northernhunter
New Member
As seen on RTT today, the local service between York and Leeds, which is normally operated by Northern, is being replaced by TPE. Is this a temporary change?
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TPE replaces Northern for York to Leeds local service?
- Thread starter northernhunter
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Iskra
Established Member
Interesting. Presumably this allows Northern to strengthen services elsewhere. If so, it’s a good bit of joined up thinking.
Yes, it happens every so often during the TRU works.
It's a great idea in pricniple, however - as is often the case with the GB rail network - it is spoilt by the lack of provision to avoid passengers being overcharged when this occurs.
Northern Only tickets are quite expensive at £15.20 for an Off Peak Day Return (CDR), but if you think that's bad, the Any Permitted is extortionate at £20.20 for a CDR, and it is the higher price that booking sites will charge for use of these trains, i.e. an overcharge of £5.
The overcharge for returning a different day off peak is £4, while the overcharge for returning a different day anytime is £5.40
I would assume that tickets/passes that are restricted to Northern Only would in fact be deemed valid, and accepted for use on, these trains, however I am unsure if any official guidance has been issued to staff instructing them of this. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if some staff accept the tickets that are normally valid on these trains, while other staff don't.
TPE has a very mixed bag of Guards; while many are very customer-focussed, pragmatic, sensible and friendly, some never check tickets, and some I could see trying to charge people for an entirely new ticket!
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On the Calder Valley side there's a half past the hour TPE calling at various including Rochdale and Tod and Brighouse round to Huddersfield. This is pretty tame compared to the weird wonderful trains of the past year my favourite being the Scarborough train giving the good folks of Castleton a direct train to the seaside!
dodecahedron67
Member
Whenever TPE operate the stopping service York - Leeds, Northern Only tickets are accepted but only on the all stops service - they remain invalid on the expresses unless anything has changed since the last time this happened
Far too sensible a solution to the problem hence why it probably won’t be adopted!
It's still correct.
Good luck to the general public knowing that though. I don't know how anyone would possibly know.
D1537
Established Member
And yet this morning's first Manchester-Leeds service was a single 195/0, and the conductor had to apologise for the crowding "as we're missing some carriages".
Harpers Tate
Established Member
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There is precedent for exactly this. When the Cleethorpes <> Barton-on-Humber branch was Northern's*, it routinely:
- used a TPE 185 set and crew on the first round trip of the day (presumably to "condition it" ready for the rest of the day's long trips to Liverpool).
- used a Northern 153 (usually) but with a TPE crew the rest of the day.
Done for operational convenience, since at the time Northern had no other presence in Cleethorpes (aside from the Sat only service from Sheffield) and hence no Northern crew were based there.
* Now operated by EMR regional.
Mercifully looks like they found another three-car for it to attach to when it got back to Manchester (or maybe the three-car had some Gremlins first thing).
Boothby97
Established Member
The use of a 185 on the first working was because the timetable could be served by the single 153 all day (two hourly from 0700 to 2100, with a round trip taking just under two hours). However, the first service was earlier (0600 ex-Cleethorpes), therefore requiring a second unit for a brief period. There would be a 185 spare at Cleethorpes which could work this trip as it was not required until the Manchester bound departure at 0826 (or thereabouts, departure time varied by a few minutes over the years).
The more recent occasion of a 185 being drafted in for a Barton line working was just before Northern lost the route to EMR, the last service (2104 CLE-BAU and return) utilised a spare 185 that would otherwise be stabled at Cleethorpes. That days 153 then heading back on the 2117 to Lincoln to get it back onto Northern territory by going onto a Lincoln-Sheffield service.