Passports Required from 28 September for Ferry Travel Republic of Ireland to Great Britain

[Flying Snail]

In other words, if the OP has not omitted any other relevant information, the ferry companies decided to interpret "a document that confirms your identity and nationality." as "passport", which is clearly nonsense.

Easily fixed. Try to board a ferry without a passport, then take them to court. This is a civil matter, nothing to do with the government.

Take them to court for what? The ferry company are entitled to require customers to present passports if they want, they have given notice of this change in terms and if you turn up and are refused because you have not met their terms then you have no valid claim.

 

[43096]

Easily fixed. Try to board a ferry without a passport, then take them to court. This is a civil matter, nothing to do with the government.

You might find it is in the T&Cs. If you don't read the terms - or ignore them - that's your problem and you don't have a claim.

 

[Magrar]

The ferry company are entitled to require customers to present passports if they want

Are you sure? On what grounds is a mere private transport company entitled to know such a personal private thing as your nationality, a thing which could grant them great power to discrimate against you, if the law covering their trade doesn't otherwise require it? Least of all where there is a specific treaty between the company's two operating areas that says it is not required (and which also, as I pointed out, does not appear to be contradicted by the new identity check requirement of the Border Force)

 

[signed]

Are you sure? On what grounds is a mere private transport company entitled to know such a personal private thing as your nationality, a thing which could grant them great power to discrimate against you, if the law covering their trade doesn't otherwise require it? Least of all where there is a specific treaty between the company's two operating areas that says it is not required (and which also, as I pointed out, does not appear to be contradicted by the new identity check requirement of the Border Force)

Because they are a private companies

And a private company can basically do anything with their terms, as long as it applies to everyone, which in this case it does.

In the UK, there is no legal requirement to present ID on domestic flights yet all airlines have in their terms that you must present ID bar exceptional circumstances (like children)

The CTA treaty only applies to 2 nationalities, both nationalities only have passport (/passport card for IE) as proof of nationality. Sure you can legally rock up with a naturalization cert or a pre-2005 Irish Birth Certificate but nobody would do this unless it’s for children.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Are you sure? On what grounds is a mere private transport company entitled to know such a personal private thing as your nationality, a thing which could grant them great power to discrimate against you, if the law covering their trade doesn't otherwise require it? Least of all where there is a specific treaty between the company's two operating areas that says it is not required (and which also, as I pointed out, does not appear to be contradicted by the new identity check requirement of the Border Force)

The Common Travel Area doesn’t actually have a single formal treaty. It also doesn’t appear to explicitly disbar identity checks, as these have been used by both sides at various times and in various forms. Border security officers of the various jurisdictions can and do ask for identification to prove that a traveller has the right to avail themselves of the privileges of the CTA.

What the CTA does more explicitly allow is the unrestricted right for British and Irish nationals to live, work, use public services and vote in the UK and Ireland (the main exception I can see is British nationals cannot vote in EU elections or Irish constitutional referenda, which is fair).

As described by the Irish high court judge Mr Justice Hogan in relation to air passengers:

The practical result of this is that all persons arriving by air from the United Kingdom face Irish immigration controls. While in theory both Irish and British citizens are entitled to arrive here free from immigration control by virtue of the common travel area, increasingly in practice such passengers who arrive by air from the United Kingdom are required to produce their passports (or, at least, some other form of acceptable identity document) in order to prove to immigration officers that they are either Irish or British citizens who can avail of the common travel area.[59][60]

This is now being extended to ferry passengers, because as previously mentioned by @signed, the only realistic way to prove Irish or British nationality on request is by producing a passport for one of those to countries, unless you are one of a few niche cases, and even then a passport is significantly more convenient.

 

[etr221]

My understanding is that the CTA (as such), which also includes the Isle of Man and Channel Islands, only covers travel, and relaxed checks on travellers - it came down to us, back in 1922-23, deciding we didn't want to establish a 'hard' border (with checks everywhere) between the (then new) Irish Free State (no longer part of the UK) and Northern Ireland (still part of it). There are many other agreements between the UK and the Republic of Ireland, and elements within the legislation of both countries, giving British and Irish citizens rights (not always fully reciprocated) in each others countries, that all go to make Ireland a peculiarly semi-detached part of the British Isles - as it has been for centuries, the various treaties, conflicts and other reorganisations merely having changed the terms of the relationship.

