Should the GBR Livery be Neutral Colours?

[Masbroughlad]

The country seems to be becoming more divided by the day. Nationalism seems to be fuelling this.

Would a neutral colour scheme have been more suitable? No red, white and blue. Just something striking and recognisable? I'd have been happy with two tone, simple colours.

Red and gold? Green and Cream? One bold colour even.

Great British Railways didn't have to be those colours - particularly as it is essentially just England....

English Railways
Transport for England
Rail England

As an aside, I assume GBR will run services into Wales and Scotland?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But where do you go from there? Ban the flag forever, just because Reform use it a lot and therefore it's automatically a representation of them??

 

[Masbroughlad]

But where do you go from there? Ban the flag forever, just because Reform use it a lot and therefore it's automatically a representation of them??

No, just a gesture and a thought.

National populism is doing us no good. You could say that the colour makes no difference, but subliminally, I think it does.

Why not a neutral name and colour scheme? Progress Rail? Advance Rail? Horizon Rail? Go Travel? Go Rail?

Lots of opportunities and chances without jumping on the GB bandwagon.

IMHO, I think GBR was chosen when Starmer was scared to death of not seeming nationalistic.

 

[RUK]

I know some people don’t like it, but I quite like the West Midlands Public Transport Executive yellow-and-blue liveried Class 312, 312 204, which had the same yellow as the cab ends for the whole carriage length, instead of Rail Blue, and blue instead of the Rail Grey band around the windows. It looks quite like a Nederlandse Spoorwegen livery (which is a livery I like), though.

 

[Davester50]

The country seems to be becoming more divided by the day. Nationalism seems to be fuelling this.

Would a neutral colour scheme have been more suitable? No red, white and blue. Just something striking and recognisable? I'd have been happy with two tone, simple colours.

Red and gold? Green and Cream? One bold colour even.

Great British Railways didn't have to be those colours - particularly as it is essentially just England....

English Railways
Transport for England
Rail England

As an aside, I assume GBR will run services into Wales and Scotland?

We've had a stylised saltire in Scotland for years, and coped.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No, just a gesture and a thought.

National populism is doing us no good. You could say that the colour makes no difference, but subliminally, I think it does.

Why not a neutral name and colour scheme? Progress Rail? Advance Rail? Horizon Rail? Go Travel? Go Rail?

Lots of opportunities and chances without jumping on the GB bandwagon.

IMHO, I think GBR was chosen when Starmer was scared to death of not seeming nationalistic.

Progress Rail is sickening

 

[Masbroughlad]

We've had a stylised saltire in Scotland for years, and coped.

Scotland has a more liberal approach to its place on the World stage and is generally, more open about life. No protest about immigrants and boats etc.

And that was part of my point - Great British Railways - how does that work with Transport for Wales and ScotRail?

 

[Sorcerer]

I don't see the issue with using red, white and blue as a national livery, especially when Scotrail uses a Saltire-based livery. The only reason anyone thinks of it as nationalist is because Britain has an unusual aversion to waving it's national flag that isn't present in European nations, hence why nationalists are the only ones waving it now. Besides which, the name was selected under the previous government before Labour were elected, so the idea Starmer settled on Great British Railways for fear of not seeming nationalistic is demonstrably false.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The country seems to be becoming more divided by the day. Nationalism seems to be fuelling this.

Would a neutral colour scheme have been more suitable? No red, white and blue. Just something striking and recognisable? I'd have been happy with two tone, simple colours.

Red and gold? Green and Cream? One bold colour even.

Great British Railways didn't have to be those colours - particularly as it is essentially just England....

English Railways
Transport for England
Rail England

As an aside, I assume GBR will run services into Wales and Scotland?

How about copying 390119's pride livery to everything?
Then we get all the colours.

Quite how you'd fit a livery designed for 11 coaches onto a 139 I'm not quite sure.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Progress Rail is sickening

Pancake Rail? Choo choo Rail?

It's more the model and delivery than the name?

I dunno. British Rail pre-1996 seemed to work well.......

 

[Davester50]

Scotland has a more liberal approach to its place on the World stage and is generally, more open about life. No protest about immigrants and boats etc.

And that was part of my point - Great British Railways - how does that work with Transport for Wales and ScotRail?

I see you know not very much about Scotland. Thanks for showing that.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I see you know not very much about Scotland. Thanks for showing that.

Oh, don't I? Maybe educate me

 

[Davester50]

Oh, don't I? Maybe educate me

Well 1, there has been protests at hotels. Some in Perth, some in Falkirk.

The equal second largest party at Holyrood is Reform.

 

[tbtc]

Red and gold? Green and Cream? One bold colour even.

Dark blue? That's a bold colour

Maybe with a red band to break it up?

Scotland has a more liberal approach to its place on the World stage and is generally, more open about life. No protest about immigrants and boats etc.

And that was part of my point - Great British Railways - how does that work with Transport for Wales and ScotRail?

No protests about migrants? You've not been seeing the news from Glasgow in the past week then?

Obviously there's no "small boats" sailing up the Clyde, so it's a less pressing issue (out of sight, out of mind etc), but there have certainly protests across Scotland in the last couple of years, as there have in England/ Northern Ireland

This feels like it's saying more about your personal politics than it does about trains/flags etc. "Scotland is allowed to have the Saltire all over it's carriages because it has Nice Nationalism whilst English/ British flags shouldn't be allowed on transport because that's Bad Nationalism"?

(I really don't see the problem with GBR's colours, just like I didn't with Valley Lines using the Welsh flag as their livery)

 

[Davester50]

No protests about migrants? You've not been seeing the news from Glasgow in the past week then?

