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OxRail 2040 - plan from Oxfordshire County Council

Zomboid

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Though I highly doubt XC will be stopping at Begbroke so the whole timetable north of Oxford will likely need a rethink anyway - is there actually enough capacity between Oxford and Banbury for both a frequent commuter/regional service (e.g. 2tph, 1 to Stratford and 1 to Banbury/Moor St) and CrossCountry every half hour? I'd be surprised if there was, but if so then it has a lot of potential as a new commuter rail corridor, especially given that there'll be somewhere to send the trains on the other side of Oxford soon (Cowley).
Cowley is getting the Marylebone trains... I don't know if there's much capacity on the Cherwell line, I suspect the crunch point is Aynho to Banbury as that would have potentially 2x XC, 2x Chiltern Birminghams, 2x Cherwell stoppers (some may call Kings Sutton), 0.5x Chiltern stoppers (calling Kings Sutton) plus whatever the freight is.

If that works then the Chiltern paths that don't go down the Cherwell line would probably allow for the stoppers to fit in to an extent. Might need the 165 replacements to have improved acceleration.

Wolvercote to Oxford is busy as well, but that has 4 tracks so I'd guess it wouldn't be the constraint.

Oxford and Banbury stations would probably be an issue though, especially Oxford with the post EWR 6tph from Parkway. Might need another destination to the south to get the trains out of the way (crayons suggest Abingdon).
 
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cle

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Oxford and Banbury stations would probably be an issue though, especially Oxford with the post EWR 6tph from Parkway. Might need another destination to the south to get the trains out of the way (crayons suggest Abingdon).
This should be the Oxford-Didcot shuttle (which is sometimes to Banbury) - it could become the Stratford/Moor St, for instance - if Cowley will only ever be the Marylebone/2tph, and EWR needs to be more uniform and shuttle-like, in the bay/s.
 

zwk500

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This should be the Oxford-Didcot shuttle (which is sometimes to Banbury) - it could become the Stratford/Moor St, for instance
So you'd be running a Paddington - Moor Street when (if) the Didcot services are ever joined back up?
 

Zomboid

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The aspiration really has to be to get the Didcot services back to Oxford, so the 1 in 4 which extends to Banbury may need to be decoupled from that (unless the electrification that brings wires to Oxford continues to Banbury).
 

ox_chap

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Crayons at the ready - wait for it - how about reopening the spur off the Cotswolds line and on to East West rail. Chiltern could revisit running to Kidderminster, but instead via Worcester. It might also take some of the pressure off overcrowding, where a heavily-used Cotswolds line train arrives in Oxford to a platform full of extra passengers also wanting London.
 

zwk500

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The aspiration really has to be to get the Didcot services back to Oxford, so the 1 in 4 which extends to Banbury may need to be decoupled from that (unless the electrification that brings wires to Oxford continues to Banbury).
Agreed, switching the Banbury service to tack on to the end of the Bi-Mode Fasts that terminate at Oxford would be a sensible option if they've got a path. Electrification to Banbury feels like it would be a later phase of Chiltern or Birmingham Snow Hill electrification, whereas Didcot-Oxford is a clear end point for the GW.
Crayons at the ready - wait for it - how about reopening the spur off the Cotswolds line and on to East West rail. Chiltern could revisit running to Kidderminster, but instead via Worcester. It might also take some of the pressure off overcrowding, where a heavily-used Cotswolds line train arrives in Oxford to a platform full of extra passengers also wanting London.
Skipping Oxford would be a rather strange call. Would you propose such a curve if it hadn't been built already?
 

Farigiraf

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Might need another destination to the south to get the trains out of the way (crayons suggest Abingdon).
Abingdon would be great but then you could also bring up Witney and design an entire Oxford commuter rail network. Cowley's actually funded which is why it's worth talking about.
Cowley is getting the Marylebone trains.
That's only 2tph which isn't much for a branch that serves some really busy suburbs and workplaces. The Cowley branch reopening would not be viable if it depended on traffic to/from London and Bicester - if you want the line be well used, it needs to compete on Cowley/Littlemore to Oxford station flows as well. There's a frequent bus connection at the moment but rail will be faster (especially at rush hour), more comfortable and higher capacity, plus offers great onward long-distance connections, it just needs to offer decent frequencies as well.

With a train every half hour, I suspect most people using the Cowley branch will be going to/from London, which will only be a few hundred thousand annual passengers max, far from the line's full potential. With the population catchment and both inbound & outbound commuting options to/from Littlemore and Cowley, half a million is very achievable, if not a million. For that it needs to be well served though. For example, in addition to the London services, a half-hourly connection to Begbroke, Heyford Park, Banbury etc will provide a 1-seat journey from many new housing developments straight to numerous workplaces (e.g. the Science Park) which would otherwise be done by car.

This should be the Oxford-Didcot shuttle
Not merging this with the London-Didcot service post-electrification would be a bit of a waste. Appleford is a small village but Radley and Culham would get a lot more than 100k annual users if they had frequent London services, as they're the main railhead for Abingdon (and still would be for southbound traffic even if Abingdon gets a rail link, as such a rail link would point towards Oxford not London). If the Oxford-Banbury stopper remains attached to it, it'd mean you'd have to use a BEMU or bi-mode which would be more useful elsewhere.

