Should physical barriers be installed to prevent access to platforms shortly before trains depart?

[Ballyheigue]

Moderator note: split from

GWR two passengers left behind at Paddington

Has anyone else seen that viral social media video of two women running down the platform with suitcases getting to the door only to be told they can't board? Despite others boarding at that exact moment. The train was likely late to depart. A LOT of people on social media are saying it was a...

www.railforums.co.uk

What there needs to be is very simple, a barrier to the platform that closes 2 minutes before the train is about to depart.

Stop the lazy late comers and they'll soon learn to be on time!

 

[michael74]

What there needs to be is very simple, a barrier to the platform that closes 2 minutes before the train is about to depart. Stop the lazy late comers and they'll soon learn to be on time!

You can't put a barrier up on Pt1 it's too narrow and with too many access points.

 

[Acathater]

Moderator note: split from

GWR two passengers left behind at Paddington

Has anyone else seen that viral social media video of two women running down the platform with suitcases getting to the door only to be told they can't board? Despite others boarding at that exact moment. The train was likely late to depart. A LOT of people on social media are saying it was a...

www.railforums.co.uk

What there needs to be is very simple, a barrier to the platform that closes 2 minutes before the train is about to depart.

Stop the lazy late comers and they'll soon learn to be on time!

And just where do you propose that passengers wait for trains?

 

[yorksrob]

They used to have exactly such barriers at Charing Cross.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Euston has this.

 

[Class15]

Moderator note: split from

GWR two passengers left behind at Paddington

Has anyone else seen that viral social media video of two women running down the platform with suitcases getting to the door only to be told they can't board? Despite others boarding at that exact moment. The train was likely late to depart. A LOT of people on social media are saying it was a...

www.railforums.co.uk

What there needs to be is very simple, a barrier to the platform that closes 2 minutes before the train is about to depart.

Stop the lazy late comers and they'll soon learn to be on time!

Absolutely not.

 

[JohnRegular]

Think they may even have them at Paddington P8/P9 (whichever pair is ungated).

 

[speedy1]

If we are to be treated like cattle, I would expect all fares to be repriced to cattle class

 

[Harpo]

Unworkable on any island platform at a terminal never mind at a through station. New Street would be, er, interesting.

 

[MarkyT]

Unless the particular platforms are very wide, having individual controllable gate lines for each long-distance terminal platform pair at a very busy station like Paddington can be undesirably restrictive, as you're placing them at a narrow point at the platform head. A wide shared gate line can much better absorb the peak pulses in flow as each train arrives, and provides a marshalling area inside the gates for queues to form, thus clearing the platforms more quickly. The arrangement clearly loses the ability to close platforms selectively briefly before each departure. Paddington has traditionally discouraged 'late runners' by removing the passenger information screen details for each train before departure, but the information remains on apps which many people use today.

 

[Class15]

I think if this happened it would be the final straw for me using the railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think if this happened it would be the final straw for me using the railway.

Best not use Euston then.

 

[HSTEd]

I'm not sure what the advantage of something like this is, especially at railway termini.

The railway has total control of the public timetable, they can set the departure time to whatever they want.

Is this just a method of cheating on journey times by setting the train departure time later than it actually is? (in terms of the time when people can arrive and board the train)

Most passengers aren't really interested in the time the train physically leaves the station, they care about the latest time at which they can board it.

 

[Class15]

Best not use Euston then.

I have never turned up at Euston before a train’s left and been stopped. My record is 1.5 minutes before departure, and was absolutely fine.

Railway timetables should not show departure times you can’t get to over a minute before. Under a minute, fine. Over a minute, even 2 minutes, is absurd, and is similar to trains departing early which is rightly criticised.

 

[johnnym24]

On the contrary, I think we need a government minister in charge of railways who is empowered to tell the railway that they will accept passengers up until the departure time. Upon departure time, they may then close the doors and the train may leave. Anything else is just contrary to passenger interests.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have never turned up at Euston before a train’s left and been stopped. My record is 1.5 minutes before departure, and was absolutely fine.

WMT I guess? Avanti absolutely do close the gate at two minutes, though they tend not to close it in peoples' faces.

 

[Class15]

WMT I guess? Avanti absolutely do close the gate at two minutes, though they tend not to close it in peoples' faces.

Avanti.

 

[mmh]

Unworkable on any island platform at a terminal never mind at a through station.

It's how London Waterloo, Charing Cross, London Bridge and Euston terminal platforms were worked for decades until ticket barriers were installed. (And probably the others that I didn't use.) Euston still has gates on some platforms.

 

[Harpo]

It's how London Waterloo, Charing Cross, London Bridge and Euston terminal platforms were worked for decades until ticket barriers were installed. (And probably the others that I didn't use.)

There are lots of factors besides gates that make historic practices unsatisfactory now.

Euston still has gates on some platforms.

Nothing about Euston offers best-in-class practice to any other station. The gatelines are a contributor to many of its issues as a station where the customer side is inadequate for its style of train operation and despatch. And that’s just in unperturbed operation.

 

[Route115?]

This would only work at stations with one or at most two entrances to platforms and would be less feasible at stations such as Sheffield and Newcastle to give but two examples. You could have platform screens if all rolling stock had doors in the same position (so in other words you couldn't). You would also need staff to supervise the barriers.

You would probably need separate gates for each pair of platforms which would be expensive and require more space unless you had an adequate holding area between the ticket gates and separate barriers to each pair of platforms. Would you get localised overcrowding between the gates and the barriers at Victoria SE?

