Sign language on train route information displays (and station departure boards)

[Justin Smith]

We went to Doncaster today and I was a bit surprised, to put it mildly, to see the information on the trains route information displays in sign language (it was a Northern class 150). Then at the station most of the departure boards also had the same sign language on the dsiplays. Basically it was, one assumes, just repeating what was in the writing just above it, so can anyone tell me what the point of it is ?
Particularly on the train, where the screen was right in front of us, I must confess I found it a bit distracting !

Funnily enough whilst eating in the Subway at Doncaster station two ladies came in and sat down next to us. One of them happened to be deaf so I asked what the sign language was saying. The hearing lady told me her friend could not understand it as it was "British Sign Language" and her friend uses "Makaton" !

 

[_toommm_]

BSL is different to spoken/written British English. A lot of people think it's just signing what you and I may speak, but it is in fact its own language with its own grammatical rules and vocabulary. Whereas English uses Subject, Verb, Object (SVO) for its sentence structure broadly, BSL doesn't. People who are born deaf will learn BSL first then sometimes learn English as a second language. As such, a deaf person may not understand 'This train is currently being delayed due to a person being hit by a train earlier today' written on a PIS on a platform., but will understand however that sentence would be formulated in BSL.

Makaton and BSL are both sign languages, but their own separate languages. Some signs are interchangeable, but Makaton is a very simplified language system, often used by people with learning difficulties. In BSL, you can form full sentences, and it has signs for conjunctions, verbs, all pronouns etc., but Makaton only has signs for the main points in a sentence. My brother uses it as he has autism and severe learning difficulties, so instead of signing 'I need to go to the toilet', he will just sign 'toilet'. For an idea of what Makaton is, have a look at the series 'Something Special' on CBeebies.

 

[Justin Smith]

BSL is different to spoken/written British English. A lot of people think it's just signing what you and I may speak, but it is in fact its own language with its own grammatical rules and vocabulary. Whereas English uses Subject, Verb, Object (SVO) for its sentence structure broadly, BSL doesn't. People who are born deaf will learn BSL first then sometimes learn English as a second language. As such, a deaf person may not understand 'This train is currently being delayed due to a person being hit by a train earlier today' written on a PIS on a platform., but will understand however that sentence would be formulated in BSL.

Makaton and BSL are both sign languages, but their own separate languages. Some signs are interchangeable, but Makaton is a very simplified language system, often used by people with learning difficulties. In BSL, you can form full sentences, and it has signs for conjunctions, verbs, all pronouns etc., but Makaton only has signs for the main points in a sentence. My brother uses it as he has autism and severe learning difficulties, so instead of signing 'I need to go to the toilet', he will just sign 'toilet'. For an idea of what Makaton is, have a look at the series 'Something Special' on CBeebies.

Very interesting.
How many people learn only sign language and not normal written English ? Surely anyone taking that option would severely limit their options in (and enjoyment of) life ?

 

[Lockwood]

To extend that, it is a form of accessibility that does not cost much to implement but avoids excluding the deaf community.

As stated, Makaton is very different from BSL, which is completely different to ASL (More than British English and American English being different in places, BSL and ASL are unintelligible). Makaton is very simplified compared to a "full" sign language - not to belittle it, it is the right tool for its job and the accessibility there.

I've tried to pick up some basic BSL, and I cannot absorb it. I remember the syntax being very different to English.
"Name me F R E D. Name you what?"
"Tea coffee which?"

As Tom says, for people who grew up learning BSL, English is a second language.

I've seen the sign language displays at large stations, I've not seen any on trains (but I don't get to travel by train much now). But this is a positive thing - having the announcement as audio, text, and translated to BSL is very inclusive. And unlike the audio ones, you can face a different direction if you don't want to see them?

 

[AlterEgo]

Very interesting.
How many people learn only sign language and not normal written English ? Surely anyone taking that option would severely limit their options in (and enjoyment of) life ?

People do learn written English but there are challenges with teaching deaf people a written and ordinarily spoken language. Something like 80,000 people learn BSL as their first language.

 

[renegademaster]

I know it sounds crass, but from a utilitarian perspective the people with physical disabilities must be much higher than the people who can't read text but can understand BSL.

Its a nice gesture but I feel the budget would be much better spent on fitting some Harrington humps or opening more toilets. Although hopefully the cost is pretty small If the TV screens where going to be ordered anyway.

 

[800001]

I know it sounds crass, but from a utilitarian perspective the people with physical disabilities must be much higher than the people who can't read text but can understand BSL.

