Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising

[TheGrandWazoo]

In a legal sense, I don't think this necessarily follows. As I understand it, once franchising is in place, the X2 will only be able to operate in Merseyside if the authority give it a permit to operate. So the authority could refuse to give it a permit.

Whether, in a practical sense, the authority could so refuse is a different matter: I can see an argument that offending a large local operator (who already have the Wirral and St Helens contracts) might not be good business practice. And I can also see a public authority refusing such a permit as opening themselves up to judicial review over whether the refusal was done in an entirely legal way - which again might well not be where they would want to go.

The X2 will be reliant on a permit to operate in the area. I'm sure that as part of that, they (LCRCA) will require/ask Stagecoach to amend their timings so there is a balanced headway. Doubtless, Stagecoach as a provider of services to the same authority, and seeking to develop/protect that relationship, will look to work with them.

 

[Djgr]

Is a new peak time day pass on the cards? I’ve always found it strange that the only daily product on offer valid on both train and bus is the Saveaway

I think more likely a Tap and Go with daily cap.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I presume that the train companies prevented this from existing in the past so I wouldn't have thought that bus franchising would make a difference. It is the same in Greater Manchester.

Bus franchising by itself won't make any difference. But, as in Manchester, one can only hope that the increased centralised ticketing control will improve things. West Yorkshire manage to offer a peak-time version of the MetroDay.

The X2 is operated from Preston depot which is outside the franchising area, whether you like it or not Metro will not be able to do anything about the X2 unless Stagecoach hand it over.

That's not true. The X2 would only be allowed to operate in the LCR if they are given a service permit.

The legislation around service permits has recently changed and the authority now have very wide-ranging powers when deciding to grant a service permit or when deciding to attach conditions to that service permit. This can even include the authority specifying the fares charged in the franchised area, minimum standards for the vehicles used, and even the types of payment that an operator has to accept.

And I can also see a public authority refusing such a permit as opening themselves up to judicial review over whether the refusal was done in an entirely legal way

There is an appeals process to the Traffic Commissioner if an operator wishes to appeal a refusal or wishes to object to any conditions attached to the permit. Judicial review would only really come into it if the authority haven't set the franchising scheme up correctly.

 

[Polarbear]

My understanding was that the X2 will be operated under a permit. Think the original plan was to split the service in Southport (something that was also considered on the Chester-Liverpool corridor with a split at Ellesmere Port). As the X2 has a fair bit of custom that uses the service across Southport, it makes more sense for the through service to be retained.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There is an appeals process to the Traffic Commissioner if an operator wishes to appeal a refusal or wishes to object to any conditions attached to the permit. Judicial review would only really come into it if the authority haven't set the franchising scheme up correctly.

They can but I think it's unlikely to be an issue in this instance.

As I said earlier, Stagecoach are a provider to LCRCA and they'll be keen to establish/maintain a good relationship so if it means a retiming of the X2, it's no biggie.

 

[Gareth1990]

What’s happening with the 1/X1 service from Liverpool to Chester, is that staying whole now, or will it be split at Ellesmere Port?

 

[Polarbear]

What’s happening with the 1/X1 service from Liverpool to Chester, is that staying whole now, or will it be split at Ellesmere Port?

Routes 1 & X1 are remaining with Stagecoach. They’ll operate under permit & Stagecoach will retain Rock Ferry depot.

All other Wirral services will be operated from Laird Street from late October.

 

[darylyates17]

Routes 1 & X1 are remaining with Stagecoach. They’ll operate under permit & Stagecoach will retain Rock Ferry depot.

All other Wirral services will be operated from Laird Street from late October.

Will RF have any other work or just the 1/X1

 

[Polarbear]

Will RF have any other work or just the 1/X1

Unless they retain work like the link to the Belfast ferry port, I don’t think so.

It will act as a maintenance hub for the vehicles based at Chester (Waverton) I suspect. Whether that’s viable in the long term, I have my doubts.

 

[darylyates17]

Also how long will MD/Link Network get to keep their 329 as I only see Arriva getting the permit long term.

 

[Fokx]

Also how long will MD/Link Network get to keep their 329 as I only see Arriva getting the permit long term.

That's not how the permits work, they aren't time-bound.

 

[Statto]

When Wirral goes to franchising in 6 weeks, with most of the routes operating from Laird Street (apart from the 1/X1), what is going to happen with the route interworking, as currently the 407 interworks with the 471/472, the 410 interworks with the 411, the 432/433 interworks with the 437, the 407 interworking with the 471/472 will be most affected, as the 407 is going to remain every 20 minutes, & the 471/472 will be every 10 minutes.

