Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
It's a shame that there isn't any joined-up thinking though. The self-checkout will ask if you want a receipt and will let you select no. You then need the receipt you didn't get in order to leave the shop.
I have never seen a situation where these gates were in place where the machine was not set to issue a receipt without asking. Other than Morrisons, which have gates but you don't scan your receipt, it looks like either facial recognition is used for these or the staff are opening them with a remote control.
It's a shame that there isn't any joined-up thinking though. The self-checkout will ask if you want a receipt and will let you select no. You then need the receipt you didn't get in order to leave the shop.
I've spent years of my working life dealing with losses caused by checkouts in supermarkets (all varieties - staffed, self-scan and smartshop).
If you pay using a contactless card then one of the security features is that you'll be asked to validate your PIN from time to time. I could go into more detail about how often this happens but it's not relevent here
It's easy to tap your card, thinking you've paid and walk off with your shopping but not notice that you needed to enter your PIN. Thsi is called a contactless walk-off and is quite common. If you use Goole Pay or Apple pay you don't have to validate your PIN because your phone authenticates the payment through face recognotion or biomentrics
Supermarkets have increasingly moved to a self service model at checkouts. Up to 80% of transaction volume is self service these days and this is increasing.
Increasing volume of self service transactions means that losses go up. Contactless walk-offs is one of the things that drives this, but there are lots of other things that cause this as well
But the labour saving is much, much more than the increase in stock loss. The checkout area of a large out of town supermarket would've had 30 or so staffed checkouts 30 years ago. Now there's probably no more than five and a handful of staff supervising the self checkout areas. That's a massive reduction in staffing costs
Why has staffing been reduced. Quite simply the cost of employing staff has risen significantly:
Minimum wage increases
Employers National Insurance increases
Apprentership Levy
Increased pension contributions
Increased holiday and sick pay
I could go on...
Supermarkets do try various security measures in the checkout areas to keep a lid on losses. Not everything works and it'll always be an evolving situation. Some things I've seen:
Warning signage
CCTV 'mirror monitors'
Exit barriers
Random rescans for people using smartshop handsets
Weighing trolleys to identify whether what was in the trolley was consistent with what had been scanned
Various iterations of video analytics
Displaying a 'nudge' on the screen if an item hasn't been scanned
Identifying people who have spent too little time in the checkout area
There is no golden bullet - if ther ewas supermarkets would've sorted it years ago. It's a game of 'cat and mouse'
I have never seen a situation where these gates were in place where the machine was not set to issue a receipt without asking. Other than Morrisons, which have gates but you don't scan your receipt, it looks like either facial recognition is used for these or the staff are opening them with a remote control.
Our Tesco has them as well. I'm yet to figure out exactly the point of them as as far as I can tell they're just automatic. I doubt its facial recognition as I've been through without buying anything or using the kiosk instead. The only purpose I can think they serve is to slow people down.
The amount of time and labour required to scan a receipt at a barrier is to all intents and purposes zero. Like tapping in on a bus I can do it without even breaking stride.
I generally take the path of least resistance especially at a store I plan to use frequently, but if I'm likely never returning then I refuse to "scan a receipt on a barrier" especially when that requirement is rarely disclosed in advance. As far as I'm concerned the goods are mine as soon as the payment is complete and the store has no right to detain me.
Our Tesco has them as well. I'm yet to figure out exactly the point of them as as far as I can tell they're just automatic. I doubt its facial recognition as I've been through without buying anything or using the kiosk instead. The only purpose I can think they serve is to slow people down.
The theory is the barriers are a deterrent. They won't deter everyone but they deter some, although industry research I was involved in a few years ago suggested they weren't effective and the retailer I was working for at the time decided not to install any more. One of the issues is the gates have to be like wide gates at railway stations because people are pushing trolleys and often have others with them using one receipt to exit, ie open and close slowly. This gives people the oppotyinutu to tailgate.
Our Tesco has them as well. I'm yet to figure out exactly the point of them as as far as I can tell they're just automatic. I doubt its facial recognition as I've been through without buying anything or using the kiosk instead. The only purpose I can think they serve is to slow people down.
I was involved in some trials a few years ago, it's not facial recognotion but it was possible to detect how long someone had been in the checkout area for. If a person hadn't been in the checkout area for a set period of time then they were denied exit. The theory was to stop people simply walking out without first having at least visited a checkout. The technology worked but the problem was it was too easy to tailgate another shopper through the barrier.
As I said earlier the purpose of the barriers is to deter - them might not deter you but they will deter some. They are one tool in the toolbox.
