Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising

[TheGrandWazoo]

It closed in 2011 and accordingly to Google now houses

I don't believe it is. There's new development in the area but that's a large new warehouse next door and the Arriva depot is now used for storing cars and trucks IIRC.

Difficult to tell exactly how well they are doing at the start of the new era. Someone on the ground would be best to determine. BusTimes gives quite a bit of flavour but there may be vehicles not tracking.

Quite - it's a major shake-up and it'll take a few days or weeks for things to settle down. Some drivers may have elected to stay with Arriva and transfer to other depots too.

 

[Halwynd]

He was the transport secretary, but I recall it was Margaret Thatcher that said/inferred that you were a failure if you didn’t drive your own car by the age of 25!

I concur with 6 Gman. It was neither Thatcher or Ridley, it was the Labour Party trying to cause mischief by quoting a previous Duchess of Westminster.

Just as the Labour Party and the press came up with the phrase 'Thatcher Thatcher Milk Snatcher'. Thatcher herself argued in cabinet against getting rid of free milk altogether. It was a policy driven by the Treasury, first under Iain Macleod, then Anthony Barber, which, under cabinet rules of collective responsibilty, Thatcher was obliged to implement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2026 ==

Ah - the great Nicholas Ridley. A man whose ideology was far ahead of its time. After all, it was he who advised the unemployed to "Get on your bike". Not in their cars, nor even public transport systems, but bicycles. Good for health benefits, too.

Norman Tebbit.

Just shows how mudslinging sticks, even decades later...

 

[far]

I have to goto Wigan from St Helens on Wednesday and normally the Arriva LCR+ day ticket would cover me (320 from Haydock to city centre - I could ride it the other way out to Wigan but it would be fare evasion) then a 352 out to Wigan and the reverse back to town. However, is there a day ticket that covers the whole area now or is it all just LCR only?

 

[Fokx]

I have to goto Wigan from St Helens on Wednesday and normally the Arriva LCR+ day ticket would cover me (320 from Haydock to city centre - I could ride it the other way out to Wigan but it would be fare evasion) then a 352 out to Wigan and the reverse back to town. However, is there a day ticket that covers the whole area now or is it all just LCR only?

The Solo covers all Metro operated services, even those that cross-boundary

 

[markymark2000]

The Solo covers all Metro operated services, even those that cross-boundary

If only the high and mighty took the time to get the website updated to reflect that, rather than shoving themselves infront of cameras bosting about how good they all are.....

Merseytravel Solo Ticket Prices

Find out more about Merseytravel Solo tickets; bus only tickets for the Liverpool City Region.

www.merseytravel.gov.uk

Where can I use it?​

Solo tickets are valid across Merseyside. If your journey crosses the Merseyside boundary into Cheshire, Halton, Greater Manchester or Lancashire you must pay the extra fare from the boundary.

 

[far]

The Solo covers all Metro operated services, even those that cross-boundary

Will Saveaway tickets be valid on the buses too at Wigan, Warrington, Widnes and Runcorn too?

 

[Fokx]

Will Saveaway tickets be valid on the buses too at Wigan, Warrington, Widnes and Runcorn too?

No. Only the Solo and only on Metro operated or franchised services such as the 30, 320, 322 and 352.

 

[johncrossley]

No. Only the Solo and only on Metro operated or franchised services such as the 30, 320, 322 and 352.

Where does it say Solo only? The link above said "All tickets purchased on a Metro bus or through Merseytravel are valid on Metro Network services that cross over from the Liverpool City Region into other areas", so that includes Saveaway and Trio as well.

 

[Statto]

Looks like the X3 has had a late route change as this was the original route

St Helens X3 060926.pdf

drive.google.com

This is now the new route

https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/X3-6Sep26.pdf

I went on the X3 yesterday, the 11.59 from St Helens to the Airport & to my surprise a few others boarded & stayed on through to the Airport too, think it was a case of a few trying out the route for the first time.

It was chaos yesterday as reliability took a hit, the 352s were up the wall, one journey took 85 minutes from Wigan to St Helens, the 320 was all over the place too.

