Why is Edge Hill closed on Sundays?

[lh33]

As title says, I've been looking online for a while but nowhere seems to have an answer. A well used train station in the middle of a big city being closed on a Sunday has always baffled me

 

[EYFanatic]

Low historic weekend passenger demand if I remember correctly

 

[Sorcerer]

Edge Hill is hardly a well used station in the middle of a big city in my experience. Aside from a new Northern services pretty much no other trains stop there. It's great for watching trains go by though.

 

[ivorytoast28]

It seems the trend in recent years is to start serving more stations that used to be closed on Sundays, there have been a few openings, agree this should be one considered along with the rose hill marple line

 

[507 001]

Low historic weekend passenger demand if I remember correctly

Demand is hardly better through the week.

Doesn’t help that it’s a barren, desolate, run down shadow of its former self.

 

[A S Leib]

this should be one considered along with the rose hill marple line

Aren't there still issues with Northern staffing on Sundays in the western half which should be resolved before running more routes?

 

[childwallblues]

A lot of students use the station during term time to access the university which is about a 10 minute walk. Nothing happens in the surronding area on a Sunday.

 

[Djgr]

This probably awaits Merseytravel taking more control over the non third rail local services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 08:21 ==

A lot of students use the station during term time to access the university which is about a 10 minute walk. Nothing happens in the surronding area on a Sunday.

Edge Hill is in the middle of a city but not in the middle of a city centre.

As comparison consider Manors, Bordesley, Ardwick

 

[KevinTurvey]

As far as Edge Hill goes it is very close to 86, 80 & 79 bus routes, so I guess most people would either get the bus or even walk into town - its only just over a mile.

Most of the housing stock in the area however, has been replaced, so I imagine a lot more people live around Edge Hill station than 20 years ago.

The big problem here is Northern currently provide a Sunday service with two hour gaps, which is not attractive to passengers. Lets hope they can sort the overtime/Sunday working issues as it seems crazy on summer Sundays trains would be filled if they ran more services to St Helens, Wigan, Preston & Blackpool, look at the M6. I think a half hourly service to Wigan was proposed pre-covid-19.

Even just going to St Helens by bus from Liverpool can be an hours grind.

 

[bramling]

This probably awaits Merseytravel taking more control over the non third rail local services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 08:21 ==


Edge Hill is in the middle of a city but not in the middle of a city centre.

As comparison consider Manors, Bordesley, Ardwick

It isn’t as badly used as those three. Whenever I’ve used Edge Hill there’s always been a modest number of people there. Wouldn’t call it busy, but I’ve never seen it as a ghost town.

 

[Taunton]

Demand is hardly better through the week.

Doesn’t help that it’s a barren, desolate, run down shadow of its former self.

It was desolate in the 1960s, too.

 

[Starmill]

The station is absolutely filthy, it's difficult to access over uneven ground and steps, it's poorly lit and it's very little used on any day of the week. The biggest custom is usually people fare evading, which is very easy, if you get there from say Bryn without a ticket, lots of people leave and walk the last part. It's actually a surprise it managed to stay open at all. The railway would definitely be better off never stopping there. Luckily that's not very likely.

 

[Northerngirl]

Northern Rail, dare I say more.

It's the usual run down station that people don't want to use, so it gets less, so even less people use it. The area is hardly empty very similar to many merseyrail stations, but infrequent trains, less flexible tickets, and general degradation of the station, people will just get the bus that's 10 minutes slower but runs all the time.

 

[childwallblues]

The station is absolutely filthy, it's difficult to access over uneven ground and steps, it's poorly lit and it's very little used on any day of the week. The biggest custom is usually people fare evading, which is very easy, if you get there from say Bryn without a ticket, lots of people leave and walk the last part. It's actually a surprise it managed to stay open at all. The railway would definitely be better off never stopping there. Luckily that's not very likely.

