childwallblues
Established Member
On my many trips to the Netherlands I noted many of the bus (and train ) services were operated by Arriva.
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Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising
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The same number as bus companies named after it (1) - even known it's technically not one but that's another discussion.
I'd be very surprised if people didn't think of a Metro as a train outside of Merseyside though. The Paris and Tokyo Metro are pretty much known worldwide really even if it's from just being in a film.
(The name doesn't bother me for the record btw).
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frodshamfella
Established Member
Thats true
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
For most people in the UK, think of a light rail system and you're more likely to think of the tube/Underground.
I'm ok with Metro for an urban public transport network name; I think it's actually a good strong identity and it's versatile so applicable to a range of modes.
Fawkes Cat
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We'll know it's caught on in Merseyside when people start talking about 'the Metty'.
[Disclaimer: I live in Merseyside, and have done for 29 years. So I think I have some right to comment on how scousers might talk about their public transport system.]
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I've had the delights of Arriva (incl. waterbuses) in Copenhagen, Slovenia and, I think, between Lake Garda and Verona on a service from Brescia in Northern Italy.
You're probably not far wrong
Yeah you're maybe right, I'm curious now tbh. Not really a way to find out though annoyingly.
Don't mind the name either really; it's certainly better than stuff like Weaver, Angel and other made up nonsense.
Mind I'd prefer them to stick with Mersey Travel or something local to the area though and just have Merseybus, Merseyrail, Merseyferry and so on. I'm not aware of anyone in London being confused about buses because they don't have a meaningless name really but it's the best of the worst.
The only Metro that I can think of that is meant to include buses is South Wales Metro, but I don't think it really does.
That said, happy for Liverpool to be leading the pack here
I suspect the reason they've not used Mersey branding is simple: it's Liverpool City Region, not Merseyside. And LCR includes Halton which is in Cheshire. Metro is quite neutral and I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a neutral brand for political reasons. Now as I understand it, Halton's not in bus franchising at this stage, but as/when/if it joins in the future, they won't want to have to rebrand everything.
Mersey as a brand has an inherent weakness in that many people in Liverpool City Region live nowhere near it and many people far from Liverpool live near it (e.g. Sale, Stockport).
In my experience, people away from the area tend to use the Mersey word more. Local people I know would say Hoylake or on the Wirral, over the water, or near Liverpool. If they were old school they would say Cheshire.
Yeah some fair points on the Mersey branding, can't argue against it at all, to be fair. I'm used to the parochial naming issues up here so totally get it (North East).
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I think this is it in a nutshell.
In this respect, the neutrality is a benefit in that it can be readily applied and, as you say, it perhaps doesn't have the political issues of branding something Mersey-esque when some areas may not see themselves that way. As @Djgr states, some on the Wirral might not see it that way, and neither in Newton le Willows or Southport.
The prefix Metro has been employed (to indicate a metropolitan or urban area) in many non-light rail instances; almost a synonym for "urban"
Blackpool Transport used Metro for their buses for a period, Bristol has the "metrobus" scheme, we have Metrobus in South London/Sussex though that might be a little incongruous when in East Grinstead
, minibuses in Cheltenham and Gloucester had the Metro brand in the 1980s/1990s, Metroline in London. There's doubtless others I've forgotten about.Bus and train manufacturer Metro-Cammell branded various buses and coaches with Metrobus, Metroliner, Metrorider and the joint venture Metropolitan.
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The French use of the word comes from the world's original Metro the Metropolitan Railway in London. Which now, known as the Metropolitan line, is ironically the least metro-like part of the Underground. (Of course you are right about the original etymology)
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Maybe in about 100 years then. People still call Queen Square bus staton the gyratory. And Home and Bargain has won the battle of Bold Street.
It's strange how Merseyrail as a system hasn't caught the imagination of the public in the same way that the T&W Metro has. Or the Tube.
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Northerngirl
Member
The LA bus network is also called metro, so its not entirely unheard of, although I think "metrobus" rather than metro network would work better
Fawkes Cat
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But if the idea is for it to be irrelevant to the user whether their public transport runs on roads or on rails, then 'Metrobus' is somewhat unhelpful.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Again, I think you're bang on. It would seem that they're after a consistent brand irrespective of mode, and you can see the logic in that.
dvfmlfc
Member
Simple solution to the 47 / X2 issue - franchise both services between Crossens, Southport and Liverpool. It seems utterly daft why a permit service will be allowed to travel over 20 miles within the franchised area along common tracts of franchised bus routes. There's already separate services between Southport and Preston.