 

[Tester]

In summary, you need to show a passport to prove that you don't need to show a passport

 

[Trainbike46]

Can't EU citizens use an ID card if they have settled status? The link above only mentions passports.

Based on the wording, they cannot, though that may be the document that proves their right to be in the UK, so not accepting it would be a rather odd policy, and actually stricter than for arrivals from outside the CTA, which is a rather unacceptable oversight by whoever wrote the policy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Saturday at 18:57 ==

In summary, you need to show a passport to prove that you don't need to show a passport

The sensibilities of modern travel!

Honestly I don't understand why people seem so relaxed about this, it's clearly taking away people's rights, and for no real benefit.

 

[Ken X]

My only experience of this policy re ID is regarding the Channel Islands.

I was working at Gatwick and had, on occasion, to pop over to the Channel Islands at very short notice.

If I wanted to use Easyjet I needed a passport. British Airways only required a driving licence. As I was carrying my driving licence and my passport was at home BA it was. Present myself at BA and grab the next available seat.

As others have said, their ball, their rules. Didn't get stressed about it just played the game.

 

[Egg Centric]

So to be clear, you'll need a passport between the Republic of Ireland and GB?

But not, erm, Northern Ireland and GB?*

And there's no passport needed between Northern Ireland and Ireland. And of course there's @Tetchytyke's little rock...

Well, this should achieve a lot.


*I'm assuming from the lack of riots/violent threats

 

[AlterEgo]

No passport is needed to travel over the land border between the Republic and NI (though in theory spot checks could happen), and no passport is needed to travel from NI to mainland GB. It's the magic door as it was for loads of people coming from "red countries" during the farcical travel restrictions in covid.

 

[Magrar]

No passport is needed to travel over the land border between the Republic and NI (though in theory spot checks could happen), and no passport is needed to travel from NI to mainland GB. It's the magic door as it was for loads of people coming from "red countries" during the farcical travel restrictions in covid.

I am a UK citizen whose passport has expired but still has a valid UK drivers license, and if they cared to check, a UK address that has been my sole residence for tax and banking purposes for over a year.

Although not legally required to do so, I carry my drivers license for work purposes, so I can (and will) produce it if requested in a legal manner. Such as by an agent of the UK Border Force manning a temporary check point.

To suggest this is insufficient to travel across the land border between Northern Ireland and the rest of Ireland, is ever so slightly ludicrous to me. I think it says a lot that nobody has yet found an official quote or document that says this is the reality of identity checks requirements in the CTA now. Passport or nothing.

 

[Snow1964]

My only experience of this policy re ID is regarding the Channel Islands.

Had to show a passport to travel on the La Gomera to Tenerife ferry in Canaries (don't know if it applies to all inter-island ferries)

Basically they know African migrants will try and use boats to a quiet port or beach, then use that as a back door to enter the unchecked area.

Guess it is same idea.

 

[djox]

I wouldn't be surprised if this change is used by UK Government for any push for Scotland independence, let's say if Northern Ireland is still part of UK, they will say look there won't be free travel anymore from Scotland to NI and you'll need passports from Cairnryan to Larne. I see the Eng/Scotland land border being same as Ire/NI one.

 

[dub_boi]

It has been suggested that the change by Stena was requested by UK Border Force in response to holes in the UK’s ETA system. As part of the implementation of the ETA scheme, UK dual nationals are not allowed to enter the UK with an ETA on their non-UK passport but must instead present a UK passport. The Independent carried a story in March about the “Dublin Dodge” where dual citizens without a current UK passport were flying to Ireland on their non-UK passport and then travelling to GB either via NI or by ferry as no checks were made: https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...DpSJQwx-vHF6SouQaA_aem_vTnbnnU1VeUnaxF9ebjkYA
However even after this Stena change, the “Dublin Dodge” is still possible by taking a BA flight from Dublin or by travelling via NI.