Crayons at the ready - wait for it - how about reopening the spur off the Cotswolds line and on to East West rail. Chiltern could revisit running to Kidderminster, but instead via Worcester. It might also take some of the pressure off overcrowding, where a heavily-used Cotswolds line train arrives in Oxford to a platform full of extra passengers also wanting London.
London-Kidderminster via Worcester would be incredibly slow. By being an extension of a London-Oxford express, the Cotswold line manages to be relatively competitive in journey times versus driving despite the slow speeds, so diverting it to Marylebone would seriously hurt London traffic. Ridership between London and Worcester, Malvern, Hereford and the Cotswolds put together is fairly significant as these are busy places.
Not to mention the fact that each of these train services (presumably 3- or 4-car) would use a path of a train that could be going to Oxford (could be 5- or 6-cars). The numbers just don't suggest it being a good idea, especially when the Cotswold line already has a rail service that's well used.

There's no convenient place to terminate a London-Oxford express every half-hour (as Ely/King's Lynn is for Cambridge) and even post-electrification, an extended Didcot stopper wouldn't take over much of the London-Oxford traffic, so the question of what to do with London-Oxford fast trains is valid point to raise, but screwing over a different market is not a good way to solve that issue. Moving the current 5-car IET London-Oxford hourly express over to an 8-car Electrostar would on its own add an extra 100 seats an hour without any capacity works necessary.
 
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JamesT

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Abingdon would be great but then you could also bring up Witney and design an entire Oxford commuter rail network. Cowley's actually funded which is why it's worth talking about.

That's only 2tph which isn't much for a branch that goes through some really busy suburbs. The Cowley branch would not be viable if it depended on traffic to/from London and Bicester - if you want the line be well used, it needs to compete on Cowley/Littlemore to Oxford station flows as well. There's a frequent bus connection at the moment but rail is faster (especially at rush hour), more comfortable and higher capacity, plus offers great onward long-distance connections.

With a train every half hour, I suspect most people using the Cowley branch will be going to/from London, which will only be a few hundred thousand annual passengers max, far from the line's full potential. With the population catchment and both inbound & outbound commuting options to/from Littlemore and Cowley, a million is very achievable. For that, it needs to be well served though. For example, in addition to the London services, a half-hourly connection to Begbroke, Heyford Park, Banbury etc will provide a 1-seat journey from many new housing developments straight to numerous workplaces (e.g. the Science Park) which would otherwise be done by car.
The Cowley Branch is only a single track. You’re not going to get much more than the 2tph on it. I expect many people taking rail journeys will switch to using the new stations. (I know I will). But that’s a tiny fraction of the passengers on the buses, who are going to the city centre.
 

fishwomp

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So you'd be running a Paddington - Moor Street when (if) the Didcot services are ever joined back up?
Back to pre-1910 days!

With Cowley branch, Abingdon branch and now ..
Crayons at the ready - wait for it - how about reopening the spur off the Cotswolds line and on to East West rail. Chiltern could revisit running to Kidderminster, but instead via Worcester. It might also take some of the pressure off overcrowding, where a heavily-used Cotswolds line train arrives in Oxford to a platform full of extra passengers also wanting London.
If someone could suggest the reopening of Witney and Fairford, Baulking to Faringdon, and Banbury to Hook Norton and Kingham, and the Woodstock branch - would anyone have a line yet in Oxfordshire rail bingo?
 

SynthD

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What's the reasoning behind significantly extending the local Leamington services that must hit pretty tight slots over single lines? I know XC aren't great, but the existing 2tph service should be fine and surely the focus should be on getting that running properly before you go stuffing the Cherwell Valley up with stoppers so that freight gets squeezed even tighter.
Chiltern had a long term wish for Birmingham, sometimes stated as Leamington, to Oxford services, but that was replaced by London to Oxford via Bicester. The Stratford part is a forum add on. If GWR wanted to focus on the Cotswold line and there were enough terminal platforms and still an interest in non-XC services northwards, then handing over the northern Cherwell line to Chiltern could work.

Chiltern as a TOC, with its Evergreen projects and longer franchise period, had more planning brainpower than most? I hope that’s not gone to waste since becoming a concession.

The 8km from Aynho to Banbury is neatly split up by the M40, twice. Not easy to four track.
For example, in addition to the London services, a half-hourly connection to Begbroke, Heyford Park, Banbury etc will provide a 1-seat journey from many new housing developments straight to numerous workplaces (e.g. the Science Park) which would otherwise be done by car.
That's a good, interesting prediction, though drivers would live on their work's side of Oxford. I wonder how much of that exists from the science campuses around Culham. The Cherwell line, from Didcot to Banbury, needs more splitting into intercity - Paddington, Reading, Didcot, Oxford, Hanborough/Oxford Parkway - and the local - Didcot to however far towards Evesham is commuter territory.
 

ox_chap

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Skipping Oxford would be a rather strange call. Would you propose such a curve if it hadn't been built already?
It was slightly tongue-in-cheek. There is obviously a big market from Oxford to the Cotswolds and vv. So I was thinking if the Cotswolds line ever had two trains per hour, it would be an additional train heading off to Marylebone. Who knows, maybe one day, Honeybourne to Stratford may reopen, so that would have interesting implications for the Cotswolds line.

