London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[D1537]

Darlington-Edinburgh 13 August

First opportunity to sample the first class lounge at Darlo. Quite small (but I suppose it doesn't need to be that big). Free water, biscuits and crisps. Coffee machine wasn't working.

Train was 1S09. Very busy - nearly every seat taken. Got a coffee straight away. Food orders taken on departing Newcastle, was expecting the dish menu but it was Signature and still on breakfast. Would normally have had the full LNER but we had a restaurant booked in Glasgow at 4.30 so thought I'd better not. Had the bacon roll, my wife had the avocado toast which she was very complimentary about. Also had a couple of cans of the IPA. Train was on time, so couldn't fault it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No special attention for the wheelchair passengers, which I know can't be an expectation at all but seemed a bit mean.

I can't speak for other people, but if I were disabled and received a better service just because of that, I'd probably actually find that quite patronising and annoying. People don't want to be treated differently just for a disability, better OR worse.

 

[speedy1]

I can't speak for other people, but if I were disabled and received a better service just because of that, I'd probably actually find that quite patronising and annoying. People don't want to be treated differently just for a disability, better OR worse.

Fair enough. I guess I was just thinking about the times that standard class wheelchair users very happily accepted drinks and snacks on TPE for example. I didn't mean being fawned over

Would you reject food and drinks and be annoyed at the host for that and their warm welcome?

 

[Haywain]

Fair enough. I guess I was just thinking about the times that standard class wheelchair users very happily accepted drinks and snacks on TPE for example. I didn't mean being fawned over

If the company or its staff have upgraded them, by accommodating them in the first class wheelchair space, they are entitled to the same as any other passenger in first class.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Fair enough. I guess I was just thinking about the times that standard class wheelchair users very happily accepted drinks and snacks on TPE for example. I didn't mean being fawned over

Would you reject food and drinks and be annoyed at the host for that and their warm welcome?

No but I would feel odd if no one else got it yet I did.

 

[Willie Bee]

On Wed 11 Nov, my wife and I shall be travelling from York to Newcastle on LNER

There are two options, (see image) at the same price.

One has DISH menu and the other SIGNATURE

Which would folk here pick .. I always thought the fancy Signature meal was only for journeys of over an hour

 

[voyagerdude220]

On Wed 11 Nov, my wife and I shall be travelling from York to Newcastle on LNER

There are two options, (see image) at the same price.

One has DISH menu and the other SIGNATURE

Which would folk here pick .. I always thought the fancy Signature meal was only for journeys of over an hour

Maybe try to contact LNER beforehand to see what is likely to be offered between York and Newcastle?

I suppose you could book the Signature train (if you're not bothered about timings) and hope for the best with them both being the same price.

I suspect you're right that they wouldn't offer you the full Signature menu between York and Newcastle, but I'm no expert when it comes to LNER.

 

[Justin Time]

On Wed 11 Nov, my wife and I shall be travelling from York to Newcastle on LNER

There are two options, (see image) at the same price.

One has DISH menu and the other SIGNATURE

Which would folk here pick .. I always thought the fancy Signature meal was only for journeys of over an hour

My understanding is that you’re not guaranteed anything if your journey time is less than 60 minutes. The one a hour fast, non stop train is well under 60 minutes.
When LNER were doing the scheduled York-Newcastle shuttles last year there was nothing more offered than a hot drink and a biscuit.

 

[A S Leib]

I thought first class tickets used to include entry to LNER lounges for an hour after the journey, which isn't currently mentioned on their station pages for Newcastle or York. Is there no post-journey entry, and has that always be the case (as more or less the only time I've used an LNER lounge was with a fifty-minute connection from Newcastle to Selby at York, so I might be misremembering)?

 

[Justin Time]

I thought first class tickets used to include entry to LNER lounges for an hour after the journey, which isn't currently mentioned on their station pages for Newcastle or York. Is there no post-journey entry, and has that always be the case (as more or less the only time I've used an LNER lounge was with a fifty-minute connection from Newcastle to Selby at York, so I might be misremembering)?

That’s a fair comment, it’s 2 hours before and 1 hour after, but I understood the question to be about the on train offering. Happy to be corrected though.

 

[speedy1]

Why, when LNER have the technical ability to show the right menu for the journey, on their own website, do they choose to falsely advertise the offering?

 

[A S Leib]

That’s a fair comment, it’s 2 hours before and 1 hour after, but I understood the question to be about the on train offering. Happy to be corrected though.

This is a separate question; I'm considering a first class journey from Durham to Newcastle now that the IC225s are back on that route, and just wanted to see how much it would be worth buying an advance ticket and risking it being swapped for an Azuma* compared to buying a flexible ticket and getting less value out of it.

*I don't have particular complaints with them myself, beyond the novelty factor of having travelled in the former far less.

 

[Justin Time]

Why, when LNER have the technical ability to show the right menu for the journey, on their own website, do they choose to falsely advertise the offering?

Haven’t got a clue what you’re on about, but I’ve never seen LNER falsely advertise anything.