I was involved in some trials a few years ago, it's not facial recognotion but it was possible to detect how long someone had been in the checkout area for. If a person hadn't been in the checkout area for a set period of time then they were denied exit. The theory was to stop people simply walking out without first having at least visited a checkout.
Ours must do something different unless they somehow track how long you’ve been in the shop in general for as it has no issue with me walking straight through after using the kiosk when there’s a long queue elsewhere and I just want a meal deal. Indeed, people are directed to leave that way as there’s one way gates at the entrance.
Keep in mind that there are two different types of barriers under discussion. The ones in the larger supermarkets tend to be the "slow people down" type that will generally open for anyone. Then in the likes of Lidl, Primark, etc. you have gates where you have to scan a barcode on your receipt to get them to open. With the latter type you the till will always issue a receipt, at least in my experience.
Worth pointing out that staffing and shrinkage is a bit of a balance. While customers pinch stuff so do staff and reducing staff numbers means less stuff pinched by them even if its balanced to a point by more customers pinching things instead............
My local Lidl has the gate/ barcode system, and it works fine, but there is always someone on hand, either staff or security if you need the gate to be opened, if the barcode won't scan, or you're just looking and haven't purchased anything,
I have twice, recently, walked away from a self-service checkout without paying although in both cases without my shopping too (no theft was involved!). The first time the machine kept asking me to place the item I had just scanned in the bagging area - Which I had already done. The second time the machine charged me full price for what should have been a Meal Deal. In both instances I could see no way to overcome the problem, nor, crucially, were there staff anywhere near to assist. So I left the shop and the shopping got left at the checkout.
Our Tesco has them as well. I'm yet to figure out exactly the point of them as as far as I can tell they're just automatic. I doubt its facial recognition as I've been through without buying anything or using the kiosk instead. The only purpose I can think they serve is to slow people down.
Like on the railway barriers don't show you've paid for everything. They are one tool in the tool box.
Whether in a supermarket or on the railway, there is no one method that can conclusively make sure that everyone has paid for everything. If there was it would have been put in place years ago.
I've spent years of my working life dealing with losses caused by checkouts in supermarkets (all varieties - staffed, self-scan and smartshop).
If you pay using a contactless card then one of the security features is that you'll be asked to validate your PIN from time to time. I could go into more detail about how often this happens but it's not relevent here
It's easy to tap your card, thinking you've paid and walk off with your shopping but not notice that you needed to enter your PIN. Thsi is called a contactless walk-off and is quite common. If you use Goole Pay or Apple pay you don't have to validate your PIN because your phone authenticates the payment through face recognotion or biomentrics
Supermarkets have increasingly moved to a self service model at checkouts. Up to 80% of transaction volume is self service these days and this is increasing.
Increasing volume of self service transactions means that losses go up. Contactless walk-offs is one of the things that drives this, but there are lots of other things that cause this as well
But the labour saving is much, much more than the increase in stock loss. The checkout area of a large out of town supermarket would've had 30 or so staffed checkouts 30 years ago. Now there's probably no more than five and a handful of staff supervising the self checkout areas. That's a massive reduction in staffing costs
Why has staffing been reduced. Quite simply the cost of employing staff has risen significantly:
Minimum wage increases
Employers National Insurance increases
Apprentership Levy
Increased pension contributions
Increased holiday and sick pay
I could go on...
Supermarkets do try various security measures in the checkout areas to keep a lid on losses. Not everything works and it'll always be an evolving situation. Some things I've seen:
Warning signage
CCTV 'mirror monitors'
Exit barriers
Random rescans for people using smartshop handsets
Weighing trolleys to identify whether what was in the trolley was consistent with what had been scanned
Various iterations of video analytics
Displaying a 'nudge' on the screen if an item hasn't been scanned
Identifying people who have spent too little time in the checkout area
There is no golden bullet - if ther ewas supermarkets would've sorted it years ago. It's a game of 'cat and mouse'
Sainsbury's SmartShop always used to be a mess with Local branches because of the products that either had no barcode at all or that had to be scanned a few times to get them into the basket (item not recognised etc).
This has improved a lot recent years it appears. Most things are now adding to to the basket correctly and actual barcode are in more places on shelf edge labels. I think a handful of things remain quite difficult to input accurately, in some Locals there are Krispy Kreme doughnuts which are quite awkward to get right.