Its a nice gesture but I feel the budget would be much better spent on fitting some Harrington humps or opening more toilets. Although hopefully the cost is pretty small If the TV screens where going to be ordered anyway.

The platform screens were fitted long before LNER thought about adding sign language to the screens.

After the initial cost of filming the person doing the sign language, there really isn't much other cost to add.

If the information helps even 1 person with there journey then I think that it's a very good initiative.

 

[Justin Smith]

The platform screens were fitted long before LNER thought about adding sign language to the screens.

After the initial cost of filming the person doing the sign language, there really isn't much other cost to add.

If the information helps even 1 person with there journey then I think that it's a very good initiative.

I cannot agree. I would love to know how much it cost, I'd be amazed if it were not tens of thousands of pounds, more probably hundreds of thousands, and that's if the cost of the displays capable of accepting video is ignored. BTW, why else would they need those kind of displays ? Furthermore it takes up a significant amount of the display room on the VDUs thus limiting how much other info can be shown, e.g. requiring multiple pages to display the same info and and thus having to wait for "your" page to come up. Lastly, if I am honest I find it distracting, and I am not likely to be the only one, though I may be the only one brave enough to admit it ! Funnily enough just the other week me and some friends were discussing the accidental recording of programmes on the TV which have sign language in the bottom corner and if we then proceed to watch the programme or just delete it. Most of us did the latter because we find it distracting, or even, dare I say it, annoying.

 

[Lockwood]

I think the "announcements are too loud" thing gets done a lot here.

I am amazed at a "silent announcements are annoying" one as well!

The BSL screens at Waterloo - I find them to be not at all annoying.
The crowds of people barging past at Waterloo - very annoying.
The screaming kid that seems to follow you around everywhere at Waterloo - annoying.

And if a little person in the corner of the screen offends you that much watching TV, I envy you not having anything more significant to worry about

 

[InkyScrolls]

As someone with profoundly deaf relatives who struggle with English, seeing BSL around brings me much joy.

 

[800001]

I cannot agree. I would love to know how much it cost, I'd be amazed if it were not tens of thousands of pounds, more probably hundreds of thousands, and that's if the cost of the displays capable of accepting video is ignored. BTW, why else would they need those kind of displays ? Furthermore it takes up a significant amount of the display room on the VDUs thus limiting how much other info can be shown, e.g. requiring multiple pages to display the same info and and thus having to wait for "your" page to come up. Lastly, if I am honest I find it distracting, and I am not likely to be the only one, though I may be the only one brave enough to admit it ! Funnily enough just the other week me and some friends were discussing the accidental recording of programmes on the TV which have sign language in the bottom corner and if we then proceed to watch the programme or just delete it. Most of us did the latter because we find it distracting, or even, dare I say it, annoying.

Why would displaying someone doing sign language cost hundreds of thousands of pounds?

As I said, the screens were already being replaced long before it was decided to display sign language.

The new screens offer better quality screens for displaying information and can, in disruption display full colour pictures if needed.

If you disagree that this information can help people complete a journey, then I really hope that you never need anything where accessibility needs are required by your self if it costs money.

When this bsl was introduced onto the LNER screens there was many many complements from deaf people saying how beneficial this is.

I am not deaf and do not need the bsl information, but I do not let it bother me in the slightest. Same as when I see braille on the train or menus, it costs money to print and make it, but again I do not let it bother me.

 

[campdave]

Most of us did the latter because we find it distracting, or even, dare I say it, annoying.

Aren't you lucky to be in a position to find it annoying and not a necessity?

 

[AlterEgo]

I cannot agree. I would love to know how much it cost, I'd be amazed if it were not tens of thousands of pounds, more probably hundreds of thousands, and that's if the cost of the displays capable of accepting video is ignored.

You can always FOI it and come back to tell us.

 

[800001]

You can always FOI it and come back to tell us.

There was a FOI in 2025, I've attached the link to it below.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/british_sign_language_trail_on_l_2/response/3117260/attach/2/FOI644%20reply.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Thank you for correspondence of 14th July 2025 in which you requested the following

information:

My original request is

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/british_sign_language_trail_on_l__;

!!OyO3LyAn!8JbM3j9P9xSI0kwTLhq8gzwa_RFuS1ugGI91ru8mYShYzcuVbU8UB-4aNkPcjLjFt7IN-

H6UwAL6THtN3r2HmdKZzVGWt3q2DXSSmBsS-b8$ (see below):

Please could you provide any information, documents, presentations, reports, or surveys

which give background to this scheme, specifically covering:

1. The anticipated benefits of the BSL information screen trial, including how these are

balanced against the needs or priorities of other accessibility improvement schemes.