I've just looked at the map, and such a curve would still serve Oxford via Oxford Parkway. However, much of the trackbed looks like it is underneath all the roundabouts and dual carriageways around the North Oxford area.

More seriously, I just come back to my earlier post. I realise we are talking about 2040, but it takes time to get things in place. I would still urge OxRail2040 to include resilience and the workability of what we already have as part of their plans. And in my mind, that means half-hourly, cross-country, reliable 10-coach trains with decent rolling stock.

OxRail2040 should also be campaigning hard to get to Cambridge. With the public purse as it is, there's always a risk the line will not be completed. And the dispute over the current (lack of) service from Oxford to Milton Keynes is not a good look when asking the government to further expand the rail system.
 

The Planner

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Crayons at the ready - wait for it - how about reopening the spur off the Cotswolds line and on to East West rail. Chiltern could revisit running to Kidderminster, but instead via Worcester. It might also take some of the pressure off overcrowding, where a heavily-used Cotswolds line train arrives in Oxford to a platform full of extra passengers also wanting London.
Good luck doing that now since all the road changes in the early 90s to facilitate the upgrade up to the M40.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

How does the suggestion that the Cowley branch will have 2 passenger trains per hour fit in with the existing car traffic?
It has one in and out a day, the local gets binned for it or it gets agreed to run it overnight.
 

Merle Haggard

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snip

It has one in and out a day, the local gets binned for it or it gets agreed to run it overnight.

Thanks (Plus the 2 LE moves). A sad shadow of MAT/STVA & Rover Group days.

Didn't know whether the freight was being dismissed in all the enthusiasm, but happily sounds like the same arrangement as Bathgate or Tower Colliery/Aberdare of long ago. Without freight it would not have been practical to run passenger trains again
 

ox_chap

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OK, so just announced are new BEMUs for transpennine. And they should be in service in 2034. That’s not too far from 2040. Can OxRail2040 start requesting a follow on order for Cross Country. And longer than five carriages please….
 

The Planner

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OK, so just announced are new BEMUs for transpennine. And they should be in service in 2034. That’s not too far from 2040. Can OxRail2040 start requesting a follow on order for Cross Country. And longer than five carriages please….
OxRail can ask for whatever they want, they won't be paying and won't be running the trains. Ergo, they have as much clout as you and I.
 

fishwomp

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As Oxford station will clearly need more platforms.... Bring back Rewley Road! (along of course with the swing bridge)
Well..

Funny how history repeats itself - the original EWR Varsity line approached from the north into Oxford came from Bletchley, and its first terminus was Banbury Road, more or less the exact site of Oxford Parkway . When Oxford-Marylebone opened in 2015-ish,... Oxford-Oxford Parkway wasn't ready, so Parkway became a terminus again - so we have definitely got that station back.

For the south, they'll need to put a station on Marlborough Road/Grandpont, I've not seen any proposal for that yet ;)
 

cle

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So you'd be running a Paddington - Moor Street when (if) the Didcot services are ever joined back up?

Not merging this with the London-Didcot service post-electrification would be a bit of a waste. Appleford is a small village but Radley and Culham would get a lot more than 100k annual users if they had frequent London services, as they're the main railhead for Abingdon (and still would be for southbound traffic even if Abingdon gets a rail link, as such a rail link would point towards Oxford not London). If the Oxford-Banbury stopper remains attached to it, it'd mean you'd have to use a BEMU or bi-mode which would be more useful elsewhere.

I support the London-Didcot semi EMU going back to Oxford and terminating there, in an electrified P4. That should not be a debate, it's correcting what has become a long term triage.

But if so, I would not thread it into any of the Banbury shuttle / Stratford / Moor St options. I would leave it alone. Those DMU local services, which could still absorb several short shuttles, might be able to fit into Cowley as a third tph? And provide more use for local/regional folks re the jobs on that route.

Or London-Oxford second fast goes to Banbury - but I suspect the Cotswolds will one day go towards 2tph, even if Hanborough but ideally to Worcester at least.
 

MarkyT

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The 8km from Aynho to Banbury is neatly split up by the M40, twice. Not easy to four track.
The northern M40 bridge near Banbury appears to have been built for future widening. The southern bridge near Kings Sutton can only take two tracks. The four tracks through Banbury might be extended to just south of Kings Sutton station, which could be rebuilt with platforms only on reliefs/slows. That would leave a double track section through the bridge to Aynho of around one mile, likely manageable.
 

The Planner

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The northern M40 bridge near Banbury appears to have been built for future widening. The southern bridge near Kings Sutton can only take two tracks. The four tracks through Banbury might be extended to just south of Kings Sutton station, which could be rebuilt with platforms only on reliefs/slows. That would leave a double track section through the bridge to Aynho of around one mile, likely manageable.
It wasn't, its for farm access either side of the tracks to get between fields at the north end.
 

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