For a person that comes from Bolton you seem to know a lot about the Edge Hill area.The area is not actually run down it is surrounded by small industrial units, a shopping centre and two modern housing estates. It is also the closest railway station to Wavertree Lnnovation Park for services .which come via Mossley Hill
With regard to fare dodgers all Northern stations which are not barried including those in the Greater Manchester area suffer a certain amount of chaners.
Not previously mentioned is that bus services 26 and 27 pass the entrance and are circular services stating/finishing in the City Centre known locally as THE BELT. The 27 passes Anfield Football Ground. Ant to an eariier poster route 80 rund nowhere Edge HillStation but the 78 does

 

[Starmill]

For a person that comes from Bolton you seem to know a lot about the Edge Hill area.The area is not actually run down it is surrounded by small industrial units, a shopping centre and two modern housing estates. It is also the closest railway station to Wavertree Lnnovation Park for services .which come via Mossley Hill
With regard to fare dodgers all Northern stations which are not barried including those in the Greater Manchester area suffer a certain amount of chaners.
Not previously mentioned is that bus services 26 and 27 pass the entrance and are circular services stating/finishing in the City Centre known locally as THE BELT. The 27 passes Anfield Football Ground. Ant to an eariier poster route 80 rund nowhere Edge HillStation but the 78 does

I don't come from Bolton, I set my location there in response to another poster who made a joke about who'd want to live in Bolton

You do seem to have assumed I was saying it's in an unpleasant part of town though, which it isn't.

 

[bramling]

For a person that comes from Bolton you seem to know a lot about the Edge Hill area.The area is not actually run down it is surrounded by small industrial units, a shopping centre and two modern housing estates. It is also the closest railway station to Wavertree Lnnovation Park for services .which come via Mossley Hill
With regard to fare dodgers all Northern stations which are not barried including those in the Greater Manchester area suffer a certain amount of chaners.
Not previously mentioned is that bus services 26 and 27 pass the entrance and are circular services stating/finishing in the City Centre known locally as THE BELT. The 27 passes Anfield Football Ground. Ant to an eariier poster route 80 rund nowhere Edge HillStation but the 78 does

I definitely agree that Edge Hill absolutely isn’t the equivalent of Ardwick or Bordesley which both give the atmosphere of being situated in a post-industrial apocalypse.

Edge Hill is simply an inner-city suburban station, and its usage is commensurate with that. The station seems perfectly fine to me, if anything the bigger issue is that it emerges onto a busy road which isn’t particularly pleasant for walking, but the station is reasonably accessible by road which may make up for this. It isn’t the busiest station for sure, but it seems to tick over.

 

[35B]

I was a student living off Smithdown Road in the 1990s. It would never have occurred to me to use the train into or out of town rather than get the bus or, more likely, walk. And if coming bac from Wigan/Manchester directions, it wouldn't have occurred to me to plan to go that way rather than into Lime St and then out (and when I lived at the now demolished Carnatic Halls, that was also true of Mossley Hill). Given that it's not exactly near the Technology Park, I'm not surprised that traffic's too low to justify opening up at weekends

 

[Bletchleyite]

You do seem to have assumed I was saying it's in an unpleasant part of town though, which it isn't.

It used to be in a fairly manky area but the pushing-out of the city centre due to raising land prices and gentrification generally has made it no longer so. I think I'd have said the area it is in would in the 1990s have been about the same as Kirkdale or Brunswick (the latter of course wasn't there in the 90s). The latter has of course improved somewhat too, formerly it was the fairly barren edge of Toxteth, whereas the area around Kirkdale* is still a barren dump.

I wonder how many of its visitors are people who don't realise that the university is in fact in Ormskirk? (It has the name because it was once in Edge Hill).

As to how that applies to the question in the subject line, probably because the service pattern is largely still the same as it was in the 1990s when there wasn't any Sunday shopping and in any case people going from there would get the bus to the city centre, not the train - thus very similar to Bordesley and the likes. The situation has changed (unlike Bordesley) but the railway hasn't. Ardwick of course is still manky but I'd expect that will start building up with flats pretty soon.

Nearby Roby didn't have a Sunday service in the 90s by the way but now does.

* I've used Bank Hall and Kirkdale a couple of times recently as if you run you can shave 15 minutes off a Southport line to Ormskirk journey compared to changing at Sandhills, or on a Sunday you can save half an hour.

 

[MikeWM]

Nearby Roby didn't have a Sunday service in the 90s by the way but now does.

Yes, Sunday service at Roby started at some point between 1997 and 2007 (the only two timetables I have immediately to hand).

In 2007 Eccleston Park and Bryn were still closed on Sundays too - not sure when services started calling on Sundays to either of those. Maybe the key question here is why Edge Hill didn't get a Sunday service at the same time they did. (I don't know the answer...)

 

[Starmill]

Yes, Sunday service at Roby started at some point between 1997 and 2007 (the only two timetables I have immediately to hand).

In 2007 Eccleston Park and Bryn were still closed on Sundays too - not sure when services started calling on Sundays to either of those. Maybe the key question here is why Edge Hill didn't get a Sunday service at the same time they did. (I don't know the answer...)