Saw an Ultroliner with a fault at Wigan that required the fitter, saw another Ultroliner with hazards on in Blackbrook, a driver trying to get the grips of an E200MMC in St Helens, it was showing 352 instead of 320 cue a bit of comedy with the driver trying to change the blind with the vehicle refusing to co-operate

Both 320 & 352 have mixed Ultroliner, E200MMC allocation during the week

 

[far]

I finally found this PDF which summarises the situation and it is confusing. MerseyTravel tickets are valid on the whole 320 route but only the Merseyside section of the 612. They are not valid on the 61 or 329 past the boundary into Warrington though but are valid into Warrington on the 322. They are valid on the whole 157 route as well which includes Ashton as well as the entirety of the 34 route all the way to Leigh.

 

[johncrossley]

I finally found this PDF which summarises the situation and it is confusing. MerseyTravel tickets are valid on the whole 320 route but only the Merseyside section of the 612. They are not valid on the 61 or 329 past the boundary into Warrington though but are valid into Warrington on the 322. They are valid on the whole 157 route as well which includes Ashton as well as the entirety of the 34 route all the way to Leigh.

There are no surprises here. All buses franchised by Liverpool City Region accept Merseytravel tickets on the whole route. Other routes only accept Merseytravel tickets in Merseyside, which is the same as before franchising.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There are no surprises here. All franchised buses accept Merseytravel tickets on the whole route. Other routes only accept Merseytravel tickets in Merseyside, which is the same as before franchising.

It IS slightly confusing. If you catch a 320 or 352 from St Helens to Wigan, a Merseytravel ticket is valid throughout but not on a 612.

Surely one of the benefits of franchising was to remove such anomalies?

 

[Statto]

I finally found this PDF which summarises the situation and it is confusing. MerseyTravel tickets are valid on the whole 320 route but only the Merseyside section of the 612. They are not valid on the 61 or 329 past the boundary into Warrington though but are valid into Warrington on the 322. They are valid on the whole 157 route as well which includes Ashton as well as the entirety of the 34 route all the way to Leigh.

Good find, i suspect validity on the whole cross boundary route is whether the route is operated under Metro banner or not why the 34, 157, 320, 322, 352, tickets are valid throughout, were as 61, 329, 612 they're only valid in the Merseyside area as they're not operated by Metro

Maybe worth downloading this pdf as proof, as you're going to get arguments with drivers as to what's valid or not.

 

[far]

There are no surprises here. All buses franchised by Liverpool City Region accept Merseytravel tickets on the whole route. Other routes only accept Merseytravel tickets in Merseyside, which is the same as before franchising.

But the 612 is a franchised service is it not?

 

[Man of Kent]

But the 612 is a franchised service is it not?

It's part of the Bee Network franchise, not this one.

 

[johncrossley]

But the 612 is a franchised service is it not?

Yes, by TfGM. I do think there needs to be a smoother transition between franchised areas. This is going to be an ongoing issue as more and more areas are franchised. Ideally both TfGM and Merseytravel tickets should be valid on the whole route on cross boundary franchised routes between the two regions.

 

[TheSel]

It IS slightly confusing. If you catch a 320 or 352 from St Helens to Wigan, a Merseytravel ticket is valid throughout but not on a 612.

Surely one of the benefits of franchising was to remove such anomalies?

Is it really confusing? Any more so than, say, buying a day return with Northern Rail from Manchester to Leeds via Bradford, and it not being valid to return on TransPennine via Huddersfield?

Or not being able to use Morrisons supermarket vouchers at Tesco?

The only "confusion" stems from ignorance, assumption or failure to understand the nature of the product in question.

 

[Djgr]

Is it really confusing? Any more so than, say, buying a day return with Northern Rail from Manchester to Leeds via Bradford, and it not being valid to return on TransPennine via Huddersfield?

Or not being able to use Morrisons supermarket vouchers at Tesco?

The only "confusion" stems from ignorance, assumption or failure to understand the nature of the product in question.

