Northern Explorer for 2 persons; valid for one to travel alone?

[Harpers Tate]

1 -day Northern Explorer £35 for one person; £60 for 2 persons.

If the two persons are joining exactly the same itinerary at different places (i.e one begins travel at an earlier station than the other; they meet en route) can the one person make that first part of the journey alone using a 2-person ticket? Ditto when ending the day out.

 

[Watershed]

I don't see why not. The conditions just state:

Multi-person tickets cover all passengers on a single ticket and require all passengers to travel together.

Which doesn't say you must have the same number of passengers as you booked. Such a limitation would need to be spelled out in the terms to be effective.

Obviously you couldn't have the two holders each travelling on their own at the same time.

 

[The exile]

I don't see why not. The conditions just state:


Which doesn't say you must have the same number of passengers as you booked. Such a limitation would need to be spelled out in the terms to be effective.

Obviously you couldn't have the two holders each travelling on their own at the same time.

There would be an obvious issue if the later boarder is doing so at a barriered station (and a theoretical one in a penalty fare area)

 

[Harpers Tate]

There would be an obvious issue if the later boarder is doing so at a barriered station (and a theoretical one in a penalty fare area)

Valid, yes, thanks. As it so happens the second station in question isn't in this specific case.

 

[Harpers Tate]

The situation never arose in fact so the answer is moot. We did, however have "a bit of fun" using the ticket.

It was a bit of a struggle to get the right ticket issued at Sheffield in the first place. We were initially quoted a lower price (£18-odd?) each. Not knowing exactly what that ticket was we declined and after intervention by another member of staff eventually found the right thing. As stated in the website T&C we were issued one paper ticket which clearly stated "2PPL" on it.

We travelled on a through train from Sheffield to Scarborough and returned breaking our journey in Hull. We were inspected three times during this itinerary.

Conductor 1: QR code scan, looks at reader screen, and asks where the other person's ticket is. Pointed out the wording on the ticket; "OK, fine, thanks".
Conductor 3: ditto.

Conductor 2: No, you should have been issued a ticket each. Hostile manner. Pointed out the ticket wording and described the website T&C as being the reason we weren't expecting to get two coupons. No change in attitude or position. S/he showed me the QR scanner screen which stated on it "One Adult" (which presumably explains the reaction in all three cases) but when s/he tried to hide behind "I've been doing this job for x-teen years" I lost any confidence. QR scanners have not been around that long, and this ticket has only been on sale for a month or so - so where's the relevance?

Anyhow the conversation ended with my asking, pleading, with him/her to please go and check independently. Grunted hostile response to that and no eye contact.

However some time later s/he returned to our seat with an apology. S/he had actually done some checking and had seen the same website's T&C. So, right outcome in the end, but that initial hostility wasn't justified.

Whoever coded the screen response on the QR machines has got that bit wrong. How long before it's corrected and how long before someone has to go through the rigmarole of contesting a penalty?

 

[Llandudno]

The situation never arose in fact so the answer is moot. We did, however have "a bit of fun" using the ticket.

It was a bit of a struggle to get the right ticket issued at Sheffield in the first place. We were initially quoted a lower price (£18-odd?) each. Not knowing exactly what that ticket was we declined and after intervention by another member of staff eventually found the right thing. As stated in the website T&C we were issued one paper ticket which clearly stated "2PPL" on it.

We travelled on a through train from Sheffield to Scarborough and returned breaking our journey in Hull. We were inspected three times during this itinerary.

Conductor 1: QR code scan, looks at reader screen, and asks where the other person's ticket is. Pointed out the wording on the ticket; "OK, fine, thanks".
Conductor 3: ditto.

Conductor 2: No, you should have been issued a ticket each. Hostile manner. Pointed out the ticket wording and described the website T&C as being the reason we weren't expecting to get two coupons. No change in attitude or position. S/he showed me the QR scanner screen which stated on it "One Adult" (which presumably explains the reaction in all three cases) but when s/he tried to hide behind "I've been doing this job for x-teen years" I lost any confidence. QR scanners have not been around that long, and this ticket has only been on sale for a month or so - so where's the relevance?

Anyhow the conversation ended with my asking, pleading, with him/her to please go and check independently. Grunted hostile response to that and no eye contact.

However some time later s/he returned to our seat with an apology. S/he had actually done some checking and had seen the same website's T&C. So, right outcome in the end, but that initial hostility wasn't justified.

Whoever coded the screen response on the QR machines has got that bit wrong. How long before it's corrected and how long before someone has to go through the rigmarole of contesting a penalty?

Although the guard did have the guts to apologise which is good to see..

 

[bcarmicle]

For a normal ticket, BR Fares will show:

Passengers per ticket:​

1 adult OR 1 child​

So I thought maybe Northern had accidentally put that in the data feed for Northern Explorers, and that would be why the guard in question got shown the wrong information. But interestingly, that field doesn't show for Rovers/Rangers: https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=Z064.

Perhaps someone who knows the intricacies of the data feed can share if it's just BR Fares not showing it, or if Rangers/Rovers truly don't have that information attached to the ticket?

Separately, I suspect the mistakenly offered fare was the Northern Explorer 55 West Day Ranger for £19.20: http://www.railrover.org/pages/northern-explorer-55-west-day-ranger.html

 

[zero]

Is it not possible for these sorts of tickets to be configured to print two coupons?

A while back my wife and I used a similar ticket in Scotland which was for two people but came as one CCST. All staff inspecting the ticket initially did not realise that it said 2 adults or whatever, until we invited them to look more closely.

If it had come as two coupons we could have gone through barriers individually. It did open barriers but 2 people going through together obviously looks suspicious!

 

[TUC]

Interesting that you hit some challenges as I used a Northern Explorer several months ago which was inspected multiple times on trains and at gatelines and I had no difficulties, and also none in getting it issued.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Is it not possible for these sorts of tickets to be configured to print two coupons?

Yes. There's a "Group Size" setting in fares data specifically for that purpose.

For example, an LNER Family ticket from Kings Cross to Edinburgh for 1 Adult and 2 Children shows the group size requirement on BRFares as "Passengers per ticket: 1 Adult AND 2 Children."

 

[185143]

Although the guard did have the guts to apologise which is good to see..

Indeed!

Though as the OP rightly says, that doesn't really excuse the initial hostility. I, like I suspect most others, instantly switch off when I hear "I've been doing this job for X years" to justify why they must be right, in any industry.

I've had a few members of staff over the years where I've presented something unusual and they've either asked me more about it, or said they need to check it, and accepted it no problem. All the time in the world for that attitude. That's due diligence and good customer service. Had a good chat with an Arriva bus driver in Chester once, showed a North+Mid Wales flexi rover. He wasn't aware of the bus validity, but happily accepted it when I showed the Arriva Trains Wales website, then asked for more information about the ticket as he suspected it would be useful for him to visit family within the area of rail validity!

On the flip side, I had a random combination of tickets on a Sheffield-Manchester TPE a few years back. One was a season so perfectly valid for non stop splits. The guard challenged that, as I had experienced a few times. But rather than saying "oh yeah, forgot that one" or similar, he then proceeded to try and pick apart each of my tickets, before walking away with his tail between his legs when I produced the leaflet for the Derbyshire Wayfarer which proves TPE do indeed accept it.