I don't use SmartShop at all unless it's necessary to buy something I want on my Nectar Price. Sometimes I have to pay for part of my shopping at a self serve till and have already paid for a part of it in the app using SmartShop, if I've got some personalised prices but also want something that I've been unable to get into the SmartShop basket. That one must make me look like I'm shoplifting 100%! I do take extra care to make sure I've paid for everything there.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Have done it, twice, at the same local independent cafe. First time I realised about 5 mins later so went back (so embarrassed) and paid. Second time the owner mentoned my aberration on my next visit, but when I asked to pay back my debt (having already paid for this latest visit), she point blank refused! I do know the owner though and she’s lovely
On the café theme, one Pret I know, the staff seem to have been trained to say "Thank you, enjoy. Next please." literally immediately on your contactless payment tap. A few of them say it before you tap even, as you reach for it. Some people then move away from the counter immediately and I've had to pause a couple of times to look back at the screen to see if my payment was actually successful. I'm pretty sure my transactions matched up there but I'm also fairly sure I've seen someone leave whose tap was declined (the "contactless walk off" mentioned above).
I suspect they've probably decided that the risk of long queues / slower throughput preventing people coming back is greater to their business than the occasional losses from declined card payments. I don't mind it at all as I like being served more quickly, but I do wonder if some customers don't feel a little dismissed by them saying next please like that.
I generally take the path of least resistance especially at a store I plan to use frequently, but if I'm likely never returning then I refuse to "scan a receipt on a barrier" especially when that requirement is rarely disclosed in advance. As far as I'm concerned the goods are mine as soon as the payment is complete and the store has no right to detain me.
My local Lidl has recently installed self-scan machines with receipt scanning to exit the barrier. It's a big improvement when making small shops (not more being stuck in long queues), and the checkout screen is really clear about needing to take the receipt issued and scan it on the way out of the checkout area. The store is not detaining me, and the receipt can (as before) go straight in the bin before I leave the building. The only person detained is someone who hasn't paid for their purchases.
Keep in mind that there are two different types of barriers under discussion. The ones in the larger supermarkets tend to be the "slow people down" type that will generally open for anyone. Then in the likes of Lidl, Primark, etc. you have gates where you have to scan a barcode on your receipt to get them to open. With the latter type you the till will always issue a receipt, at least in my experience.
Does Primark have these now? I've used Primark lately but not noticed them as I always click and collect from a separate desk. I do wonder how much stock theft there is.
Does Primark have these now? I've used Primark lately but not noticed them as I always click and collect from a separate desk. I do wonder how much stock theft there is.
All the Primark's I have been to with self-service tills have been scan the receipt to exit.
Our local Lidl has now had exit barriers installed for the self-checkouts (previously there was only an entry barrier like our local Tesco and Sainsbury's) and at the same time had had all new self-service checkouts installed, with larger portrait screens, although they only use half of it at the moment (the other half just has a Lidl background).
All print either a full receipt if asked or a small receipt that's only used to exit, with minimal information on it.
Does Primark have these now? I've used Primark lately but not noticed them as I always click and collect from a separate desk. I do wonder how much stock theft there is.
Unless they are clear on that before you have paid for your items, then that is an additional condition to your exiting that is sprung on you after the goods are already your property. Completely unacceptable imo, as a point of principle.
You are correct though that a barrier is not really a detainment, at least not an effective one. I will thus go out of my way to not to take or scan a receipt in order to force them into decisions about whether they think they have legal basis to actually detain me when I ignore their barrier – which so far has never happened. In my experience stores are quite apprehensive about physically restraining people they are not absolutely confident are shoplifters.
So do you force your way through the barrier? Not a great example to set for others, perhaps.
Personally I was annoyed the first time I encountered these barriers, especially as my Mum with whom I was shopping had mislaid the receipt! I think I may have commented 'they're treating every customer as a shoplifter'. But being used to them now I do not regard them as a great imposition, certainly not worth causing a fuss about.
Unless they are clear on that before you have paid for your items, then that is an additional condition to your exiting that is sprung on you after the goods are already your property. Completely unacceptable imo, as a point of principle.
You are correct though that a barrier is not really a detainment, at least not an effective one. I will thus go out of my way to not to take or scan a receipt in order to force them into decisions about whether they think they have legal basis to actually detain me when I ignore their barrier – which so far has never happened. In my experience stores are quite apprehensive about physically restraining people they are not absolutely confident are shoplifters.
You are correct though that a barrier is not really a detainment, at least not an effective one. I will thus go out of my way to not to take or scan a receipt in order to force them into decisions about whether they think they have legal basis to actually detain me when I ignore their barrier – which so far has never happened. In my experience stores are quite apprehensive about physically restraining people they are not absolutely confident are shoplifters.
I assume you do this with railway ticket barriers as well which must make train travel a bit exhausting. Else I am just treating this sort of account as "stuff people say on the Internet sometimes".
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