Obviously there's no "small boats" sailing up the Clyde, so it's a less pressing issue (out of sight, out of mind etc), but there have certainly protests across Scotland in the last couple of years, as there have in England/ Northern Ireland

This feels like it's saying more about your personal politics than it does about trains/flags etc. "Scotland is allowed to have the Saltire all over it's carriages because it has Nice Nationalism whilst English/ British flags shouldn't be allowed on transport because that's Bad Nationalism"?

(I really don't see the problem with GBR's colours, just like I didn't with Valley Lines using the Welsh flag as their livery)

Bingo.

 

[brad465]

Not using a flag because certain nationalists use it is just playing into the nationalists' hands. Keep the branding and use of the flag wherever appropriate, to show the flag does not belong to any nationalists.

 

[Russel]

If we were to go down the neutral/toned down route, I'd suggest something like a modified version of the Greater Anglia livery, it's simple, inoffensive, includes red and white for the St Georges Cross and it's fairly smart.

 

[RUK]

Progress Rail is sickening

Progress Rail owns Electro-Motive Diesel, and in turn is owned by Caterpillar.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Sep 2026 ==

If we were to go down the neutral/toned down route, I'd suggest something like a modified version of the Greater Anglia livery, it's simple, inoffensive, includes red and white for the St Georges Cross and it's fairly smart.

I personally find the Greater Anglia livery, especially the new grey version, quite boring.

 

[Russel]

I personally find the Greater Anglia livery, especially the new grey version, quite boring.

I agree, it's a bit dull, but I think that's the point, it's simple, not in your face and will age well.

 

[Smwrff]

(I really don't see the problem with GBR's colours, just like I didn't with Valley Lines using the Welsh flag as their livery)

Valley Lines were disbanded 25 years ago. Today TfW uses a Welsh pallete (red & white) for its branding but is not overtly flag focussed.

Incidentally, green (another Welsh pallette) will be used for TfW bus services (under development).

 

[SynthD]

IMHO, I think GBR was chosen when Starmer was scared to death of not seeming nationalistic.

2018, the Transport Secretary for the May government, Chris Grayling, announced a review into the rail system, led by businessman Keith Williams.[23] Published in 2021, the Williams–Shapps Rail Review recommended the formation of a new state-owned Great British Railways organisation. …

In October 2022, the Transport Secretary for the short-lived Truss government, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, announced that the Transport Bill (which would have set up GBR) would not go ahead in the current parliamentary session.

It’s connected to the last six PMs and I won’t even try counting the transport ministers. The name is nonpartisan.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The GBR livery I saw for real (on a passing 377 Electrostar, at night) visually jarred:
- The base colour is too dark and gets lost in dark conditions.
- The angles of the red and white are clumsy and don't "flow" when a train passes at speed.

I say: a burnt-orange main bodyside, with a reflective cyan / powder-blue stripe + a royal / marine-blue stripe, entwined horizontally; morphing to an "organic" entwined waveform shape at each outer of bodyside.

Failing that, faux-teak.

 

[S101]

Oh dear, imagine choosing to live in a country, and then advocating the removal of the national flag of that country. Apart from in this case, its not even a Union Flag, it's just the colours of.... When will this nonsence end? Do British Airways get the same amount of hate? Effectively banning the flag, or even the colours of, from key industry will cause more problems, not end them. Enjoy the Union Flag for the correct reasons, it's a bold and attractive flag. Be proud of it, for the correct reasons.

 

[Bald Rick]

GBR = Generally Beige Railways.

 

[NCT]

Those flag based colour schemes do feel a bit jingoistic.

The more important thing is a livery really needs to go through professional designers with actual design principles applied (colour relationships, continuity, ease of application etc).

 

[Sun Chariot]

GBR = Generally Beige Railways.

BR(WR) Swindon Golden Ochre, or Stroudley's Improved Engine Green?

 

[Mr. SW]

GBR = Generally Beige Railways

Goes Brown Rapidly

 

[mrcheek]

Great idea, get the flags off of trains.

So, presumably youll be happy to see Pride flags gone then?

Meanwhile, we better stop naming trains. and remove all the existing names. After all, we've had trains named after castles, warships, military regiments, all nationalistic terms of war!
Some trains were named after sportspeople of course. Who represented their country. So we better get rid of those too. Nationalistic trash!

Which just leaves the few trains named after railway workers. Oh wait, all trade union members, so ties with left wing politics. Better get rid of those, so as not to be divisive.
Oh yes, theres a few named after railway bosses too. Evil capitalists! be gone!

Might have to get rid of a few station names as well. "Victoria" is very problematic!
Waterloo is just insulting to France.
Kings Cross? A reference to the evil monarchy? and to the cross! shocking!

Paddington? an illegal immigrant bear!
And if Kings Cross has to go, Mornington Crescent has to go too!

Where does it end?

 

[Ashley Hill]

I posted this AI image of a chocolate & cream IET elsewhere on the forum before but i believe it would fit here too. Also doesn`t show the brake dust too much either. Candy Apple Red is a popular colour too!


Whilst not neutral in style neither can be classed as having any particular meaning to the public.

 

[Narrowgauge725]

Well obviously all trains that run through gods county would have the Yorkshire Flag on them, especially it they then go into Lancashire. The GBR livery is poorly designed and not ideal

PS enjoyed the Last Night of the Proms and waved my Union Flag all night, no I won't be voting for Reform but I am proud to be a Yorkshireman and British, please stop hijacking my national flag.