2. Any alternative approaches to improving accessibility that were considered prior to or

alongside this scheme.

3. The initial and ongoing costs associated with the BSL trial.

4. The criteria or methodology being used to assess the success or impact of the

scheme.

5. What consideration has been given to the impact on non-target users.We have processed your request under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000

(FOIA) and we can confirm that we hold this information.

1. The anticipated benefits of the BSL information screen trial, including how these are

balanced against the needs or priorities of other accessibility improvement schemes.

D/deaf people who use British Sign Language (BSL) do not have equal access to

information when they arrive at a train station. Important information, including platform

alterations and special notices could be missed by D/deaf people. LNER wanted to utilise

the technology we already had, our Customer Information Screens (CIS), to provide parity

of information for D/deaf people at our stations.

2. Any alternative approaches to improving accessibility that were considered prior to or

alongside this scheme.

The BSL on CIS project was delivered as part of LNER’s accessibility improvement

programme. This was a 3-year programme of accessibility improvements at our managed

stations that was a requirement of our contract with the Department for Transport. The

programme was approved by the Department for Transport.

3. The initial and ongoing costs associated with the BSL trial.

The initial Capital Expenditure and ongoing Operational Expenditure costs are contracted

amounts that are commercially sensitive.

We are withholding information regarding annual spend under Section 43(2) of the Act

(Commercial Interests) as we believe that disclosure would be prejudicial to the commercial

interests of LNER and our supplier. You have requested the renumeration figure paid to a

supplier for services while operating within a competitive trading environment. Such

information is not trivial and not within the public domain and we consider that our supplier’s

competitors would be highly likely to seize on such information to obtain a better

understanding of their terms, pricing strategy and operational details, use this information to

adjust their own terms and may price upwards or downwards as a result.

Disclosure would therefore risk distortion to normal market competition, damaging not only

our supplier’s future business opportunities but LNER’s ability to negotiate effectively in

future to obtain competitive prices. Disclosure may reduce competition and our ability to

obtain value for money in future procurements, as suppliers may decline to bid if they were

aware of the high risk of their commercial terms being placed into the public domain, and in

doing so prejudicing the supplier’s commercial advantage.The use of this exemption is subject to an assessment of the public interest in relation to

disclosure. The public interest here, as defined within ICO guidelines, means the public

good, not what is of interest to the public and not the personal interests of the requestor.

LNER recognises the need for openness and transparency within public authorities.

However, in this instance this is outweighed by the high probability of prejudice from

disclosure of such commercially sensitive information into the public domain, leading to

potential harm to the negotiating stance and other resources of both LNER and our

supplier. For example: more public money having to be spent on such arrangements in the

future because details of what may be acceptable for some types of arrangements have

been made available in advance.

4. The criteria or methodology being used to assess the success or impact of the scheme.

Please see the following YouTube video that shows the benefit of the scheme for a D/deaf

BSL user that was shared on LNER’s social media for Deaf Awareness Week:

5. What consideration has been given to the impact on non-target users

The designs were built to place the BSL signer in the bottom right corner to avoid covering

any of the static text and placed the text scrolling behind the signer’s head. The technology

for the Summary of Departure boards was improved to update dynamically as part of this

project which was a benefit for all users. Rather than having to wait for the screen to refresh

when it is next displayed, the most up to date information is now displayed immediately on

the screen.

 

[RailwayRookie]

Aren't you lucky to be in a position to find it annoying and not a necessity?

While there is a valid argument the money could be more 'efficiently' spent on other inclusive projects, the amount of consideration for adding sign language to the already existing boards is miniscule to the scale of planning, preparation and disruption of a platform alteration, step free access or level boarding project.

 

[800001]

I cannot agree. I would love to know how much it cost, I'd be amazed if it were not tens of thousands of pounds, more probably hundreds of thousands, and that's if the cost of the displays capable of accepting video is ignored. BTW, why else would they need those kind of displays ? Furthermore it takes up a significant amount of the display room on the VDUs thus limiting how much other info can be shown, e.g. requiring multiple pages to display the same info and and thus having to wait for "your" page to come up. Lastly, if I am honest I find it distracting, and I am not likely to be the only one, though I may be the only one brave enough to admit it ! Funnily enough just the other week me and some friends were discussing the accidental recording of programmes on the TV which have sign language in the bottom corner and if we then proceed to watch the programme or just delete it. Most of us did the latter because we find it distracting, or even, dare I say it, annoying.