 

[speedy1]

Haven’t got a clue what you’re on about, but I’ve never seen LNER falsely advertise anything.

Ah great. The user a couple of posts back can expect the Signature menu to be served between York and Newcastle then, as advertised in the journey planner.

 

[Egg Centric]

This is a separate question; I'm considering a first class journey from Durham to Newcastle now that the IC225s are back on that route, and just wanted to see how much it would be worth buying an advance ticket and risking it being swapped for an Azuma* compared to buying a flexible ticket and getting less value out of it.

*I don't have particular complaints with them myself, beyond the novelty factor of having travelled in the former far less.

You could always travel to Leeds and take one from there where you have options if one is substituted. Either going to Leeds in cattle class in which case it's reasonably cheap, or take the opportunity to make it a rail gourmet tour and sample TPE's first menu as well which imo is better than LNER's (and maybe return on Cross Country to try one which definitely didn't used to be, but I understand now does curry!).

 

[A S Leib]

or take the opportunity to make it a rail gourmet tour and sample TPE's first menu as well which imo is better than LNER's

I think that would be more expensive than I'd particularly want to spend on one day's travelling, even knowing that I'd then hopefully be spending less on food elsewhere, but trying TPE's and CrossCountry's first class menus is something I'd like to do at some point.

(I suppose one option to get around that would be to get a first class Interrail pass, at which point a journey like Newcastle – York – Manchester – Birmingham – London – Channel Tunnel would be possible and pay for itself on the Avanti and Eurostar legs.)

 

[WesternLancer]

I think that would be more expensive than I'd particularly want to spend on one day's travelling, even knowing that I'd then hopefully be spending less on food elsewhere, but trying TPE's and CrossCountry's first class menus is something I'd like to do at some point.

(I suppose one option to get around that would be to get a first class Interrail pass, at which point a journey like Newcastle – York – Manchester – Birmingham – London – Channel Tunnel would be possible and pay for itself on the Avanti and Eurostar legs.)

I thought TPE food and service was good and worth it.

Not sure what cross country is like now. A few years ago I had an xc curry meal and it was one of the worst such on board meals I’d ever tasted. The steward was embarrassed about how bad it was!

 

[VT 390]

On Wed 11 Nov, my wife and I shall be travelling from York to Newcastle on LNER

There are two options, (see image) at the same price.

One has DISH menu and the other SIGNATURE

Which would folk here pick .. I always thought the fancy Signature meal was only for journeys of over an hour

If you are after any hot food options I would pick the Dish service as it can be unpredictable how quickly they come round for food orders and serve the hot options, although in my experience after York northbound they are usually good at coming round withing around 10 minutes.
While you may be able to get the Signature option depending on the staff, they do note your seat number down (for delivering the food) and I have been asked before how far I was travelling based off the reservation display when ordering Signature items, I was on split tickets at the time but you would only be going to Newcastle so do consider this.

Do note that the LNER menu identified on their booking page only shows the menu booked for the service not necessarily what you will be served for your journey, a good example of this is that if you search Haymarket to Edinburgh it still shows Signature for the Inverness service even though it is only a 4/6 minute journey.

 

[Deerfold]

Haven’t got a clue what you’re on about, but I’ve never seen LNER falsely advertise anything.

I think that adverts to "book a seat in this service up to 10 minutes before departure" when staff on board already know there's a set change and the entire train will not have reservations may count.
These occur fairly frequently.
Staff have told me there's nothing they can do about these adverts showing.

 

[Clansman]

Signature menu is just the Dish menu but with morning additions of a full cooked breakfast, and afternoon additions of Chicken Supreme and Lemon Tart dessert. That’s all it is. Same drinks, same rest of the menu, same experience.

The 60 minute rule is arbitrary and is a guide, particularly if the whole first class is being served at that point. It’s there to set expectations, because let’s be honest if you’re only on for half an hour and they’re cooking chicken from raw and you’re sat in K, you’re not going to have the time. Nothing false advertising about it.

From York to Newcastle, most passengers will have already been served food after Kings Cross, so as long as there’s chicken left, it’ll most likely be cooked and ready to dish out within that 50 minutes.

The only exception is if there’s no chicken left, or if too many passengers board at York to offer the full 2 course signature in that time frame.

At the end of the day it's complimentary, so in black and white terms you're not paying for it and it is a gesture of goodwill by LNER that catering is provided in First Class. So that gives them more reign to advertise and sometimes be wrong when the offer changes, than if you were genuinley paying for it as a condition of your ticket. But some people will moan either way so there's no right or wrong way to go about it all given what is logistically possible and the potential for disruption.

 

[D6130]

Signature menu is just the Dish menu but with morning additions of a full cooked breakfast, and afternoon additions of Chicken Supreme and Lemon Tart dessert. That’s all it is. Same drinks, same rest of the menu, same experience.

The 60 minute rule is arbitrary and is a guide, particularly if the whole first class is being served at that point. It’s there to set expectations, because let’s be honest if you’re only on for half an hour and they’re cooking chicken from raw and you’re sat in K, you’re not going to have the time. Nothing false advertising about it.