Probably for similar reasons Patricroft, Humphrey Park, Fairfield, Flixton, Atherton, Worplesdon, Featherstone, Prittlewell, Ryder Brow and so on didn't. Humphrey Park, Fairfield and Ryder Brow still don't today, along with others nearby.

 

[507 001]

Yes, Sunday service at Roby started at some point between 1997 and 2007 (the only two timetables I have immediately to hand).

It was post 1999. We moved to Huyton in 99 and (having had my memory jogged by this thread) can vaguely remember Roby not having a Sunday service.

If I had to guess I’d say it gained a Sunday service whilst I was in high school somewhere between 2003-2008.

 

[childwallblues]

I think the answer to the original question is that most of the passengers who travel through the station during the week dont go that way on a Sunday.

 

[styles]

Buses leave from the station every few minutes even on Sundays. They're £2 a journey, compared to £2.60 on the train. There are not many people making journeys from here on Sundays.

 

[Djgr]

It used to be in a fairly manky area but the pushing-out of the city centre due to raising land prices and gentrification generally has made it no longer so. I think I'd have said the area it is in would in the 1990s have been about the same as Kirkdale or Brunswick (the latter of course wasn't there in the 90s). The latter has of course improved somewhat too, formerly it was the fairly barren edge of Toxteth, whereas the area around Kirkdale* is still a barren dump.

Gentrification is probably currently focused on the Baltic Triangle (hence Liverpool Baltic) and the area between the Isle of Man Passenger Terminal and Everton's new stadium (aka Liverpool Waters).

 

[urbophile]

I didn't realise it was closed on Sundays. But Edge Hill is much less of a wasteland than it used to be. It is not so much gentrifying as re-establishing the population density; the expansion of the 'Knowledge Quarter' eastwards will no doubt lead to gentrification sooner or later. I suspect the reason it is not used much is down to its nearness to the city centre, as well as the rather off-putting walk down a long uneven ramp to reach the station from the street. During the day, and peak hours, it gets a reasonably frequent service, but unless you are using a pass or Saveaway ticket it is much cheaper and convenient to get a bus into town. It really needs incorporating into Merseyrail and the train service diverting through the Wapping tunnel to serve Central and other destinations.

 

[35B]

I didn't realise it was closed on Sundays. But Edge Hill is much less of a wasteland than it used to be. It is not so much gentrifying as re-establishing the population density; the expansion of the 'Knowledge Quarter' eastwards will no doubt lead to gentrification sooner or later. I suspect the reason it is not used much is down to its nearness to the city centre, as well as the rather off-putting walk down a long uneven ramp to reach the station from the street. During the day, and peak hours, it gets a reasonably frequent service, but unless you are using a pass or Saveaway ticket it is much cheaper and convenient to get a bus into town. It really needs incorporating into Merseyrail and the train service diverting through the Wapping tunnel to serve Central and other destinations.

I don't follow the logic. What journey options are being hurt by this, in the real world? Liverpool is well served by buses, and they cover much of the city centre - in many ways more conveniently than the train, whether it's Lime St, Central or anywhere else.

 

[urbophile]

I don't follow the logic. What journey options are being hurt by this, in the real world? Liverpool is well served by buses, and they cover much of the city centre - in many ways more conveniently than the train, whether it's Lime St, Central or anywhere else.

If Edge Hill closed, not many people would be inconvenienced. Conversely, if the train services that serve it were improved, made more frequent and regular, and preferably incorporated into Merseyrail, large numbers of people to the east, north-east and south of the city would be attracted to use the trains to the great benefit of the environment. Edge Hill and its catchment would be at least slightly better off from all this; if people started to see it as their local metro station and not just as some kind of steam age anachronism, much more than slightly.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If Edge Hill closed, not many people would be inconvenienced.

You're probably not wrong. However, can see the media headlines, already... "Rail forum calls for closure of 196 year old local station".

 

[styles]

You're probably not wrong. However, can see the media headlines, already... "Rail forum calls for closure of 196 year old local station".

If Northern wanted to mothball it they could just sell the ticket office to someone who can start an access dispute with Network Rail regarding the access road.

 

[EYFanatic]

If Northern wanted to mothball it they could just sell the ticket office to someone who can start an access dispute with Network Rail regarding the access road.

Is that a reference to the situation when Dent reopened on the S&C or our favourite English folk in Scotland?