Proposed new Channel Tunnel services discussion

[Trainlog]

It might be more of an interchange compared to a typical rural station but it's much closer to being one than it is to being an urban station which is where high-speed rail is intended to serve. HS1 services can easily expand without having international services serving them unless you want to include low-cost operations like Ouigo or Avlo that trade convenience for cheaper pricing. But nobody wants to front the cost to do so because the catchment simply isn't worth it.

The catchment of Ashford International is more than just East Kent; it covers towns from Maidstone, Tonbridge, the Wealden towns, and Tunbridge Wells in Mid to West Kent, and the Marshlink towns of Rye, Hastings, and Eastbourne in Sussex.

Ashford is probably one of the best towns in Kent road-wise, so it's not hard to imagine that there would be those who would drive in and park up at Ashford International as well. It is arguably the central hub station for Kent's mainlines, with only the Chatham mainline missing from Ashford.

Empties will no longer be allowed into Ashford International.

Without wishing to rain on anyone's parade.....

Its looking like Eurostar are completely pulling out of Ashford at the beginning of October, allegedly.

Can we have the source for that please? I didnt find anything looking that up.

 

[Cach17]

The catchment of Ashford International is more than just East Kent; it covers towns from Maidstone, Tonbridge, the Wealden towns, and Tunbridge Wells in Mid to West Kent, and the Marshlink towns of Rye, Hastings, and Eastbourne in Sussex.

Ashford is probably one of the best towns in Kent road-wise, so it's not hard to imagine that there would be those who would drive in and park up at Ashford International as well. It is arguably the central hub station for Kent's mainlines, with only the Chatham mainline missing from Ashford.

Better yet if Southern restored direct Ashford to Brighton trains...

Can we have the source for that please? I didnt find anything looking that up.

I second this. @LoonyToon please give us a source.

 

[LoonyToon]

Trust me bro

In all seriousness, there has been an internal communication. Eurostar hasn't officially announced it as of yet!

 

[Mikey C]

Eurostar have been trying to make as much money as possible, while doing as little as possible. There wouldn't be the demand for other operators if ES were trying to grow the market.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Empties will no longer be allowed into Ashford International.

By Eurostar or by HS1?

 

[LoonyToon]

Eurostar are relinquishing their rights to use Ashford International.

 

[Zomboid]

Better yet if Southern restored direct Ashford to Brighton trains.

Brighton has direct trains to St Pancras, though. Admittedly the likes of Lewes doesn't, but it's probably still faster to change at Gatwick for St Pancras than go via Eastbourne for Ashford.

 

[NCT]

https://www.railjournal.com/innotrans-2026/fs-confirms-start-date-for-paris-london-service/

Behind a paywall. Key points:
- FS confirms Paris - London launch in 2029.
- They have ordered the ETR1000 rolling stock, which will need a few modifications for Chunnel operation.
- They say they have allowed for buffer in the train certification process.
- Track Access through the Chunnel is the 'major remaining hurdle'.
- They think they'll get there 'well before Virgin'.
- They plan on running an hourly London - Paris service.

If the hourly London - Paris comes to pass, then FS and Eurostar will probably saturate the London - Paris market and HS1 capacity, leaving no room for Virgin?

 

[ABB125]

https://www.railjournal.com/innotrans-2026/fs-confirms-start-date-for-paris-london-service/

Behind a paywall. Key points:
- FS confirms Paris - London launch in 2029.
- They have ordered the ETR1000 rolling stock, which will need a few modifications for Chunnel operation.
- They say they have allowed for buffer in the train certification process.
- Track Access through the Chunnel is the 'major remaining hurdle'.
- They think they'll get there 'well before Virgin'.
- They plan on running an hourly London - Paris service.

If the hourly London - Paris comes to pass, then FS and Eurostar will probably saturate the London - Paris market and HS1 capacity, leaving no room for Virgin?

An hourly service? That's rather frequent. Excellent

 

[zwk500]

https://www.railjournal.com/innotrans-2026/fs-confirms-start-date-for-paris-london-service/

Behind a paywall. Key points:
- FS confirms Paris - London launch in 2029.
- They have ordered the ETR1000 rolling stock, which will need a few modifications for Chunnel operation.
- They say they have allowed for buffer in the train certification process.
- Track Access through the Chunnel is the 'major remaining hurdle'.
- They think they'll get there 'well before Virgin'.
- They plan on running an hourly London - Paris service.

If the hourly London - Paris comes to pass, then FS and Eurostar will probably saturate the London - Paris market and HS1 capacity, leaving no room for Virgin?

Will be interesting to see their depot plans, and how that impacts on their first/last services.

 

[NCT]

Remind me (sorry if it's already been covered in the 90 pages) - is stabling overnight in St Pancras platforms technically possible?

 

[Trainbike46]

Remind me (sorry if it's already been covered in the 90 pages) - is stabling overnight in St Pancras platforms technically possible?

Yes. Eurostar does this on occasion

 

[SynthD]

Yes. Eurostar does this on occasion

Is there a maximum on how many can be occupied? Such as one must be empty for inspection?

 

[NCT]

Eurostar's London - Paris is already slightly better than hourly. There are also some disgustingly inefficient turnarounds in current schedules*. I wonder if FS's announcement will prompt Eurostar to squeeze out some additional frequency from their existing resources.

* Looking at today's RTT, 1-hour turnarounds seem to be the norm, but there are several 1.5h or even longer turnarounds. There's also the isolated 30-minute turnaround too.