From York to Newcastle, most passengers will have already been served food after Kings Cross, so as long as there’s chicken left, it’ll most likely be cooked and ready to dish out within that 50 minutes.

The only exception is if there’s no chicken left, or if too many passengers board at York to offer the full 2 course signature in that time frame.

I thought the food - with the exception of the breakfasts - was cook-chilled on shore and then just re-heated on the train?

 

[Clansman]

I thought the food - with the exception of the breakfasts - was cook-chilled on shore and then just re-heated on the train?

In the past this has sometimes been the case with some menus (such as the sausage rolls, mac and cheese, etc).

But the current signature option, the Chicken Supreme, comes on raw in air-tight bags. The potatoes are pre-sliced and frozen, and the white wine sauce is from Knorr which is just a standard pre-made preserved sauce that is cooked on the hob then mixed in with the cooked chicken fat to thin it out. The broccoli is also uncooked and gets washed and boiled onboard. The last menu with the Steak came on raw as well.

On the dish menu the toasties are also uncooked with the exception of the chicken inside it which is pre-cooked and shredded, but everything else in it gets cooked in the oven. The pasta is just from ping-meal containers in single portions, but crews can choose their own ways to cook it - usually in the oven. Some chefs put 10 portions in a pot on the hob, other crews microwave them.

 

[WesternLancer]

In the past this has sometimes been the case with some menus (such as the sausage rolls, mac and cheese, etc).

But the current signature option, the Chicken Supreme, comes on raw in air-tight bags. The potatoes are pre-sliced and frozen, and the white wine sauce is from Knorr which is just a standard pre-made preserved sauce that is cooked on the hob then mixed in with the cooked chicken fat to thin it out. The broccoli is also uncooked and gets washed and boiled onboard. The last menu with the Steak came on raw as well.

On the dish menu the toasties are also uncooked with the exception of the chicken inside it which is pre-cooked and shredded, but everything else in it gets cooked in the oven. The pasta is just from ping-meal containers in single portions, but crews can choose their own ways to cook it - usually in the oven. Some chefs put 10 portions in a pot on the hob, other crews microwave them.

Interesting to read all that.

 

[D6130]

In the past this has sometimes been the case with some menus (such as the sausage rolls, mac and cheese, etc).

But the current signature option, the Chicken Supreme, comes on raw in air-tight bags. The potatoes are pre-sliced and frozen, and the white wine sauce is from Knorr which is just a standard pre-made preserved sauce that is cooked on the hob then mixed in with the cooked chicken fat to thin it out. The broccoli is also uncooked and gets washed and boiled onboard. The last menu with the Steak came on raw as well.

On the dish menu the toasties are also uncooked with the exception of the chicken inside it which is pre-cooked and shredded, but everything else in it gets cooked in the oven. The pasta is just from ping-meal containers in single portions, but crews can choose their own ways to cook it - usually in the oven. Some chefs put 10 portions in a pot on the hob, other crews microwave them.

Thanks for that. I shall be travelling on the 12 03 King's Cross to Inverness on Friday 18th September and returning South - via Carstairs and Carlisle on the 07 55 from Inverness the following (Saturday) morning. Any idea what level of catering I can expect in first class please?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Thanks for that. I shall be travelling on the 12 03 King's Cross to Inverness on Friday 18th September and returning South - via Carstairs and Carlisle on the 07 55 from Inverness the following (Saturday) morning. Any idea what level of catering I can expect in first class please?

A quick look on the LNER website shows "Signature" northbound on Weekdays and the "Dish" southbound on Saturdays.

First Class Snacks | LNER

www.lner.co.uk

First Class Dish Menu | LNER

www.lner.co.uk

 

[Clansman]

Thanks for that. I shall be travelling on the 12 03 King's Cross to Inverness on Friday 18th September and returning South - via Carstairs and Carlisle on the 07 55 from Inverness the following (Saturday) morning. Any idea what level of catering I can expect in first class please?

A quick look on the LNER website shows "Signature" northbound on Weekdays and the "Dish" southbound on Saturdays.

First Class Snacks | LNER

www.lner.co.uk

First Class Dish Menu | LNER

www.lner.co.uk

Indeed.

Signature on weekdays and Dish on weekends. But Signature can drop down to Dish if there is any crew absences (even if there is a chef) at the discretion of the crew, so hopefully it will all go smoothly.

 

[D6130]

A quick look on the LNER website shows "Signature" northbound on Weekdays and the "Dish" southbound on Saturdays.

First Class Snacks | LNER

www.lner.co.uk

First Class Dish Menu | LNER

www.lner.co.uk

Indeed.

Signature on weekdays and Dish on weekends. But Signature can drop down to Dish if there is any crew absences (even if there is a chef) at the discretion of the crew, so hopefully it will all go smoothly.

Thanks both!

 

[speedy1]

At the end of the day it's complimentary

We've read that party line from the TOCs a 1000 times and it really doesn't need rehashing now or any time in the future. It's an attempt to steer the conversation away from advertising law at minimum.

Anyway, I shall ignore the condescending cliches and just agree to disagree