I agree that most MCTs are fine, my problem is if they start getting made longer to cater for people who find them stressful. I also think the cost (in journey time and therefore custom) of MCTs that are too long is often underestimated. An overly generous MCT causing the journey planner to dismiss a perfectly reasonable hourly connection can easily convince someone to switch to the car.
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Specifying additional connection time - how should this work?
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Haywain
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As could a shorter MCT causing someone to miss an hourly connection.
Which is why you have to ask the traveller how much risk they're willing to take / how much they're willing to rush!
Never going to be acceptable to the industry which has obligations on compensation and accommodation etc if you miss it.
Agreed. There are some cross-London MCTs that do need looking at but these are a samll minority. A bizarre one is the absence of an official connection between Finsbury Park and Vauxhall.
I assume this comment is aimed at me given I've said in this thread (and other similar ones) that many people find travelling by train an anxious experience.
For the avoidance of doubt I do not want minimum connection times to be made longer and, with a few exceptions they are about right. What I will point out again is:
- Minimum Connection Times have to be set so that they can be achieved by the majority of the travelling public
- Whilst there should be a better facility for additional time to be specified in journey planners, the vast majority of people should be able to rely on the default minimum connection time
- Minimum connection times should not rely on being at a particular set of train doors, running across a station, up or down escalators etc. Yes, some people might be able to do this but it should not be expected or relied upon in journey planners
- 'Us' on here are experts in train travel. Don't underestimate the anxiety that many normal people suffer when they travel by train. Whether it be the risk of being 'fined' for having the wrong ticket, what happens if I miss my train, will I get a seat etc etc. Many people think minimum connection times are too short - I don't agree but I do understand why some people think like this.
Can you give some examples of where you think MCTs are too long? I think Kings Cross to Waterloo at 53 minutes is a bit too long, especially compared to Kings Cross to Victoria at 41 minutes, but Kings Cross to Waterloo does involve a change from Victoria to Bakerloo Lines which probably explains the additional time.
Haywain
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I think we also have to recognise that not everybody will use what we think is the obvious route, so might need more time because of that.
Agreed. You only need to look at the number of times we get asked that question on this forum, which will be a tiny number of overall people making that connection.
JBuchananGB
Established Member
Slightly off topic, but my main gripe on connection times is the MCT between Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western which means that a connection achievable by a normal able-bodied person from an arrival at the former to a departure at the latter, e.g. arrive WGW (from Southport) at 12.03, depart WGN 12.13 is not allowed. (MCT is 11 minutes) Instead to catch the 12.13 service to London, it is necessary to arrive at WGW at 11.35 and wait over 30 minutes.
Today the 12.03 arrival was 2 minutes late, but then again the 12.13 departure was 7 minutes late.
Even with the half-hour wait, this is still a very quick way from Southport to London, just 3h10m, but it could be quicker!
Today the 12.03 arrival was 2 minutes late, but then again the 12.13 departure was 7 minutes late.
Even with the half-hour wait, this is still a very quick way from Southport to London, just 3h10m, but it could be quicker!
tumbledown
Member
Is not allowed in what sense? You don't have to buy tickets against an itinerary, and if multiple tickets are involved you can buy them separately to accomodate your quicker connection time.
If you're using a flexible ticket then the minimum connection time doesn't really matter.
But if you're using Advance tickets, where you are required to travel on the specified booked train, you could purchase separate tickets to obtain connection time below the official minimum but in the event of a delay, which caused you to miss your connection, then you wouldn't be allowed to travel on a later train.
Also, before someone else points it out, you can only claim delay repay if your itinerary complies with the relevent minimum connection times where you change trains.
Anything involving approaching Liverpool Street on the circle line from the West going into the mainline platforms. I'm specifically thinking of Euston to Liverpool Street but I assume it applies to kings cross st pancras and probably farringdon? 15 mins to go between those platforms (which only involves about 10 steps) is frankly ridiculous.
This is exactly my problem. Being forced to watch a train that could get you to your destination an hour earlier (I am connecting into a branch line train that is hourly) leave without you because your ticket isn't valid on it is frustrating to say the least.
Perhaps an alternative would be to make advance tickets also valid on earlier services on connecting legs.
SaltAndVinegar
Member
They generally already are.
Most retailers don't automatically trust NRE itineraries.Yeah that's already broken really, because the National Rail website lets you specify 120 minutes, but for the journey I chose (Chester to Hawarden Bridge changing at Shotton) it defaulted to Transport for Wales as the operator.
When I clicked the button to buy tickets, it took me to the TfW website with a blank search form, effectively starting me from scratch. The TfW website allows 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 45, 60, not 120 (though you can fudge that one by changing `interchange_adjustment_time` in the POST request body)
Someone here could probably list the TOCs that do, but by far the most effective way to buy a ticket in conjunction with a customised itinerary is to use a Trainsplit powered site (such as the forum's ticketing site).
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Arguably '& connections ' tickets already are, but yes the rules should be clearly stated to be in passengers favour, as it's not always clear and obvious.
Until / unless it is made clearer, I would strongly recommend people obtain the itinerary they wish to follow before making a purchase, to avoid any such doubts.
Not across London in my experience. Which is when it's most important since (some of) the cross London connection times are the most inflated.
You could argue that this is the price you pay for the saving you made by buying an Advance ticket: if you had a more flexible ticket, that train wouldn't have to leave without you.
It's not an ideal, nor customer-friendly, situation, of course, but that's typical of the appalling rail system that we have in the UK.