a Brighton to London Victoria Off Peak Return, priced at £46.40.

You may well be right. Can this be excessed to the £47.70 fare?

 

[Haywain]

Can this be excessed to the £47.70 fare?

I don't see that there is any clear entitlement to that as it is not a change of route. It's not really overdistance either, so the basis for an excess isn't obvious, but even if it was it could prove challenging to obtain. I have no idea whether there is any 'custom and practice' around such things though.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, the workaround if that's not possible might be just to get an appropriate ticket or tickets between London Bridge and East Croydon? (£4.40 if Off Peak Single + Contactless payment used).

 

[grove]

Hi all,

Quick one as per title - is an off peak return from London Victoria (specifically) to Brighton valid from/to London Bridge instead?

Thanks!

It feels like this is an unnecessary fare complication. Why does Brighton to Victoria, London Bridge or Blackfriars, for that matter, need to have different fares? Is there some lost revenue issue here, especially when all these routes are ultimately the same company?

It doesn't answer the OP's question, but it would be good to know if it is likely to change anytime soon.

 

[MrJeeves]

For the benefit of OP (@BankQuayLowLvl), you may wish to buy a ticket to the other side of London, such as Kentish Town for £44.80, in future.

These allow you to travel into Victoria, including on Gatwick Express, or on Thameslink anywhere between London Bridge and St Pancras, and cost less than the ticket to Victoria.

They also come with a cross-London transfer included, but the validity of using this to make a transfer irrelevant to the journey being made is disputed (though my view is that it's fine).

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks, at face value with no fees. Every British rail fare shown, railcard discounts included.

www.brfares.com

It feels like this is an unnecessary fare complication. Why does Brighton to Victoria, London Bridge or Blackfriars, for that matter, need to have different fares? Is there some lost revenue issue here, especially when all these routes are ultimately the same company?

It comes back to the previous split franchise between Southern and First Capital Connect prior to the merging of the Thameslink, Southern, Gatwick Express and Great Northern franchises.

It's been discussed to death on the forum, but the simple rundown is that it was planned to reform fares across the new merged franchise, but the reality is that this could not be done without increasing fares for some passengers, or losing revenue from others, and eventually the lesser of two evils was chosen to simply retain the existing pricing structure for the foreseeable future.

See some other posts on the forum, such as:

London to Brighton returns

I know this must have been discussed somewhere but just for some clarity: a. Why are there two ticket types costing same amount of money... and b. The million pound question: Can I use either of them to/from Victoria? or even on Gatwick Express? Thanking you:)

www.railforums.co.uk

GTR admits to operating their four brands

GTR sent ...Govia Thameslink Railway Limited - which operates four brands: Thameslink, Great Northern, Southern and Gatwick Express - will transfer to a new company, Thameslink Southern Great Northern Limited (TSGNL). Although the legal operator is changing, you'll continue to see the same...

www.railforums.co.uk

Collective competition claim against Govia Thameslink Railway

This press release hit the newswires yesterday: COLLECTIVE COMPETITION CLAIM AGAINST GOVIA THAMESLINK RAILWAY FOR OVERCHARGING RAIL PASSENGERS ON BRIGHTON MAINLINE SINCE OCTOBER 2015 London 6 July 2021 – An application to commence an opt-out collective action (“Claim”) was launched in the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[BankQuayLowLvl]

Hi all, thanks for your contributions. Screenshot of part of ticket attached - my partner was bought this by her work, and was denied passage through the barriers at London Bridge this morning (having mistakenly thought the journey was booked to start from there) and had to buy a new single ticket. Trying to work out whether the ticket should have been valid and subsequently whether any part is refundable.

The ticket is an Off Peak Return, Route Any Permitted, and cost £30.90 with Railcard so £46.35 full price (assumption).

 

[Hadders]

That ticket is not valid at London Bridge, it's only valid from London Victoria to Brighton.

For a ticket to be valid from London Bridge it needs to say, London Bridge, London Thameslink or London Terminals or be from a station north of London that involves a cross-London connection.

 

[Deerfold]

Hi all, thanks for your contributions. Screenshot of part of ticket attached - my partner was bought this by her work, and was denied passage through the barriers at London Bridge this morning (having mistakenly thought the journey was booked to start from there) and had to buy a new single ticket. Trying to work out whether the ticket should have been valid and subsequently whether any part is refundable.