 

[Polarbear]

When Wirral goes to franchising in 6 weeks, with most of the routes operating from Laird Street (apart from the 1/X1), what is going to happen with the route interworking, as currently the 407 interworks with the 471/472, the 410 interworks with the 411, the 432/433 interworks with the 437, the 407 interworking with the 471/472 will be most affected, as the 407 is going to remain every 20 minutes, & the 471/472 will be every 10 minutes.

I don’t know the answer, but I expect that there will be a bit more self containment on each route. Part of the reason for the current inter-working is to accommodate Stagecoach diagrams on routes such as 472/472, which will not be the case after October.

 

[darylyates17]

That's not how the permits work, they aren't time-bound.

I am aware of that I thought they would give it up once MDs school routes go to franchising or the 99.

 

[mickey]

When Wirral goes to franchising in 6 weeks, with most of the routes operating from Laird Street (apart from the 1/X1), what is going to happen with the route interworking, as currently the 407 interworks with the 471/472, the 410 interworks with the 411, the 432/433 interworks with the 437, the 407 interworking with the 471/472 will be most affected, as the 407 is going to remain every 20 minutes, & the 471/472 will be every 10 minutes.

It’s perfectly possible to interwork without needing to do it on every journey. It’s done here to get drivers on and off the services without needing to run dead (or positioning on another service), so as long as you can still schedule it at appropriate times for shift start/end and breaks it would still work, e.g. with alternate services and a bit of creative scheduling.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That's not how the permits work, they aren't time-bound.

They are. Well, to be more accurate, the authority issuing them can choose to issue them for a fixed period of time before they have to be renewed.

 

[317 forever]

That will be because the Widnes map is dated May 2026

This in itself means that Arriva have updated their Liverpool map but not yet their Widnes map.

 

[Fokx]

I am aware of that I thought they would give it up once MDs school routes go to franchising or the 99.

They don't operate any Merseytravel contracted school routes, they're all private or are for schools within the Greater Manchester and Warrington areas and thus are not subject to franchising.

 

[markymark2000]

They don't operate any Merseytravel contracted school routes, they're all private or are for schools within the Greater Manchester and Warrington areas and thus are not subject to franchising.

Incorrect. 654 and 725 are both Merseytravel school contracts

 

[Polarbear]

A few observations from a brief trip on a 10a service earlier today.

Quite a lot of customers boarded using Arriva QR codes. Although the driver accepted these, the only information given was for the user to contact “Metro”.

I’d suggest Metro may want to better advertise the fact that most Arriva tickets won’t be valid at all in the not too distant future. Some posters on vehicles would be a start. I foresee problems for drivers at the sharp end when Arriva tickets are no longer valid.

 

[dvfmlfc]

The X2 will be reliant on a permit to operate in the area. I'm sure that as part of that, they (LCRCA) will require/ask Stagecoach to amend their timings so there is a balanced headway. Doubtless, Stagecoach as a provider of services to the same authority, and seeking to develop/protect that relationship, will look to work with them.

The other way to address the X2 problem is for the LCR section of route to be operated by Stagecoach on behalf of Merseytravel. It would then give the PTE enough control to attach a certain amount of integration with their franchised network, but also allowing Stagecoach to keep hold of what is a valuable asset to them.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Unless they retain work like the link to the Belfast ferry port, I don’t think so.

It will act as a maintenance hub for the vehicles based at Chester (Waverton) I suspect. Whether that’s viable in the long term, I have my doubts.

The idea of Rock Ferry is, in the short term, to act as the Merseyside and Cheshire maintenance hub and to be a base from which to secure Merseyside schools work plus other stuff over the border as well as the X1. I was a bit surprised that Stagecoach are keeping it.

The other way to address the X2 problem is for the LCR section of route to be operated by Stagecoach on behalf of Merseytravel. It would then give the PTE enough control to attach a certain amount of integration with their franchised network, but also allowing Stagecoach to keep hold of what is a valuable asset to them.

That's essentially what the permit system is about. The control on what basis Stagecoach can operate.

 

[Djgr]

The idea of Rock Ferry is, in the short term, to act as the Merseyside and Cheshire maintenance hub and to be a base from which to secure Merseyside schools work

Is there any particular reason to believe that they will win this rather than any competitors?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2026 ==

A few observations from a brief trip on a 10a service earlier today.

Quite a lot of customers boarded using Arriva QR codes. Although the driver accepted these, the only information given was for the user to contact “Metro”.

I’d suggest Metro may want to better advertise the fact that most Arriva tickets won’t be valid at all in the not too distant future. Some posters on vehicles would be a start. I foresee problems for drivers at the sharp end when Arriva tickets are no longer valid.

Might also be a good idea for Arriva to do the same

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is there any particular reason to believe that they will win this rather than any competitors?