There will always be anomalies at boundaries (try England/Wales) but areas cannot simply stretch for ever.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is it really confusing? Any more so than, say, buying a day return with Northern Rail from Manchester to Leeds via Bradford, and it not being valid to return on TransPennine via Huddersfield?

Or not being able to use Morrisons supermarket vouchers at Tesco?

The only "confusion" stems from ignorance, assumption or failure to understand the nature of the product in question.

The train one is also probably a bit confusing to the layperson. What we are saying is that you can get on one yellow bus but not another yellow bus (and as I said, it is only slightly confusing).

Agree with @Djgr that boundaries are often where there can be issues but in this instance, inter-availability on these routes between two franchise areas really should be soluble.

 

[Fokx]

The train one is also probably a bit confusing to the layperson. What we are saying is that you can get on one yellow bus but not another yellow bus (and as I said, it is only slightly confusing).

Because one is a Merseytravel metro service and the other is a Bee Network service.

Bee Network tickets aren't valid between the Manchester boundary and Merseyside either

It's pretty straightforward.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Because one is a Merseytravel metro service and the other is a Bee Network service.

Bee Network tickets aren't valid between the Manchester boundary and Merseyside either

It's pretty straightforward.

Yes... to us public transport devotees.

 

[far]

Yes... to us public transport devotees.

Because one is a Merseytravel metro service and the other is a Bee Network service.

Bee Network tickets aren't valid between the Manchester boundary and Merseyside either

It's pretty straightforward.

I know more than one person who got the Bee Network, yellow Arriva and Warrington's own buses confused so this will happen. There's (currently) no tap and go on the Merseytravel buses either which feels like we've gone back to the dark ages again. I'll now need to plan ahead and think about where I'm going and buy a ticket accordingly. The Merseytravel tickets don't cover buses to Runcorn or Warrington (apart from 1 per hour to/from Haydock) whereas Arriva did. I'm afraid this is yet another case of someone meddling for what they think is the common good without thinking. I've heard so many reports of the 320s being full to standing due to lack of seats and breakdowns. The latter one would hope is just teething trouble but I fear the rest is just poor planning.

 

[Djgr]

Is it really confusing? Any more so than, say, buying a day return with Northern Rail from Manchester to Leeds via Bradford, and it not being valid to return on TransPennine via Huddersfield?

Or not being able to use Morrisons supermarket vouchers at Tesco?

The only "confusion" stems from ignorance, assumption or failure to understand the nature of the product in question.

There will always be anomalies at boundaries (try England/Wales) but areas cannot simply stretch for ever

I know more than one person who got the Bee Network, yellow Arriva and Warrington's own buses confused so this will happen. There's (currently) no tap and go on the Merseytravel buses either which feels like we've gone back to the dark ages again. I'll now need to plan ahead and think about where I'm going and buy a ticket accordingly. The Merseytravel tickets don't cover buses to Runcorn or Warrington (apart from 1 per hour to/from Haydock) whereas Arriva did. I'm afraid this is yet another case of someone meddling for what they think is the common good without thinking. I've heard so many reports of the 320s being full to standing due to lack of seats and breakdowns. The latter one would hope is just teething trouble but I fear the rest is just poor planning.

It's been announced that Tap and Go will be introduced in LCR when franchising is completed next year.

 

[mangad]

. I'm afraid this is yet another case of someone meddling for what they think is the common good without thinking.

So, what is the solution? And, importantly, how do you apply it consistently across the whole metro network (and Bee Network, and Warrington)

 

[Fawkes Cat]

. There's (currently) no tap and go on the Merseytravel buses either which feels like we've gone back to the dark ages again.

It's been announced that Tap and Go will be introduced in LCR when franchising is completed next year.

Are these correct? What I see on the Merseytravel website at https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travel-updates/bus-changes/new-tickets-and-prices/ is

(...)Just a single journey - pay the capped £2 single fare on board the vehicle by cash, card or contactless device.
(...)
Once the full network has been brought back into public control in Autumn 2027, fare capped tap-and-go ticketing – which will mean passengers always pay the best fare for their journeys – will be rolled out.