Statto
Established Member
Having ventured out again today i have a few observations.
The Ultroliners seem unreliable at the moment, i saw one with hazards on near Liverpool Airport that should have been on an 89, another one was running inbound 40 minutes late, after departing St Helens 10 late, then an E400MMC (that i caught) replaced an Ultroliner on the 320, then the E200MMC that i was on the X3 (09.04 from Liverpool Airport) developed faults too that the driver needed to call the depot but that arrived in St Helens on time.
It got me thinking whether the buses being stored in a safe compound in Widnes but out in the open subject to all the elements since June has had an adverse affect on them considering the weather we've had?
I have a Merseytravel issued disabled ENCTS pass so asked the driver of the X3 if it was valid from the Airport to St Helens as my pass is valid all day in Merseyside this was before 09.30, & the ticket machine cleared it.
Oh & another thing, whilst i was at Wigan & saw Bee Network & Metro buses next to each other, the Metro livery is so much nicer than the Bee Network one, the Bee Network buses were so dirty it looked like they hadn't been through the bus wash for a whilst.
The Ultroliners seem unreliable at the moment, i saw one with hazards on near Liverpool Airport that should have been on an 89, another one was running inbound 40 minutes late, after departing St Helens 10 late, then an E400MMC (that i caught) replaced an Ultroliner on the 320, then the E200MMC that i was on the X3 (09.04 from Liverpool Airport) developed faults too that the driver needed to call the depot but that arrived in St Helens on time.
It got me thinking whether the buses being stored in a safe compound in Widnes but out in the open subject to all the elements since June has had an adverse affect on them considering the weather we've had?
I have a Merseytravel issued disabled ENCTS pass so asked the driver of the X3 if it was valid from the Airport to St Helens as my pass is valid all day in Merseyside this was before 09.30, & the ticket machine cleared it.
Oh & another thing, whilst i was at Wigan & saw Bee Network & Metro buses next to each other, the Metro livery is so much nicer than the Bee Network one, the Bee Network buses were so dirty it looked like they hadn't been through the bus wash for a whilst.
It's not just the exterior either. The 612 really stands out for all the wrong reasons against a sea of the much brighter interior and exteriors of the Merseyside batch of 200mmc's.
Statto
Established Member
Agreed.
Absolutely agree there. Although the colours are similiar, Metro's slightly darker with faint orange hue wins hands down.
KHCT
Member
Funny how you're throwing a quote around but can't say who said it. I'll give you a clue; it wasn't Mrs T or anyone in her government.
Who says it is irrelevant?
The X2 is popular for the cross-Southport connection, I doubt passengers will be pleased if they are forced to change bus especially as there isn't really a proper bus station in Southport.
TfLCR aka Merseytravel
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Clearly says "may or may not"
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I think you've misinterpreted @Fawkes Cat's comment. The idea is that to the public there is a single integrated image irrespective of whether it's a bus, a train, or a ferry.
Gareth1990
Member
Is a new peak time day pass on the cards? I’ve always found it strange that the only daily product on offer valid on both train and bus is the Saveaway
johncrossley
Established Member
I presume that the train companies prevented this from existing in the past so I wouldn't have thought that bus franchising would make a difference. It is the same in Greater Manchester.
Statto
Established Member
The X2 is operated from Preston depot which is outside the franchising area, whether you like it or not Metro will not be able to do anything about the X2 unless Stagecoach hand it over.
Whilst there is a separate 2 Preston-Southport that takes 80 to 90 minutes goes through all the Villages & Hesketh Bank, is every hour, were the X2 takes 50 to 60 minutes & has 2 buses an hour
Fawkes Cat
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In a legal sense, I don't think this necessarily follows. As I understand it, once franchising is in place, the X2 will only be able to operate in Merseyside if the authority give it a permit to operate. So the authority could refuse to give it a permit.
Whether, in a practical sense, the authority could so refuse is a different matter: I can see an argument that offending a large local operator (who already have the Wirral and St Helens contracts) might not be good business practice. And I can also see a public authority refusing such a permit as opening themselves up to judicial review over whether the refusal was done in an entirely legal way - which again might well not be where they would want to go.