Curiously, while I was picking up my Sail + Rail ticket at the Stena Line terminal at Dublin Port 2 weeks ago, the Stena staff member at the adjoining desk was refusing to sell a foot passenger ticket to GB as the prospective passenger did not have a passport. The staff member suggested that he travel with Irish Ferries instead or get the train to Belfast and travel from there. The Ts&Cs on my booking said "Irish and British citizens travelling on our Irish Sea routes do not need a passport to travel to Britain or Ireland but are advised to take a form of identity." The prospective passenger didn't speak much English so perhaps the staff had asked him if he was an Irish or British citizen and once he had said no insisted on a passport.

It's all just a form of theatre when the UK has a straggling 500km border with 200 *official* crossing points with an EU state...

 

[Watershed]

It's all just a form of theatre when the UK has a straggling 500km border with 200 *official* crossing points with an EU state...

I agree - yes this will catch out some people who are abusing the CTA to enter the UK illegally.

But it'll do nothing to stop those who do even a tiny bit of research. It will have a significant impact on people who don't know about the change and get stranded, and those who can't get a passport in time. There'll be some can't get a passport easily because of personal circumstances, e.g. being unable to get hold of their birth certificate or not knowing anyone who can countersign their application. Others simply can't afford the cost, which adds up if you're a large family for example.

 

[speedy1]

It's all just a form of theatre when the UK has a straggling 500km border with 200 *official* crossing points with an EU state...

This sounds like the usual argument against security efforts of: if you can't have perfect security, you shouldn't bother, which is usually quite untrue.

Not saying you did, but anyone else, it would be quite naughty to blame the UK gov alone for incompetence or impotence here when there is, as I understand it, significant history regarding the border, and many political concerns and legal blockers by perhaps multiple parties. Minor fixes is sometimes all you can do in such situations where the 'proper' fix is basically impossible

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Independent carried a story in March about the “Dublin Dodge” where dual citizens without a current UK passport were flying to Ireland on their non-UK passport and then travelling to GB either via NI or by ferry as no checks were made

Anyone in that position can still get an ETA as long as they don’t say they’re a UK national on the form. If someone doesn’t have a UK passport and says on the ETA that they’re not a UK national then there’s a very high chance nobody would ever be any the wiser.

I think it’s more for the theatre of being tougher on something which is supposedly a back door but isn’t really in any meaningful sense. Ireland isn’t part of Schengen, non-EU nationals can’t enter Ireland without a visa, and for non-EU nationals the visa rules in Ireland broadly align with those in the UK.

This sounds like the usual argument against security efforts of: if you can't have perfect security, you shouldn't bother, which is usually quite untrue.

The border situation in Ireland is politically sensitive.

They can’t start routinely demanding papers between Ireland and NI as that would upset one community, and if they started doing it between NI and GB that would upset the other community.

But the fact remains that this whole thing is completely pointless as a result of that border.

So to be clear, you'll need a passport between the Republic of Ireland and GB?

But not, erm, Northern Ireland and GB?*

And there's no passport needed between Northern Ireland and Ireland. And of course there's @Tetchytyke's little rock...

It’s all just pointless theatre, there’s political noise that it’s a loophole and so they’re being tough on it. Or something.

Anyone in this position can just take a coach for two hours up the N1/A1 and get a ferry from Belfast or Larne instead. There isn’t a ferry from Dublin to IOM at present otherwise, yes, that would have been an option too.

 

[Romsey]

I'd be unsurprised if you got the same response from a consultation done on the Isle of Wight, to be honest, and that's just Hampshire! (Well, I think it's a unitary now, but you get the idea).

There are border checks, but they're not visible.

It's how to wind up "Oveners" queueing for the ferry that there may be a passport check when they arrive at Cowes .....
By the way Hampshire hasn't gone over to unitary councils yet and the Isle of Wight will remain as a separate area council. ( The Romans were right - "Vectis Insularis" )