Which to me says that tap and go (without capping) should be available now. If it's not, then that's an awful failure, but will it be long term or is it just transitional?

 

[6Gman]

I concur with 6 Gman. It was neither Thatcher or Ridley, it was the Labour Party trying to cause mischief by quoting a previous Duchess of Westminster.

Just as the Labour Party and the press came up with the phrase 'Thatcher Thatcher Milk Snatcher'. Thatcher herself argued in cabinet against getting rid of free milk altogether. It was a policy driven by the Treasury, first under Iain Macleod, then Anthony Barber, which, under cabinet rules of collective responsibilty, Thatcher was obliged to implement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2026 ==



Norman Tebbit.

Just shows how mudslinging sticks, even decades later...

And, of course, Tebbit didn't say "get on your bike". He said that when his father lost his job "he didn't riot, he got on his bike" to seek new employment.

 

[Dibuzz]

It was chaos yesterday as reliability took a hit, the 352s were up the wall, one journey took 85 minutes from Wigan to St Helens, the 320 was all over the place too.

Saw an Ultroliner with a fault at Wigan that required the fitter, saw another Ultroliner with hazards on in Blackbrook, a driver trying to get the grips of an E200MMC in St Helens, it was showing 352 instead of 320 cue a bit of comedy with the driver trying to change the blind with the vehicle refusing to co-operate

Both 320 & 352 have mixed Ultroliner, E200MMC allocation during the week

It wasn't much better today, 320 left the bus station and broke down at the next stop. We all got off and waited for the next one then they said it was ok to go again.
A bus spotter neighbour told me the single deckers are fine but the doubles keep breaking down.

 

[danbarjon]

Looks like the X3 has had a late route change as this was the original route

St Helens X3 060926.pdf

drive.google.com

This is now the new route

https://merseytravel.adidocdn.dev/timetables/Bus/X3-6Sep26.pdf

I went on the X3 yesterday, the 11.59 from St Helens to the Airport & to my surprise a few others boarded & stayed on through to the Airport too, think it was a case of a few trying out the route for the first time.

It was chaos yesterday as reliability took a hit, the 352s were up the wall, one journey took 85 minutes from Wigan to St Helens, the 320 was all over the place too.

Saw an Ultroliner with a fault at Wigan that required the fitter, saw another Ultroliner with hazards on in Blackbrook, a driver trying to get the grips of an E200MMC in St Helens, it was showing 352 instead of 320 cue a bit of comedy with the driver trying to change the blind with the vehicle refusing to co-operate

Both 320 & 352 have mixed Ultroliner, E200MMC allocation during the week

Yeah they have added the stop in Ditton on the X3, it's a 2 in 1 it adds a stop in Ditton and removes the chaos of the Tarbock Island roadworks.

 

[Polarbear]

Are these correct? What I see on the Merseytravel website at https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travel-updates/bus-changes/new-tickets-and-prices/ is


Which to me says that tap and go (without capping) should be available now. If it's not, then that's an awful failure, but will it be long term or is it just transitional?

Prior to the 6 September changes, Arriva operated “tap & go” on their Merseyside services, and indeed still do on non-franchised services. Stagecoach didn’t offer this.

 

[Statto]

It wasn't much better today, 320 left the bus station and broke down at the next stop. We all got off and waited for the next one then they said it was ok to go again.
A bus spotter neighbour told me the single deckers are fine but the doubles keep breaking down.

I know the 320 being every 15 minutes to Ashton with a bus every 30 continuing to Wigan is the standard Monday to Friday timetable, but i wonder if they should have stuck with the school holiday frequency of every 20 minutes through to Wigan with no Ashton shorts until the evening service, as i see the 320 is every 20 minutes through to Wigan on Saturdays with no Ashton shorts until evening.

I wonder if the 352 evening & Sunday frequency could be increased to every 30 minutes, that's currently every 60 minutes which feels inadequate as that serves a large area in Billinge & Orrell.