An example: At Paddington it would be impossible to control access to Platform 1 but you could have barriers to Platforms 2/3 and 4/5. You would need a second set of barriers at the western exit. What about stairs and escalators? Barrier control might work at the Southern platforms at London Bridge (I'm not sure about Plat 1-9). You would have to limit access before the escalator on safety grounds. You then would need to allow 30 seconds for passengers to clear - that would require some judgement.

There is then a question of what happens if a train arrives on the adjacent platform immediately before a train departs. You could hold arriving passengers for a short while - if its only a for a few seconds it might not matter, but any longer would be unpopular. At London termini in the 70s it may not have been much of an issue - there were not many contra-flow passengers at stations such a Cannon St, but it may be more of an issue now.

Arguably powered doors reduces the needs for barriers on safety grounds, although there are obviously still potential issues with sliding door stock.

 

[The exile]

On the contrary, I think we need a government minister in charge of railways who is empowered to tell the railway that they will accept passengers up until the departure time. Upon departure time, they may then close the doors and the train may leave. Anything else is just contrary to passenger interests.

That would temporarily fix the problem until people got used to it, then it would all start over again. Some people are just “last minute” people and we ll sometimes miscalculate. Others are late by force of circumstance, but whenever you set the cut off, there will always be those who are just too late.

 

[stevieinselby]

Stop the lazy late comers and they'll soon learn to be on time!

Is there anyone you don't hate and want to make life more difficult and unpleasant for?

 

[johnnym24]

That would temporarily fix the problem until people got used to it, then it would all start over again. Some people are just “last minute” people and we ll sometimes miscalculate. Others are late by force of circumstance, but whenever you set the cut off, there will always be those who are just too late.

On the contrary, if I turn up for the 20:00 departure at 20:00 and 30 seconds, and it's leaving that's my own fault and I can deal with that. I knew the departure time was advertised as 20:00 so should have been on the train by then.

However when I've bought a ticket for the 20:00 and I turn up at 19:58 and 30 seconds and I'm denied boarding it feels like the railway staff have made up a reason not to let me on because they would prefer to run empty trains - it's easier for them with no pesky passengers.

On the whole, if we're going to have a nationalised railway rather than one maximised for profit (which I agree with) I think there needs to be a new approach, someone at the top who makes decisions to optimise things for passengers benefit, not for the convenience of the staff running the operation.

 

[Kite159]

On the contrary, if I turn up for the 20:00 departure at 20:00 and 30 seconds, and it's leaving that's my own fault and I can deal with that. I knew the departure time was advertised as 20:00 so should have been on the train by then.

However when I've bought a ticket for the 20:00 and I turn up at 19:58 and 30 seconds and I'm denied boarding it feels like the railway staff have made up a reason not to let me on because they would prefer to run empty trains - it's easier for them with no pesky passengers.

On the whole, if we're going to have a nationalised railway rather than one maximised for profit (which I agree with) I think there needs to be a new approach, someone at the top who makes decisions to optimise things for passengers benefit, not for the convenience of the staff running the operation.

In that case the train is advertised in the public facing timetable as departing at 19:58 but in the working timetable as departing at 20:00.

 

[The exile]

In that case the train is advertised in the public facing timetable as departing at 19:58 but in the working timetable as departing at 20:00.

“Oh, it’ll be alright - that train always leaves 2 minutes late”

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 13:19 ==

On the contrary, if I turn up for the 20:00 departure at 20:00 and 30 seconds, and it's leaving that's my own fault and I can deal with that. I knew the departure time was advertised as 20:00 so should have been on the train by then.

However when I've bought a ticket for the 20:00 and I turn up at 19:58 and 30 seconds and I'm denied boarding it feels like the railway staff have made up a reason not to let me on because they would prefer to run empty trains - it's easier for them with no pesky passengers.

On the whole, if we're going to have a nationalised railway rather than one maximised for profit (which I agree with) I think there needs to be a new approach, someone at the top who makes decisions to optimise things for passengers benefit, not for the convenience of the staff running the operation.

90 seconds is, I agree, excessive. However, the 30/40 applied by the TOCs I use is within a reasonable margin (though I accept I have thought otherwise on occasions trains have left before my nose- until sensible reflection cut in).

 

[johnnym24]

In that case the train is advertised in the public facing timetable as departing at 19:58 but in the working timetable as departing at 20:00.

I am fine with this. But that isn't what happens, is it?

 

[HSTEd]

“Oh, it’ll be alright - that train always leaves 2 minutes late”

The trains should operate to the timetable, if people don't arrive at the scheduled time that is their problem.

But timetables should not be misleading as to the reality on the ground - especially as the railway loves to use journey times based on said timetable for marketing purposes. Journey times that are not actually achievable because the railway refuses to let people board at the times implied by them.

 

[Bald Rick]

On the contrary, I think we need a government minister in charge of railways who is empowered to tell the railway that they will accept passengers up until the departure time. Upon departure time, they may then close the doors and the train may leave. Anything else is just contrary to passenger interests.

The rail minister fully understands that the time advertised for train departure is the time the train departs, ie the time the wheels roll.

 

[Tester]

The rail minister fully understands that the time advertised for train departure is the time the train departs, ie the time the wheels roll.

Which is not how it should be. Time of wheels rolling is a purely internal operating matter.

But we have been here before.....

 

[johnnym24]

Which is not how it should be. Time of wheels rolling is a purely internal operating matter.

But we have been here before.....

Agreed.