 

[zwk500]

Is there a maximum on how many can be occupied? Such as one must be empty for inspection?

The Current Engineering Access Statement requires 3 platforms to be available for access each night (either 5-7 or 8-10). This ensures that if work is needed on platforms 6-9 then there will be no train on the adjacent track.

 

[NCT]

If FS parks up two sets for 2 morning departures, then the 3rd service of the day can reasonably be formed from a Paris arrival.

 

[speedy1]

A Frecciarossa in the UK! Plus the ability to get to Italy from London only on Italian trains! I would LOVE to see that! Very exciting.

 

[Sorcerer]

Well I must say that I'm quite surprised. Are these just ambitions or have they actually gained approval from relevant authorities? Is the ORR likely to approve track-access over Virgin given that they just allowed them depot space at Temple Mills? It's not to say you couldn't have three operators running on the London to Paris market but I think you'd be struggling for capacity, especially when it comes to border security and turnaround times at St Pancras (yet again I must lament how much easier this would be if we were in Schengen).

 

[D6130]

Remind me (sorry if it's already been covered in the 90 pages) - is stabling overnight in St Pancras platforms technically possible?

Yes. Eurostar does this on occasion

The Current Engineering Access Statement requires 3 platforms to be available for access each night (either 5-7 or 8-10). This ensures that if work is needed on platforms 6-9 then there will be no train on the adjacent track.

I was speaking with a Eurostar driver friend yesterday evening and he told me that they were currently stabling four trains overnight at St Pancras.

 

[Snow1964]

If FS parks up two sets for 2 morning departures, then the 3rd service of the day can reasonably be formed from a Paris arrival.

Because France is an hour ahead time zone, would work as third train would have arrived from France.

I guess it is possible the early trains might start from a station on interconnection line, rather than Paris Nord, based on the location of the depot, although can't at this stage rule out first train towards London daily, starting from an overnight outstation on French side.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Because France is an hour ahead time zone, would work as third train would have arrived from France.

I guess it is possible the early trains might start from a station on interconnection line, rather than Paris Nord, based on the location of the depot, although can't at this stage rule out first train towards London daily, starting from an overnight outstation on French side.

Unlikely, you would have to provide the border control facility - you could start from Lille I guess.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Eurostar's London - Paris is already slightly better than hourly. There are also some disgustingly inefficient turnarounds in current schedules*. I wonder if FS's announcement will prompt Eurostar to squeeze out some additional frequency from their existing resources.

* Looking at today's RTT, 1-hour turnarounds seem to be the norm, but there are several 1.5h or even longer turnarounds. There's also the isolated 30-minute turnaround too.

Important perhaps to remember how strict UK requirements are regarding border security, how much of a Eurostar turnaround involves a security sweep of an arrived train?

 

[NCT]

Important perhaps to remember how strict UK requirements are regarding border security, how much of a Eurostar turnaround involves a security sweep of an arrived train?

Given that one hour seems to be the norm, and half an hour is observed, I think it reasonable to conclude anything over and above one hour is not as a result of security requirements.

 

[Krokodil]

Important perhaps to remember how strict UK requirements are regarding border security, how much of a Eurostar turnaround involves a security sweep of an arrived train?

If they can get a train turned around in an hour, they can get any of them turned around in an hour. Some trains are booked to sit for two-and-a-half hours.

 

[martin2345uk]

Could trains be stabled overnight in the international platforms of Stratford/Ebbsfleet if there's insufficient space at St Pancras?

 

[Transilien]

Eurostar are relinquishing their rights to use Ashford International.

If Eurostar weren’t an open access operator this probably wouldn’t be the case…

 

[30907]

If they can get a train turned around in an hour, they can get any of them turned around in an hour. Some trains are booked to sit for two-and-a-half hours.

That gives a lot of flexibility for unit swaps, and for running extra trains compared with the base timetable. Routinely ES runs half hourly on Paris and even extras to Brussels.

 

[Krokodil]

That gives a lot of flexibility for unit swaps

They've got a depot at Temple Mills for that!

and for running extra trains compared with the base timetable

I wish that they'd run more trains in the base timetable. Currently ES appear to be taking advantage of their monopoly position to restrict the number of trains they run from one day to the next such that they can obtain the highest price for tickets. I don't blame them for acting in their own commercial interests, but it's a sign of why competition is needed.

 

[30907]

They've got a depot at Temple Mills for that!

But that's 20min away

 

[Snow1964]

SBB (Swiss National Railways) has apparently agreed to procure 21 high speed train sets with tender in first half of 2027 for International services. They will be bought not leased. Initial International services suggested include London and Barcelona.

Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) has decided to purchase 21 high-speed trains to expand its international passenger services. The company will also secure options to purchase a further 20 trains, depending on how demand develops and the network’s future needs.

The decision, announced on 24 September, follows several months of analysis regarding the financing and procurement of the trains. According to SBB, the direct purchase of the trains can be financed under its long-term investment plan and is more cost-effective over their entire service life than a leasing arrangement.

SBB intends to launch the tender for the high-speed trains in the first half of 2027.

The decision to purchase the trains also gives the company greater flexibility in developing its international services. SBB believes that owning its own rolling stock will facilitate collaboration with European rail operators and enable it to adapt more quickly to changes in demand for cross-border travel.

The new trains are primarily intended to develop connections to Italy and France. The initial plans also mentioned possible links to other European destinations, such as Barcelona and London.

https://www.railwaypro.com/wp/switzerland-decides-to-purchase-up-to-21-high-speed-trains/