The ticket is an Off Peak Return, Route Any Permitted, and cost £30.90 with Railcard so £46.35 full price (assumption).

Were they told they'd need a new ticket to Brighton or just East Croydon?

 

[Watershed]

A new ticket to East Croydon is all that she should have been sold/told to buy. There was certainly no need to buy a new ticket all the way to Brighton. If that's what she was told to buy there's an overcharging complaint in order.

 

[OscarH]

There really is no reason for this to exist in 2026 in my opinion, they're all part of GTR/TSGN and Victoria is usually the more expensive route anyway

 

[MrJeeves]

There really is no reason for this to exist in 2026 in my opinion, they're all part of GTR/TSGN and Victoria is usually the more expensive route anyway

I'd like to keep my Thameslink Only pricing, please.

In all honesty, I expect GTR to take Oval as an excuse to reform these fares.

 

[grove]

Quite agree. The distance from Victoria to East Croydon is practically the same as London Bridge to East Croydon and at peak times a single is £8.50 on both routes. It is this sort of thing that puts the occasional rail user off rail travel. Designed to confuse and impose a penalty. Perhaps one day there will be an AI interface between the fares database and the customer to ensure you always get the lowest fare for the chosen route.

 

[OscarH]

I'd like to keep my Thameslink Only pricing, please.

In all honesty, I expect GTR to take Oval as an excuse to reform these fares.

I'm not trying to take the the cheap fare away - even though it's stupid and confusing we both know any simplification would be removing the cheap fare.

The more expensive fare should be valid to all relevant London Terminals though at least!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The more expensive fare should be valid to all relevant London Terminals though at least!

Are you saying that it isn't, at present?

 

[dastocks]

Are you saying that it isn't, at present?

The Southern website I use makes it quite hard to request the Brighton - London Terminals return the OP might have thought they had, and I would be surprised if a company ticket portal allowed it to be booked at all. When I was travelling on business from Brighton I used to book my own tickets and then claim back the cost because I always got a far better deal than was possible via the corporate booking system.

The off-peak day return Brighton - London Terminals any permitted route exists but it usually costs more than the equivalent Travelcard so that's what people buy.

 

[MrJeeves]

The off-peak day return Brighton - London Terminals any permitted route exists but it usually costs more than the equivalent Travelcard so that's what people buy.

...or a ticket to Kentish Town!

 

[talldave]

...or a ticket to Kentish Town!

Trying to persuade corporate ticket purchasers to buy a ticket to somewhere the employee's not going can be be challenging, even if the explanation is "it's cheaper"!

 

[marshlinker]

A new ticket to East Croydon is all that she should have been sold/told to buy. There was certainly no need to buy a new ticket all the way to Brighton. If that's what she was told to buy there's an overcharging complaint in order.

I think that if the train she was intending to use stopped at Norwood Junction she only needed a ticket to there. Theres valid routes via Crystal Palace for Brighton to Vic.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think that if the train she was intending to use stopped at Norwood Junction she only needed a ticket to there. Theres valid routes via Crystal Palace for Brighton to Vic.

It's possible, but unlikely, as there's no direct trains from London Bridge to Brighton which actually do call at Norwood Junction.

 

[8ace]

It's possible, but unlikely, as there's no direct trains from London Bridge to Brighton which actually do call at Norwood Junction.

There's one on early sunday usually.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There's one on early sunday usually.

The only one of well over 400 London Bridge to Brighton trains per week that does actually call there? Albeit not this coming Sunday. O.k. I'll give you that one. Doesn't particularly help the OP!

 

[yorkie]

Hi all, thanks for your contributions. Screenshot of part of ticket attached - my partner was bought this by her work, and was denied passage through the barriers at London Bridge this morning (having mistakenly thought the journey was booked to start from there) and had to buy a new single ticket. Trying to work out whether the ticket should have been valid and subsequently whether any part is refundable.

The ticket is an Off Peak Return, Route Any Permitted, and cost £30.90 with Railcard so £46.35 full price (assumption).

Is there an update on this, and what ticket did they make her buy?

As stated above, she should only have been made to buy a ticket as far as East Croydon and no further than that; if GTR have charged more, then you should ask the matter to be escalated as a serious overcharging matter, ask for a refund and escalate the matter to the Rail Ombudsman if it's not resolved to her satisfaction.