And to show the benifits

British Sign Language at train stations welcome, says Deafblind UK

British Sign Language has been introduced on information boards at Peterborough train station.

www.bbc.co.uk

A charity said the introduction of British Sign Language (BSL) information boards at train stations was an important step "towards inclusion and increased accessibility".

Peterborough-based Deafblind UK said using public transport could be challenging and was "intensified by a lack of consistency across geographic location".

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) announced in March it would integrate (BSL) on digital departure screen at stations including Peterborough.

As it marked Deafblind Awareness Week, which runs until Sunday, the charity called better-trained station staff to support people with reduced sight and hearing.

 

[sh24]

Of all the things to complain about with the modern railway - of which there are many - this would be right down at the very bottom of the list.

 

[skyhigh]

I cannot agree. I would love to know how much it cost, I'd be amazed if it were not tens of thousands of pounds, more probably hundreds of thousands, and that's if the cost of the displays capable of accepting video is ignored.

It won't be anything near that. On both LNER stations and Northern units, this has been introduced because they already had hardware capable of displaying it.

The actual videos are computer generated from individual sections in a similar way that the announcements work in airports.

It's essentially a very cheap thing that's been done with a bit of accessibility funding. I doubt it would have paid for a single Harrington hump, and this has much bigger potential benefits.

 

[CeeJ]

Perhaps the need for BSL interpretation is due to the excessive announcements that are added on to each train departure board...

I can imagine they are quite helpful though.

 

[david1212]

.... People who are born deaf will learn BSL first then sometimes learn English as a second language. As such, a deaf person may not understand 'This train is currently being delayed due to a person being hit by a train earlier today' written on a PIS on a platform., but will understand however that sentence would be formulated in BSL. ....

People do learn written English but there are challenges with teaching deaf people a written and ordinarily spoken language. Something like 80,000 people learn BSL as their first language.

Once I think about this teaching English would be difficult. For a live event e.g. theatre I had always presumed sign language was just the essential words / a summary so as to keep up.

Where dot matrix displays have been replaced by screens anyway adding the sign language ought to be something AI can do using an existing algorithm so relatively little cost.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I understand the initial ignorance about BSL. I was suprised to learn that a lot of deaf people, especially those who are born deaf will know BSL as a first language and will not always know or will struggle to understand written English.

Having modern displays is great and this is an added benefit for improving accessibility.

 

[styles]

I cannot agree. I would love to know how much it cost, I'd be amazed if it were not tens of thousands of pounds, more probably hundreds of thousands, and that's if the cost of the displays capable of accepting video is ignored.

Well, RDG put out a tender for a network-wide solution and the contract value was up to £900k spread over three years: https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/069875-2025. Not that much in the context of a £26.5bn railway really.

Of course, once you've bought the screens and recorded the messages, the ongoing cost is going to be smaller than the capital cost.

BTW, why else would they need those kind of displays ? Furthermore it takes up a significant amount of the display room on the VDUs thus limiting how much other info can be shown, e.g. requiring multiple pages to display the same info and and thus having to wait for "your" page to come up. Lastly, if I am honest I find it distracting, and I am not likely to be the only one, though I may be the only one brave enough to admit it ! Funnily enough just the other week me and some friends were discussing the accidental recording of programmes on the TV which have sign language in the bottom corner and if we then proceed to watch the programme or just delete it. Most of us did the latter because we find it distracting, or even, dare I say it, annoying.

I barely even notice after a while, and I know a small amount of BSL (I actually struggled to find courses locally which teach the higher levels else I might have gone further with it).

I don't see the harm and if it empowers deaf people to use the railway more frequently, I'm all for it. There are other considerations on the cost front by the way, such as freeing up staff time during disruption where a deaf passenger may ask them about disruption and the staff have to connect to one of the online BSL services etc.

Of all the things to complain about with the modern railway - of which there are many - this would be right down at the very bottom of the list.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Justin Smith]

When this bsl was introduced onto the LNER screens there was many many complements from deaf people saying how beneficial this is.

Why, when the text is just above the "signer" was it so "beneficial" though ? That is the thing I cannot understand.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:01 ==

It won't be anything near that. On both LNER stations and Northern units, this has been introduced because they already had hardware capable of displaying it.

The actual videos are computer generated from individual sections in a similar way that the announcements work in airports.