Not as far as I'm aware, other than that they have an existing base (no set up costs) and have been successful in obtaining work in Greater Manchester and Merseyside already.

If they're unsuccessful, then they can either keep it or sell it and find a smaller, cheaper site.

 

[Djgr]

Not as far as I'm aware, other than that they have an existing base (no set up costs) and have been successful in obtaining work in Greater Manchester and Merseyside already.

If they're unsuccessful, then they can either keep it or sell it and find a smaller, cheaper site.

Their site is in a now almost exclusively residential area, where the policy is to restrict new housing to brownfield sites.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Their site is in a now almost exclusively residential area, where the policy is to restrict new housing to brownfield sites.

Exactly - if they want to cash in, they could. However, in the meantime, they're keeping it until the decide otherwise.

It is a very old site though - built in 1932 apparently - although reclad and improved in recent years. Still young compared to Arriva Southport though.

 

[Polarbear]

Might also be a good idea for Arriva to do the same

Agreed. Just looked at the webpage for Arriva tickets in the Liverpool Combined Region. Absolutely no mention or references to the recent changes in St Helens, nor that Arriva tickets will cease to be valid on services in the near future.

Noted that Arriva are continuing to retail the full ranger of tickets, including Annual passes.

 

[Man of Kent]

Agreed. Just looked at the webpage for Arriva tickets in the Liverpool Combined Region. Absolutely no mention or references to the recent changes in St Helens, nor that Arriva tickets will cease to be valid on services in the near future.

Noted that Arriva are continuing to retail the full ranger of tickets, including Annual passes.

There was an item posted on the news pages on 12 August that gave details

Arriva services in St Helens will become part of the Liverpool City Region’s Franchised Bus Network

From 6th September 2026

www.arrivabus.co.uk

though the Tap & Go page has not removed the route they no longer operate

Arriva services in St Helens will become part of the Liverpool City Region’s Franchised Bus Network​

1 month ago Wed 12th Aug 2026


From Sunday 6 September, Arriva services in the St Helens area will be become part of the Liverpool City Region’s publicly controlled bus network.
This means that the following services will no longer be operated by Arriva*:

Services 10/10A	St Helens to Liverpool
Service 17	Laffak to Widnes
Service 20	St Helen to Earlestown
Service 31	St Helens to Parr
Services 32/32A	Clinkham Wood to Clock Face
Service 33	St Helens to Gillar’s Green
Services 34/34A	St Helens to Leigh
Service 35	St Helens to St Helens Junction
Services 37/38/38A	St Helens to Rainford
Service 89	St Helens to Liverpool John Lennon Airport
Service 320	St Helens to Wigan
Service 352	St Helens to Wigan
Service 920	St Helens to Haydock Industrial Estate

*Services 329 & 360 will continue to be operated by Arriva.
Arriva tickets will continue to be accepted on the Liverpool City Region’s franchised bus network for a limited period:

• Weekly tickets will be accepted until 13 September 2026.
• 4-weekly, term and annual tickets will be accepted until 5 October 2026.

After these dates, Arriva products will not be valid for use on any of the Liverpool City Region’s franchised bus services.
If you travel on a service that will become part of the franchised bus network and have Arriva tickets that are valid past these dates you can apply for a refund based on the number of days left on your ticket by completing the contact us form here.
You will need to provide the following information, depending on the ticket type you hold:

• Paper ticket - Please provide an image of the ticket with your refund request. Together with your postal address.
• M-Ticket - Please provide your email address and a screenshot of the email confirmation you received when you purchased the ticket. If you used a gift code to redeem the ticket, please provide the gift code used.
• Arriva Connect Smart Cards - Please provide the long card number found on the card and the email address linked to your connect account.

For other ticket types, such as tickets paid via Direct Debit or tickets issued via a Third Party please see our FAQ’s for further details.
Arriva Tap and Go fare capping will not be available on the new Liverpool City Region’s franchised bus network, however you can continue to use Tap and Go on Arriva services.

For further details, including updated timetables and alternative ticket options please visit Merseytravel.​

We would like to thank all our customers who have travelled with us over the years.​

Further information​

FAQ's - Liverpool City Region’s Franchised Bus Network in St Helens

 

[Polarbear]

Thanks @Man of Kent. At least there’s something there, though perhaps not as obvious as it should be?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Exactly - if they want to cash in, they could. However, in the meantime, they're keeping it until the decide otherwise.

It is a very old site though - built in 1932 apparently - although reclad and improved in recent years. Still young compared to Arriva Southport though.

I suppose it depends if the money they could get from a developer would be more or less than the cost of buying a new site and kitting that site out. The Rock Ferry depot site isn't particularly large and it is squashed in by the football ground behind it.