It's essentially a very cheap thing that's been done with a bit of accessibility funding. I doubt it would have paid for a single Harrington hump, and this has much bigger potential benefits.

Like what ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:06 ==

I don't see the harm and if it empowers deaf people to use the railway more frequently, I'm all for it. There are other considerations on the cost front by the way, such as freeing up staff time during disruption where a deaf passenger may ask them about disruption and the staff have to connect to one of the online BSL services etc.

Why cannot the deaf person read what it says on the display ? Teletext (subtitles) was originally bought in as a service to the deaf and I can obviously see the point of that, but not the point of having someone doing sign language in the corner of a page of text.... Thus I cannot see why deaf people would be any more likely to need the staff to explain stuff to them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:11 ==

And to show the benifits : an important step "towards inclusion and increased accessibility".

Why ?
The only benefit I can see is it reminds people there are those with poor or no hearing, which a deaf charity would obviously approve of, but that is not the point of departure / arrival information panels.
Don't get me wrong if there was a significant number of people who found the "signed" displays made their journeys possible when they were not before then I'd approve of them, but I remain to be convinced that is actually the case.

 

[D1537]

Can you imagine someone complaining about the signers at big pop and rock concerts? "Having that person there cost me an extra 10p on my ticket!".

(Incidentally, those signers don't transcribe the lyrics exactly either, they modify it so that it's understandable for people fluent in BSL).

 

[NSE]

Why, when the text is just above the "signer" was it so "beneficial" though ? That is the thing I cannot understand.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:01 ==


Like what ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:06 ==


Why cannot the deaf person read what it says on the display ? Teletext (subtitles) was originally bought in as a service to the deaf and I can obviously see the point of that, but not the point of having someone doing sign language in the corner of a page of text.... Thus I cannot see why deaf people would be any more likely to need the staff to explain stuff to them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 21:11 ==


Why ?
The only benefit I can see is it reminds people there are those with poor or no hearing, which a deaf charity would obviously approve of, but that is not the point of departure / arrival information panels.
Don't get me wrong if there was a significant number of people who found the "signed" displays made their journeys possible when they were not before then I'd approve of them, but I remain to be convinced that is actually the case.

Why get bothered by something that doesn’t impact your journey but aided someone else’s? I’ve never needed a wheelchair ramp but I’m glad they exist. It helps people. There’s your justification.

 

[MikeWM]

Whatever the benefits may be, it is very unhelpful when you're trying to work out where to catch your connection leaving in 5 minutes time and the departures board is stuck on page 2 for 2-3 minutes while every single word is signed.

Fine if there are other boards nearby, but often it isn't easy to find such. Peterborough for example.

I'm all for adding accessibility to the railway in as many ways as possible, but it shouldn't be done in a way that significantly worsens the experience for everyone, and having a usable departures board so you know where to catch your train is pretty fundamental.

 

[800001]

Whatever the benefits may be, it is very unhelpful when you're trying to work out where to catch your connection leaving in 5 minutes time and the departures board is stuck on page 2 for 2-3 minutes while every single word is signed.

Fine if there are other boards nearby, but often it isn't easy to find such. Peterborough for example.

Maybe use the relevant operators app if you are that desperate to search for platform?

Ask a member of staff etc?

We have options to assist us, people who use Bsl in the main don't.

I've never experienced a screen stuck on same page for several minutes, more like 1 minute and then it changes.

 

[Harratt4]

I've never experienced a screen stuck on same page for several minutes, more like 1 minute and then it changes.

I have, the “next train to” board at my station is on page 2/3 for about 60% of the time.

Funnily enough it doesn’t feature a BSL interpreter.

The BSL interpreted screens I have seen (which of course may not be the same as the ones the OP has endured) have the BSL guy in the bottom right hand corner which otherwise would have been dead space. So removing them wouldn’t help anyone).

 

[800001]

I have, the “next train to” board at my station is on page 2/3 for about 60% of the time.

Funnily enough it doesn’t feature a BSL interpreter.

The BSL interpreted screens I have seen (which of course may not be the same as the ones the OP has endured) have the BSL guy in the bottom right hand corner which otherwise would have been dead space. So removing them wouldn’t help anyone).

Maybe I'm just been lucky when I look at the information screens

 

[Harratt4]

Maybe I'm just been lucky when I look at the information screens

Im certainly unlucky, I sometimes joke that being able to guarantee the screen won’t be on page 1 when I am rushing for a train is my super power!

And on no occasion has that been because of the presence of a BSL interpreter!